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Why the fuck does Leblanc's chain cost a measly 40 mana?

Gosh Darn··134 votes·5,506 views

Now that she's the biggest lane bully mage/assassin in the game you'd think she'd need to choose between waveclear and beating the shit out of her enemy laner. Her E costs 40 mana at all ranks and deals 120 + (180% AP) damage at level 1 with her passive. I honestly preferred her 100-0ing enemies mid-lategame, at least I could waste 3k on an MR item and deal with her. Now it's impossible to survive laning phase with her with 90% of mid laners. You can rush a negatron or sceptre and become useless for your team and still she's got the power to bully you and set you back further.

Double the mana cost of her E or make it actually somewhat possible to break the tether. The only way to break that bullshit is to malphite ult out of it. Her kit has 0 counterplay besides building MR, and that wasn't a huge deal before she became a massive bully before you can even purchase MR. None of her abilities will ever be dodged assuming the Leblanc is even slightly decent. The chain being able to break doesn't even matter because it has a massive 1,000 range. The only one that can break it is the Leblanc who casted it if she wants to leave the fight.

113 Comments

TheI3igDaddy28 votes

Because mana-gating champs is an archaic notion. :^)

Verdade7 votes

Janna uhmm? 150/80/110/100 Xerath UNLIMITED PO... sigh 120/110/80/100

Anidan14 votes

Meanwhile, Xerath does have a mana regain mechanic baked into his kit that allows you to run for quite a while before you're actually OOM.

Yes, mana management has been toned down severely pretty much across the board in League. There's only a few champions that are really mana-gated anymore, compared to "the majority" in Seasons 1, 2, and most of 3 where mana management was a much more essential skill for not just mid laners, but every lane and role.

Verdade3 votes

High mana costs shouldn't be justified by mana regen passive. If you think about it, he's better off without his passive than with it, as it only forces him to go too close.

Look at Vel'koz, his passive rewards him when he autoattacks, Xerath's punishes him

Anidan4 votes

I think it depends. For Xerath I can actually see why they gave it to him. It exposes him to some level of risk, yes, but look at the range of his spells: if he had a way to gain mana back that let him maintain that range then how do a lot of the mid laners attempt to deal with him besides overextending to Hell and back just to damage him? It forces some level of interaction, and while that's not great for the fantasy which he attempts to embody, it's good for forcing some level of interaction with the enemy besides endlessly poking them outside of their own sphere of influence. His functions as much for him as it does for the enemy and gives them some sort of window to act against him without having to jump into his zone. Do I think it justifies the cost of the spells themselves? Maybe not, but if he didn't have something to force him closer then he'd simply never let the enemy interact with them and that's terrible from the enemy's perspective. It's worth remembering that his fantasy theme feels really good to play as when it's working well, but it tends to feel very terrible to play against if he never has to expose himself to real risk other than the longest of dives or really wide flanks.

Lissandra would be a much better argument for a champion whose passive doesn't justify the cost of their spells. She has a free spell every so often, but due to that her spell costs are generally pretty freaking high across the board because if they weren't then you wouldn't feel good about using your free spell on it, and if her spell costs were low then that defeats the point of the passive at all then, doesn't it? Her passive actively works against her own balance as a result, because that's all it does. It doesn't force interaction with the enemy, because her sphere of influence is small enough that she has to interact with them anyway, and it doesn't help her mana issues because its design actively encourages those mana costs in the first place.

There has to be a risk vs. reward balance kept for a champion's design, and if you let Xerath stay in his comfort zone then he's pretty safe given the elements of his kit. He has pretty long range, good damage, a hard CC, but the trade off is that to sustain all of this he has to expose himself to the enemy until later in the game when items can provide that sustain for him. Lissandra already has the risk element which is why she has more CC and direct survivability, but lower damage and range as her trade-off. Her reward for that? A passive that actively works against her own balance.

Verdade1 votes

Design was to force him into AA range so he has counterplay. However, Vel'koz has even more range, kill pressure, damage and waveclear while having much cheaper abilities. Despite all this he has counterplay and he's very balanced.

An Undead brat4 votes

Vel'Koz doesn't have more range nor waveclear.

Dirty Sion Main1 votes

I really hope you're joking there bud.

AgentBlack3 votes

He's right though. Putting aside some situational splitting shenanigans with Vel'Koz's Q, Xerath's spells have more range across the board, and his primary waveclear (Q) has more damage and a lower cooldown than Vel'koz's W.

Verdade1 votes

Xerath's waveclear is much worse, W has 2 charges that instaclear wave and both come back before next wave hits. Also he can perfectly clear since lvl 3. Add the fact its cheaper on mana, and Vel'koz doesnt give up his poke to waveclear. VK clears the wave and still can use his main poke tool, unlike Xerath who can do only one thing. As far range goes, splitting Q aren't shenanigans, its legit mechanic and good VK's Q should be as reliable to hit as Xerath's. And this comes fromfrom long time VK main

AgentBlack1 votes

Vel'Koz's W recharge is still way longer than Xerath's Q cooldown with less damage, and Xerath can poke or waveclear with W as well. Also, two Vel'Koz Ws costs more mana than a Xerath Q, and mana doesn't matter for either of them after lane phase.

Verdade1 votes

Except Xerath can't possibly clear the wave with single Q

Auz the Ripper1 votes

You can if you're building pure AP seraph's/rabadon's/morello's It's a bit expensive but makes every spell devestating

Dirty Sion Main1 votes

Apologies, didn't read the 'more' part of his comment, mb

Synnx715 votes

Riot " We added counterplay" Rofl even if LeBroken lands E on you, both of you could walk at the fucking opposite directions and the tether still WON'T break

But obviously Leblanc mains : "git gud wood trash" Dunno if their balance team are legit idiots , incompetent, or just right trollers .

Cosmic Warper2 votes

{quoted}

Riot " We added counterplay" Rofl even if LeBroken lands E on you, both of you could walk at the fucking opposite directions and the tether still WON'T break

But obviously Leblanc mains : "git gud wood trash" Dunno if their balance team are legit idiots , incompetent, or just right trollers .

all 3... they let camille into the game KNOWING that she is overtuned to fuck, went through win the rengar rework even though every person told them that his W is busted, and buffed lethality BEFORE nerfing jayce and kha zix...they also buffed edge of night to make it the best ad item in the game for no fucking reason

FuzzyLumps2 votes

They should reduce the slow. They removed Karma's third tick, and her tether does less damage by far and is harder to complete. I know it's not a skill shot but the damage on LeBlanc is insane so it shouldn't be that easy to complete.

BIackfox7 votes

Because it's a skill shot and it's your fault for getting hit by it

Gosh Darn26 votes

It's got a stupid fat hitbox radius and she can jump right on top of you with her W. If you miss chains as Leblanc you're doing something wrong.

MrHaZeYo5 votes

Wait she wasn't the biggest Mid lane bully before?

Gosh Darn3 votes

She was difficult to deal with but her damage wasn't this crazy. You actually had a chance to hit 6 and build negatron before being completely zoned by farm or killed with 2 procs of her E. Swain, Diana, and more used to be able to farm somewhat safely and hit 6 to destroy her but now even they don't want to lane against her.

MrHaZeYo4 votes

I think people forget how strong she was before, at lvl 2 I could kill you, not even a huge deal.

Pale Pirate3 votes

The problem isn't her E cost, the problem is that she now always goes item 3165 . Normally she runs out of mana, but as every champion that buys it, she suddenly become almost manaless.

Rock MD7 votes

[{quoted}](name=0 oxros piratis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uZUGuVV5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-05T20:19:59.347+0000)

The problem isn't her E cost, the problem is that she now always goes item 3165 . Normally she runs out of mana, but as every champion that buys it, she suddenly become almost manaless.

Uh...

LeBlanc's been rushing Morellonomicon ever since Athene's got nerfed as the go-to mana regen item.

And even then she was manaless because she would run Athene's -> DFG

Pale Pirate2 votes

That was one way the meta way to build her. But now it's almost mandatory.

Spice POWAH14 votes

part of item 3165 being almost mandatory is the fact that it's so good it's nearly core on literally every mage. -Great build path/cost -20%cdr -100AP -Flat Mana -Mana Restoration -GW no one cares about because of all the other things

Pale Pirate3 votes

Pretty much this.

edit: You forgot to mention the relatively low cost.

Spice POWAH2 votes

I put great build path/cost, I guess you thought I meant combine cost? kinda makes me want those other books from BMB updated and with sharper niches. first make the 20% cdr a named unique passive, then adjust stats as needed, y'know?

Sîndragösa1 votes

Anti heal is also huge deal, and since every (almost) mage gets it that makes regen champs worse. Eg : Mundo, Olaf, Swain, Vlad -> very hard to survive if you are low, because once you are tagged with grievious wounds you can't heal

Spice POWAH2 votes

It's true that the GW actually matters, but i'm saying that people don't go " the enemy team has Vladimir Soraka Darius DrMundo and a Draven lifestealing 500 hp per auto, I need to counter it" they go "i want 100 Ap and mana during fights and CDR" so rather than being a situational counter like item 3033 it's a core item that just so happens to have GW attached to it.

LBmyBB3 votes

Um, get out of the chain range, you do know it breaks right?

Gosh Darn12 votes

The chain has 1,000 range and Leblanc casts it when standing on top of you because of her distortion. Even Fizz, Riven, etc can't break it, it's really only to keep Leblanc from casting it and immediately blinking back to her pre-dash location. Leblanc is the only one that can break the chain.

Calypsó4 votes

{quoted}

Um, get out of the chain range, you do know it breaks right?

LOL. Clearly you have never faced a LB before. Or you haven't played League of Legends. Once you get hit by her chain, it's almost inevitable unless you burn flash to get out of it.

LBmyBB2 votes

Actually I'm a lb main, so take my word for it when I say you can break it without flash

Redhood Mon3 votes

of course yes item 3157

TheGoomyGamer1 votes

{quoted}

Um, get out of the chain range, you do know it breaks right?

Have you seen the range on her E On Ekko I used my E and my summoner 4 and still didn't break the chain BULLSHIRT edit:lol that was a typo but I'm gonna keep it its funny

LBmyBB1 votes

Well if she lands it that's your fault. It is extremely hard the land them

TheGoomyGamer3 votes

{quoted}

Well if she lands it that's your fault. It is extremely hard the land them

Not if she can W in your face then instant chain you.

WoonStruck3 votes

Because Riot's balance department has been run by toddlers since season 4

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Interesting way of looking at it. I imagine it's because balance isn't the way you prefer?

WoonStruck2 votes

Its not even that I don't prefer it.

Its that several things in the game don't function as they should.

25% of the roster don't make trade-offs in their kit or with purchases, while the rest all get shafted in everything they do relative to those 25%.

This stems from Mastery issues, Keystone issues, itemization issues, and champion issues. Riot's balance is entirely out of sync with itself this season, and even last season.

bbQsauçe3 votes

[deleted]

notice me Sin pi3 votes

at least he has to jump in and do the job, or he gets $#!@%ed himself.

LB doesnt necessarily have to jump in, and even if she does she can easily escape from it

Not xPeke4 votes

To be fair he has less mana, doesn't build extra mana from items, and being able to "spam" Q on isolate targets is his identity. Kinda a moot point :p.

Sîndragösa3 votes

I remember when she had her silence. Honnestly the biggest drawback of her old kit was that she had to Q then proc it. Now she E you once and you are dead or almost if she is fed. And now she is better waveclear with Q spreading to people :s

I hate that bitch, I always have hated her. Even in the days Kassadin was 98% banned I hated Leblanc even more :s

Meanwhile Lissandra has a absurd 85 mana Q at lv 1 because she has a "mana regen passive". What about making balance and giving her a real passive / lower mana costs ?

Imagine if Leblanc would have a 85 mana E to "compensate" for new Leblanc passive : using a second spell after 1.5s on an enemy gives you the mana cost back.

WTF is that balance logic RITO ????

Some champs get the full king treatment, others get garbage

Catastrop3 votes

Because everything else costs a crap ton already.

Derfel2 votes

Mana costs aren't fantasy - Meddler

Lucifer2 votes

Le Blanc isn't an assassin, she's a kite mage Kappa

Proxy3452 votes

The range for her chain is literally half of mid lane lol thats way too long,even longer than Blitz's hook.

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

Yea, it should be more like 80, or 200.

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