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Taric's heal is still a joke; but I have a solution!

Dominick Destine··105 votes·5,740 views

Lower the ABSURD mana cost and slightly reduce the healing power.

This way it becomes a cheap and easy way to trigger Bravado (His passive) and increase his general effectiveness without actually giving him more healing power. 140 mana cost for his heal at rank 5 is a fucking joke, Riot sama... even 60 for rank 1 (20 HP heal with 1 charge, 60 for max charges) is nonsense.

I get that you are balancing this heal around the "Potential" of healing 5 people.... but that only produces a terrible heal for a huge cost in every other scenario.

EDIT: I'm not saying that Taric is bad or that he needs a buff... I'm NOT saying that.... what I am saying , by Riot's own admission he was NOT designed to be a primary healer like Soraka or Nami ...., which is fine that makes perfect sense, but he is saddled with primary healer mana costs for some insane reason and again, this is because POTENTIALLY, his heal can hit 5 people with 3 charges doing a pretty decent team heal.

This is not the case in 99% of casts. Therefore, it is almost always a very weak, very expensive heal for a huge mana cost. I say lower the heal , lower the mana cost and make it an easy way to trigger Bravado.

159 Comments

Stars Shaper11 votes

What I would do as a band-aid fix is to make it restore mana depending on how much effective heal has been done.

Skias18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-04T16:12:46.369+0000)

What I would do as a band-aid fix is to make it restore mana depending on how much effective heal has been done.

Or give him a mana return for Bravado against champions.

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

Or give him a mana return for Bravado against champions.

This would be amazing.

It would have to be a very low amount of mana, but still , I would love it if they did this.

Fondling Gems8 votes

So quick pop in from a Taric main who has been there and back again.

Now some of you may remember me as the Taric main who argued against changing his Q at all. This was because I firmly believed it was an important balancing tool. I still believe this. However I have also been doing some playtesting with different styles on my own time and have come to a couple conclusions.

So Taric has 2-3 general playstyles.

  1. Kill Shit Taric. This is the Taric I played for a long time. E max, aggressive play, death is the best cc. When playing this style of Taric his heal is very balanced because rather than being around the healing it is balanced around his passive. It lets him do short trades but hurts his long trades and all ins so that he can't just do it over and over. In regards to this it is quite balanced.

  2. Passive-er Taric. This is the Taric that wants to sit around, go for the occasional trade, but mostly just wants to make it to late game and teamfight. Not my personal favourite style but I put in the time on it to observe this. This is the Taric that might throw a second point into Q vs heavy poke lanes. He suffers early from the mana cost/limited heal on Q but I don't think that is a bad thing since this Taric is geared towards late game. As this Taric will generally pick up a fairly early redemption a lot of the mana issues on Q fade out although the heal can still feel a bit stifling on a Taric who just wants to live until late game.

I don't think his heal needs changes here but a little something might be nice.

  1. Healer Taric. Recently the Taric I have picked up. Q max. Windspeakers. A lot of mana regen in your runes. This is the Taric I have been having fun with lately. It is honestly pretty strong and in theory should be amazing outside of lane. However it can suffer pretty hard there surprisingly. This is due to his passive and not being able to always proc it as a healer.

So what can we see here? It is pretty balanced for an aggressive Taric but as you get more and more passive/more Q focus it gets worse, even though it should be your focus. There are a couple actions that can balance that out though. Two in particular that I have been considering.

  1. Lower mana cost at higher ranks. This keeps the same restriction on aggressive Tarics as it is the limiter on them. However it lets Taric that want to get to late game or focus on healing still be effective as they level it up.

  2. Change how it interacts with his passive. Currently his Q CD is very punishing without his passive. It is the main drawback of playing healer Taric because you are so squishy. So what if we changed his Q CD from 15 > 10 and had his passive reduction change from 6-3.3 > 3.5-1.925? It leaves his Q on the same CD if he is proccing his passive but cuts his Q CD down otherwise. This makes his combo exactly the same in fights while helping out a Taric who is hiding under turret.

Either one or both of those changes would help out Taric without touching aggressive Taric which is what his Q is currently balanced around.

xWaters7 votes

I max Q last. The range on shield and great utility and damage from e really outshines the heal. I think taric is in a decent place, but a mana reduction would be nice.

KylerEzraStar5 votes

Love this idea. Shifting the power into another direction. Would really help JG and top Taric too.

Best of the 34 votes

His heal is way overpriced for the "potential" it supposedly has. But another thing I find people overlook is his W, as the shield it provides scales off of the targets health. Making Taric a rather below average to not great at all support to ADC's compared to say, top lane off tanks, who get stuck in with health items benefitting greatly from both Taric's W and E. I think both his heal and his W shield, at least how it scales, should be looked at. Perhaps having it scale off of Taric's health / armour instead of the targets, to make it more worth a damn on an ADC.

Valor Bot3 votes

If you slightly reduce the healing power of an already barely-noticeable heal, though... then it becomes pretty insignificant as a heal overall. At that point, why not just remove the healing portion altogether?

I feel the distinction between the 1st charge of his heal and the 3rd charge just needs to be more evident. Like, the 1st should be REALLY weak but the 3rd REALLY strong.

Dominick Destine4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-03-04T21:03:22.382+0000)

I feel the distinction between the 1st charge of his heal and the 3rd charge just needs to be more evident. Like, the 1st should be REALLY weak but the 3rd REALLY strong.

But they've already said outright that they dislike the healing portion of Taric, as in, he's NOT supposed to be a good healer. The heal is meant sort of as an added bonus and to top people off in certain situations... with the potential to function as a team-wide heal under ideal circumstances (Unique trait by Taric now, only ults can match this).

If we went by your idea, maybe we could make the 3rd charge give a second benefit? not healing, but, say... a huge armor boost for a few seconds? (+10 armor for 3 seconds per level of heal?) I'd be down for that and it would make perfect sense as well. Taric does NOT need higher healing numbers is my point.

Quindec3 votes

reason why i max heal last its so mana hungry that i usually use it to trigger bravado so i can e/w can cd faster

Joseph Gladstone1 votes

[deleted]

Dominick Destine32 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dunkin Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-04T16:11:16.656+0000)

yeah its even worse than it was before his rework

Prework, Taric had arguably the best heal in the game.

If you had the right items and masteries, you could easily reach 750 HP self-heal every 3 seconds or so.... I understand why it was nerfed, but come on this is ridiculous. It should at least come with a secondary benefit like every other heal in the game.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T16:14:37.595+0000)

Prework, Taric had arguably the best heal in the game.

If you had the right items and masteries, you could easily reach 750 HP self-heal every 3 seconds or so.... I understand why it was nerfed, but come on this is ridiculous. It should at least come with a secondary benefit like every other heal in the game.

The secondary benefit is it's absurd cast range.

Dominick Destine12 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-04T17:06:15.365+0000)

The secondary benefit is it's absurd cast range.

Sona Nami ?

The Yetii Rider4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2017-03-04T17:13:25.574+0000)

Sona Nami ?

Sona's Aria of Perseverance does have 1000 range but the base is pitifully small, even smaller than Taric's. The primary benefit is when it is paired with the shield, which only has 300 range.

Nami's Ebb and Flow has 725 range. That is not as long as Taric's 800 range.

Papa Andrei7 votes

Kinda talking bout Tarics W plus the heal for dange lol

The Yetii Rider4 votes

{quoted}

Kinda talking bout Tarics W plus the heal for dange lol

Yes...that is its range. Riot did not just tack the ability to heal your W partner onto his kit and say "that's free, now lets balance the heal separately".

Melledoneus1 votes

Why not have the heal also give a small armor buff for a few seconds, similar to what his old W used to give?

AlienPrimate6 votes

That's called windspeakers blessing

Melledoneus2 votes

And it's a shitty mastery to take on Taric.

Also, no MR and just armor would introduce the heal as a semi-fortify, and paired with the W shield would make for great defensive plays.

AlienPrimate1 votes

I don't see how it is bad on him. He can permanently buff his entire team with the bonuses late game and he has shields from w and items and heals from q and targon's brace. What could possibly be better?

Bond of stone is nearly worthless.

TLD is good if you are going top but it isn't worth it as support.

CotC can be good but with the cool down and excess of shield taric already has it isn't better than windspeakers blessing.

Grasp is just bad on pretty much everyone right now.

I shouldn't even have to say anything about the other 4.

Melledoneus1 votes

New Bond is going to be what Taric takes.

AlienPrimate1 votes

I'll still be using windspeakers. The bonus shielding and healing and small amount of armor and mr with 45% cdr is more valuable than ~80 healing per 2 seconds for my allies when at full build.

Skias2 votes

{quoted}

I'll still be using windspeakers. The bonus shielding and healing and small amount of armor and mr with 45% cdr is more valuable than ~80 healing per 2 seconds for my allies when at full build.

Taric has depreciating returns on CDR unless you absolutely are allergic to using his passive. If you use Bravado properly, 45% CDR is worthless.

AlienPrimate1 votes

The CDR is mostly for his ult. 45% cdr makes his ult cd 55 seconds so it can be used pretty much every single fight.

Skias2 votes

{quoted}

The CDR is mostly for his ult. 45% cdr makes his ult cd 55 seconds so it can be used pretty much every single fight.

His Ult should be up for every fight with 20% CDR. Its a ton of gold and mastery points spent on something he gets relatively little benefit from. He definitely doesn't need 45%, that is a total waste.

Shrek Luigi5 votes

No it's not. An extra 22 armor for your entire team in teamfights + more armor for your teammate through popping Bastion off, and access to the Intelligence mastery for that 5% CDR. It's extremely good on him and the only reason more people aren't using it is because Courage of the Colossus has been stupid strong since 7.2

Skias1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shrek Luigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=000000000002000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-04T23:56:55.032+0000)

No it's not. An extra 22 armor for your entire team in teamfights + more armor for your teammate through popping Bastion off, and access to the Intelligence mastery for that 5% CDR. It's extremely good on him and the only reason more people aren't using it is because Courage of the Colossus has been stupid strong since 7.2

It doesn't affect himself.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

It's still 10% stronger heals and shields that do apply to Taric himself.

Auz the Ripper4 votes

the 10% increased healing and shields does

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Auz the Ripper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=00000000000200000000000100000001,timestamp=2017-03-05T01:47:57.189+0000)

the 10% increased healing and shields does

Yeah and its nearly worthless. The armor/Mr boost is the only reason to take windspeakers. 1 star heal is like a 4 HP boost or so. 3 star heal is increased by 6. That is worth nothing, and it certainly doesn't justify leveling his Q which compounds his mana problems.

AlienPrimate1 votes

It is closer to 8-10 health per charge depending on your build.

Skias4 votes

{quoted}

It is closer to 8-10 health per charge depending on your build.

Q level 1 base is 20hp, with low scalings. 3 star is 60. Realistically, you'd be lucky to be pulling 8hp from anything that isn't a 3 star heal. Either way, thats some pathetic output, unfortunately. I'm not a fan, but I have nothing against people that find success with it. I prefer to alleviate his extreme team reliance with a more self sufficient keystone. When you have to fight with just one other person, other keystones will serve you better. Hell, BoS probably would serve you both better in raw mitigation, as it doesn't suck up your mana.

AlienPrimate1 votes

I personally never have trouble with mana on Taric outside of poke lanes early game. After getting just a item 3110 or item 3025 I typically have enough mana for the rest of the game. Against a poke lane I will get item 3107 and item 3504 which gives a lot of mana regen to spam abilities freely.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

I personally never have trouble with mana on Taric outside of poke lanes early game. After getting just a item 3110 or item 3025 I typically have enough mana for the rest of the game. Against a poke lane I will get item 3107 and item 3504 which gives a lot of mana regen to spam abilities freely.

So wait... you run Frozen Heart and Mallet. Then go into AP on Censer. Where is your MR and Health? 400HP isn't enough.

Black Cat Senna2 votes

Doesn't banner not have AP anymore regardless?

Yosuke Apperu4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-04T16:14:37.595+0000)

Prework, Taric had arguably the best heal in the game.

If you had the right items and masteries, you could easily reach 750 HP self-heal every 3 seconds or so.... I understand why it was nerfed, but come on this is ridiculous. It should at least come with a secondary benefit like every other heal in the game.

Pre-rework taric could 1v2 anything in the game with just a spirit visage and iceborn gauntlet. Ah how I miss my old main so <3

LordGeovanni2 votes

what is that build i built item 3097 item 3091 and after suppressing the adc and starving them killing them twice id stand between their outer tower and inner tower and 2v1 the adc and support. but look we now have fixed attack speed on our passive that now takes 2 hits to do what it did in one hit before

Bisaknosp1 votes

the heal is not too bad with windspeakers and item 3114

Skias3 votes

{quoted}

the heal is not too bad with windspeakers and item 3114

Its pretty bad, though. To have to buy an 800 gold item with relatively worthless stats and waste your keystone, its pretty rough.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

Its pretty bad, though. To have to buy an 800 gold item with relatively worthless stats and waste your keystone, its pretty rough.

Worthless?

Forbidden Idol works wonders for someone who is Ability focused with mana problems. Not to mention that it builds into Redemption, which is a strong pickup in it's own right.

Also, He has his Bastion shield, in addition to his heal, both of which have reduced cooldowns when you proc his passive. Which offers plenty of opportunities to proc Windspeakers on multiple targets.

Skias2 votes

{quoted}

Worthless?

Forbidden Idol works wonders for someone who is Ability focused with mana problems. Not to mention that it builds into Redemption, which is a strong pickup in it's own right.

Also, He has his Bastion shield, in addition to his heal, both of which have reduced cooldowns when you proc his passive. Which offers plenty of opportunities to proc Windspeakers on multiple targets.

Yeah, have fun proccing Bravado with Idol down bot. You'll likely get all ined and die the first time with no armor, health or MR. Let me know how that goes for you.

TotalJerk5 votes

Taric HAS to be tanky. Aside from Redemption and maybe Mikael's situationally he can't afford to waste slots stacking idol items.

Jeanne fan club1 votes

I played a crap ton of taric earlier this season. Let me tell you... item 3027 item 3504 you will not be complaining about the 400+ heal that you can get potentially every 6 seconds if you manage auto attacks properly. Wierd build I know, but his heal scales with health and ability power, very good ratios in fact. you can double the base heal amount with 10 stack roa, then the 20% amp will carry you to 400+ heals. After that you go item 3190 and standard tank. This build is much more practical than it looks.

The real problem here is that if taric is using his heals perfectly, then the heal is WAY TOO GOOD, if he is playing very poorly and not using his auto attack cd reduction on his passive, then the heal is complete garbage. There really is no in between here.

Honestly they should not change him at all, at the moment he has a very high skill ceiling because of his cooldown reduction autos, and any change would be doing harm to the balance of the game. A buff to his heal would completely break him at higher levels of play.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well Taric is unlikely to proc his passive most of the time... simply because he has no mobility and his CC is quite short range (unless he has an ally to jump in for him) which means he doesn't have any good way of closing the gap and actually getting in range to hit enemies (though he can hit minions if there are some around)

Jeanne fan club1 votes

I'm not really sure what you are talking about, I find it extremely easy to proc his passive. If you aren't getting 2+ 3 charge heals off in a teamfight then you are playing him completely wrong. I find it extremely easy to even do that in lane and in small 2v2 skirmishes. It doesn't even matter if you are hitting an enemy champion sometimes, as long as you don't stop auto attacking in a teamfight you are playing him correctly.

LordGeovanni1 votes

why reduce the healing power is the mana cost goint to 20 or something? ps its still a terrible heal even if it hits 5 people it wont save anyone by virtue of the heal itself.

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

why reduce the healing power is the mana cost goint to 20 or something?

To trigger his passive more often, giving him a more active role in direct combat and indirectly buffing his other skills by rewarding their interactions with Bravado.

Skias1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uVEgf3kd,comment-id=00240000,timestamp=2017-03-05T17:02:40.876+0000)

To trigger his passive more often, giving him a more active role in direct combat and indirectly buffing his other skills by rewarding their interactions with Bravado.

This is basically how Taric uses Q now. Q is Bravado and his passive is "heals targets with bastion" lol. I rarely use it to actively heal someone other than my other front liner. Most of my games, I wait for the assassin to dive my carry, E Bravado, W Bravado and he's dead. Death is the best peel.

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

This is basically how Taric uses Q now.

Except he has huge mana costs and extremely low benefit from lvl 1 Q.

Lvl 5 Q has extremely high mana cost. So it's lose-lose.

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