The Master Yi changes on the PBE are brilliant! More changes like these please.

Gosh Darn·Jan 14, 2017·130 votes·5,903 views

Master Yi Double Strike (passive) "If Double Strike kills a minion or monster on the first hit the second will strike another nearby target (same behavior as Lucian's passive)." ** Meditate (W) New Effect Added: "In addition, Master Yi will gain stacks of Double Strike and pause the remaining duration on Wuju Style and Highlander for each second he channels." "The duration of E and R is paused while Yi's meditating (they don't tick down)" **

This increases Yi's effectiveness and potential for big plays while increasing his power by absolutely nothing. It's a fantastic way to make him slightly more viable in higher elo without effecting his noobstomping ability in low elo at all. I personally never would have thought about the pause and passive stacks effect on his W. You actually found a way to throw Yi a bone without breaking him. Props to this, and the game's balance could really use more creative balancing ideas like this.

96 Comments

SplicketyLickJan 14, 201712 votes

Matter of fact I played against a Level 7 Yi main

Both teams had dc's so it was 4v4

Yi could literally 1v4 us and the only reason the game lasted so long was because he wanted full build

xelakerJan 14, 201724 votes

{quoted}

Matter of fact I played against a Level 7 Yi main

Both teams had dc's so it was 4v4

Yi could literally 1v4 us and the only reason the game lasted so long was because he wanted full build

a good yi is a terrible thing with the Q dodges. worse yet if your cc champ team is the kind that -see champ, cc champ- and don't save it until he Q's or overcommits

Supreme Senpai69Jan 14, 201710 votes

Plus he's just a giant ball of stats that can statcheck anyone by rightclicking. 1v1 against a Yi with similar gold isn't horrifying but it's when he has a gold lead that he just decimates you. And since you can't control your team... who usually feeds him... there's nothing you can do when he presses R and comes for you with 2 complete items when you're almost done with one.

To a lesser extent he can just get fed off the jungle with his fast clear, but yeah

SkiasJan 14, 201711 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pbeAnJQk,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-01-14T08:43:05.328+0000)

Plus he's just a giant ball of stats that can statcheck anyone by rightclicking. 1v1 against a Yi with similar gold isn't horrifying but it's when he has a gold lead that he just decimates you. And since you can't control your team... who usually feeds him... there's nothing you can do when he presses R and comes for you with 2 complete items when you're almost done with one.

To a lesser extent he can just get fed off the jungle with his fast clear, but yeah

He also dies instantly with bad timing, he requires a good deal of enemy champ knowledge and timing.

LordGeovanniJan 15, 20172 votes

or running at the enemy and only qing if they use their spells because if they save their spells until after you q and you never q until they use their spells you automatically win that fight

AnidanJan 15, 20172 votes

That's going to require champion knowledge. You don't want to just Q any random spell, and some champs can evade even an ulting Yi for long enough that he'd have to consider using his Q so he can get in range before you leave or risk accomplishing nothing. In addition, there's champions like Nautilus and Rammus who screw Yi just because of how their kits work. Yes he has true damage, but he can only dodge a Nautilus AA or Rammus taunt for so long before it catches him and leads to a chain of CC.

Or we can just fiat various situations in which we propose ways in which Yi wins by default because he's Yi. That works, too.

LordGeovanniJan 15, 20171 votes

champion knowledge isnt exactly hard to come by you are supposed to gain that on the way to level 30 i myself read the skills and lore of every champion before summoner level 23 and played every champion before level 30 in the free week rotations. the thing after that is how well you understand what you read / see

RainbowIceeJan 14, 20173 votes

that doesn't matter if Yi get's a QSS, I fought a yi while i was using vaygar. He just ran through my stun wall and killed me and kept going like nothing. Honestly yi is really really really strong with items and QSS makes him strong vs his real weakness. Now i'm not saying he's broken though because early game he isn't strong vs the early game champs so there's that.

JoseraphJan 14, 20174 votes

Do you know how easy that is? I've done that to Veigar with Noc, Knifecat, Olaf, Fiora, and many others. That's not a "Yi is broken" thing, thats a "Veigar cant defend himself at all" thing

Covert Ops GnarJan 14, 201711 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GwE7oHQR-give-master-yi-the-lucian-treatment

ayeee

KnalxzJan 14, 201710 votes

We give Riot alot of flak when they do something wrong but not enough praise when they do something right. GJ for trying to find alternate ways to buff champions without making them total monsters.

Xela SyabJan 14, 20174 votes

Isn't this going to make his jungle clears quicker or make his farming easier?

5000000000000000Jan 14, 20179 votes

It's faster to charge the passive by autoattacking than meditating, so it would certainly not make it faster. I guess he can meditate right before starting another camp and charge up the passive, but that'd mean he's spending time meditating instead of autoattacking. Maybe it'll help his early clears a bit, but as game goes on, his farming would be unaffected (unless you ult while farming jungle to "powerfarm").

EvilMerodachJan 14, 20178 votes

{quoted}

It's faster to charge the passive by autoattacking than meditating, so it would certainly not make it faster. I guess he can meditate right before starting another camp and charge up the passive, but that'd mean he's spending time meditating instead of autoattacking. Maybe it'll help his early clears a bit, but as game goes on, his farming would be unaffected (unless you ult while farming jungle to "powerfarm").

If Double Strike kills a minion or monster on the first hit the second will strike another nearby target

That part will definitely speed up clears. Birds, krogs, wolves. Those will all go faster now. Even meditate part can help clear speed. Like short medi's when you're waiting in a camp for it to spawn, or krogs waiting for it to spawn the tinier ones. Couple other places I can see it being used...

This is a straight buff. Though still probably a way better direction to buff him than just +5AD. Cause it adds more to his skill ceiling without helping his faceroll play much. But I can see him needing nerfs from something like this. He does snowball hard when he starts snowballing, and anything to start the snowball faster could be enough.

5000000000000000Jan 14, 20171 votes

Oh, I didn't see the passive change, only the W change.

Xela SyabJan 14, 20174 votes

Man i get down voted for that :( at least a true master yi fan would somehow double down vote me lol.

AdriqnoheeJan 14, 20172 votes

There is no better way to show you disagree with someone in the boards than liking their post before disliking it, this way you didn't take a point out of the post, you took two.

Sraeg2013Jan 14, 20172 votes

I don't think it will make as much of a difference.

The second hit only does 50% the damage of a normal attack, so more often than not he will still have to land an additional attack to kill the thing.

neddacsJan 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's faster to charge the passive by autoattacking than meditating, so it would certainly not make it faster. I guess he can meditate right before starting another camp and charge up the passive, but that'd mean he's spending time meditating instead of autoattacking. Maybe it'll help his early clears a bit, but as game goes on, his farming would be unaffected (unless you ult while farming jungle to "powerfarm").

Thats not really the point of it, the point is so he doesn't pop w and you have a hard time killing him while his q cd goes down, and he gets to use it again.

five oh tree Jan 14, 20173 votes

I like what they did, but I think he could use a small power buff. His winrate falls pretty far as you look at it in higher and higher elos, and I very much doubt that will be fixed by this. It's because of his poor synergy with keystones compared to other champs combined with his weak-ish early game.

TheOneTrueBrandJan 14, 20177 votes

you never know, at super high ELO seemingly small changes like this have made champions pick-or-ban before.

ReZisT LustJan 14, 20171 votes

warlords? fervor?

five oh tree Jan 14, 20171 votes

Compared to old fervor? garbage. He has to build crit yi to make those even kind of compare to it, and glass cannon yi isn't that great.

ReZisT LustJan 14, 20171 votes

old ferver?

Zen InethJan 14, 20173 votes

He means before the Fervor changes. Before, it used to give (at max level) 8 damage per auto attack that stacked up 10 times, so 80 damage. It was just an on-hit effect that dealt physical damage. This meant that on-hit champions like Yi, Xin, and Warwick enjoyed it quite a bit.

The recent changes (about a month ago) changed it to where it (at max level) increased your AD by 8 (up from the original 6), and stacks 8 times (down from 10). So, at the outset of the changes, it stacked up to 64 increased AD, and then up to 80 AD. This change helps AD casters out quite a bit, since it gives them 80 additional AD for their abilities to scale off of.

I would posit that Master Yi prefers the new fervor, since his E has more to scale with, instead of just additional physical on-hit damage that's still mitigated by armor.

five oh tree Jan 14, 20171 votes

It was not just 80 damage, It was closer to 112 or something. It also applied to his passive's second autoattack (which now does 32 extra damage at full fervor stacks vs 112). This let him do a lot more damage while building more defense items.

yi, in no way, prefers new fervor. I have mastery 7 on him and stopped playing him BECAUSE of the fervor changes. It's much weaker, the duration is much shorter, and now you must build much squishier to do the damage you did before with Bloodrazor/bork/cleaver.

The only advantage of fervor is a slightly stronger crit yi build, but in that case you should be going warlord's anyway.

SkiasJan 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Time And a Half,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pbeAnJQk,comment-id=000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-14T13:39:49.383+0000)

It was not just 80 damage, It was closer to 112 or something. It also applied to his passive's second autoattack (which now does 32 extra damage at full fervor stacks vs 112). This let him do a lot more damage while building more defense items.

yi, in no way, prefers new fervor. I have mastery 7 on him and stopped playing him BECAUSE of the fervor changes. It's much weaker, the duration is much shorter, and now you must build much squishier to do the damage you did before with Bloodrazor/bork/cleaver.

The only advantage of fervor is a slightly stronger crit yi build, but in that case you should be going warlord's anyway.

Fervor also scales his E, no idea why you'd not want fervor on a champ that stacks it instantly.

five oh tree Jan 14, 20171 votes

Okay so instead of engaging in stupid anecdotes with you guys, the patch where fervor was changed his winrate dropped 3%. Stop claiming new fervor is good if it alone dropped a champion's winrate 3% in one patch. I don't even know why this is an argument when there's evidence right there.

SkiasJan 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Time And a Half,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pbeAnJQk,comment-id=00000001000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2017-01-14T21:31:56.479+0000)

Okay so instead of engaging in stupid anecdotes with you guys, the patch where fervor was changed his winrate dropped 3%. Stop claiming new fervor is good if it alone dropped a champion's winrate 3% in one patch. I don't even know why this is an argument when there's evidence right there.

I've been having success with it, don't know what to tell you bro.

five oh tree Jan 14, 20171 votes

I'm not denying you can have success with new fervor on yi; I'm saying you would be having more of it with old fervor.

SkiasJan 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Time And a Half,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pbeAnJQk,comment-id=0000000100000000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-14T23:25:24.905+0000)

I'm not denying you can have success with new fervor on yi; I'm saying you would be having more of it with old fervor.

That's kind of a garbage argument. That's like saying J4 would be a top pick again if he could rush old Atma's Impaler and Warmogs. I mean, in the current state, Fervor is his strongest pick.

SkiasJan 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Time And a Half,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pbeAnJQk,comment-id=00000001000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2017-01-14T21:31:56.479+0000)

Okay so instead of engaging in stupid anecdotes with you guys, the patch where fervor was changed his winrate dropped 3%. Stop claiming new fervor is good if it alone dropped a champion's winrate 3% in one patch. I don't even know why this is an argument when there's evidence right there.

OK, a lot of things change in a patch. Not just this one keystone. Its very likely the fact that Hecarim, Lee and Vi shit on him and are tops picks. That alone can lead to a 3% drop in winrate. You have zero evidence that Fervor (which is his superior keystone) as the cause.

five oh tree Jan 16, 20171 votes

Then read through the entire patch notes before making your comment like I did.

This was the patch of the assassins who no one knew how to play. Sure, you can blame the new Resolve keystone, but the machete was also changed in a very beneficial way to yi (more damage on-hit and lifesteal, which benefits yi more than any other champ due to his passive). This is also when the jungle got a lot tougher and stronger, but yi is a jungler specifically made for farming it and has no trouble, not even with the raptors. The jungle became more advantageous to people with healthy clears and aoe clears, and yi has both. Adding onto all of this, a squishy meta where assassins can't burst as fast but are still played is a master yi's wet dream; He can't be killed by the mid laner, they can't cc him either, so if he gets to the backline he's probably going to kill everyone.

None of that happened though, and that's because on-hit damage has always been better on yi.

In addition to all of this, yi is good against tank junglers. Not the divers who abused CotC, such as Vi and Hecarim, but the tank junglers who everyone tried to test with the new keystone. He can clear much faster will outlevel them and have better objective control. There's no reason for Yi to gain all these advantages and have his winrate drop EXCEPT FOR ONE THING: his own keystone being changed. It encourages squishier builds that have more crit and less on-hit (you really need more defense than a deadman's, if that's all you're getting then you're actually a noob).

I'm also going to put out here that yi has a higher-than-average winrate against Hecarim. So no, the pony doesn't shit on him, not after those CotC buffs. In fact, Yi has an edge in that jg matchup. Lee doesn't either; he's a completely even matchup.

So please, stop talking out of your ass and actually read the patch notes. It's clear which changes would have affected him positively and negatively.

SkiasJan 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Time And a Half,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pbeAnJQk,comment-id=0000000100000000000000010001000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-16T00:17:35.395+0000)

Then read through the entire patch notes before making your comment like I did.

This was the patch of the assassins who no one knew how to play. Sure, you can blame the new Resolve keystone, but the machete was also changed in a very beneficial way to yi (more damage on-hit and lifesteal, which benefits yi more than any other champ due to his passive). This is also when the jungle got a lot tougher and stronger, but yi is a jungler specifically made for farming it and has no trouble, not even with the raptors. The jungle became more advantageous to people with healthy clears and aoe clears, and yi has both. Adding onto all of this, a squishy meta where assassins can't burst as fast but are still played is a master yi's wet dream; He can't be killed by the mid laner, they can't cc him either, so if he gets to the backline he's probably going to kill everyone.

None of that happened though, and that's because on-hit damage has always been better on yi.

In addition to all of this, yi is good against tank junglers. Not the divers who abused CotC, such as Vi and Hecarim, but the tank junglers who everyone tried to test with the new keystone. He can clear much faster will outlevel them and have better objective control. There's no reason for Yi to gain all these advantages and have his winrate drop EXCEPT FOR ONE THING: his own keystone being changed. It encourages squishier builds that have more crit and less on-hit (you really need more defense than a deadman's, if that's all you're getting then you're actually a noob).

I'm also going to put out here that yi has a higher-than-average winrate against Hecarim. So no, the pony doesn't shit on him, not after those CotC buffs. In fact, Yi has an edge in that jg matchup. Lee doesn't either; he's a completely even matchup.

So please, stop talking out of your ass and actually read the patch notes. It's clear which changes would have affected him positively and negatively.

Yi does not have an edge against triforce rush hecarim. hec can 1 shot people with e. Barely any jungle can fight Hecarim, he's mad overtuned.

five oh tree Jan 17, 20171 votes

Implying the goal of this game is to fight other champions, lol.

When I posted that comment, yi's winrate was 47% or something, but it went up to ~49.5% in matches against hecarim. I'm just giving you facts here.

SkiasJan 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Time And a Half,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pbeAnJQk,comment-id=000000010000000000000001000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-17T07:03:37.782+0000)

Implying the goal of this game is to fight other champions, lol.

When I posted that comment, yi's winrate was 47% or something, but it went up to ~49.5% in matches against hecarim. I'm just giving you facts here.

Yet, Hecarim doesn't have a winrate that plummets as he climbs like Yi does. Yi gets worse as player get better. Hecarim is the far better pick and an infinitely superior team fighter. Why have Yi who only brings damage when you can have Hec, who does damage, initiates and is full tank?

NichtHurzJan 14, 20178 votes

A powerbuff would break him, since this would empower him to totally shred through low elo and when Yi is this strong he normally is insanely frustrating to play against.

Papa AndreiJan 14, 20176 votes

looks back at the 10+ balance posts i made about Yi when I first joined league ahhh good times

macromiteJan 14, 20171 votes

I've got a feeling riot dun goofed this and it will make him ridiculous. I know a few techniques that could theoretically give a lot of power if those pbe changes work like I think they do.

SkiasJan 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I've got a feeling riot dun goofed this and it will make him ridiculous. I know a few techniques that could theoretically give a lot of power if those pbe changes work like I think they do.

Nah, these buffs are super situational. Using Meditate mid combat is super risky.

macromiteJan 14, 20171 votes

Unless you are using it for the attack reset

SkiasJan 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Unless you are using it for the attack reset

At the risk of being CCed and crushed by not moving. If you get knocked out of meditate by practically anything, you die.

macromiteJan 15, 20171 votes

if you use it for the attack reset you don't stop moving.

SkiasJan 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

if you use it for the attack reset you don't stop moving.

Eh. These changes don't affect that either then. I don't generally blow it for an auto reset when I've got a shit ton of attack speed. I usually use it to block a big nuke.

macromiteJan 16, 20171 votes

again, the auto reset just gives extra damage reach.

I had a good game recently-ish where I exploited it and killed an enemy that otherwise had killed me, even through my healing and damage reduction.

I mean think of it this way, if you use the autoreset at 2 attacks per second that pretty much pushes you up to 3 attacks in a second, which shortens the cd of your main dodging skill. If it gives you that extra stack of double strike as well, it can increase your reach even farther, which could make a less close fight close with you as the winner.

ItsOrvalJan 14, 20172 votes

I had a game where we were ahead 43 vs 26 kills. I was 10/3/10 at the time as Jayce.

Master Yi comes out of no where late game, kills whole team in a few hits, nothing we could do. I dont want to see buffs on him. When he builds full attack speed and has these two items item 1419 item 3153 , its aids. I was the only one on the team that could 1v1 him, otherwise he could 1v4 my whole team.

DJMason88Jan 14, 20176 votes

Did you not have any hard cc?

ItsOrvalJan 14, 20171 votes

Team was me (Jayce), Jinx Blitzcrank Ziggs

Done25Jan 14, 20173 votes

Vi ults Yi, Blitzcrank grabs+silences+knocks him up, then you follow with the knock away. That's at least a good 3 seconds of hard CC.

FioraWillCarryJan 14, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Did you not have any hard cc?

Smart Yis would let their team engage so all the hard CC is on cooldown. Then he'd come out of no where with his ult and just Q through your entire team and right-click everyone to death.