I realized Pyke's passive is op in a way that isn't obvious.

Bouncemaster Zac·Jun 6, 2018·68 votes·20,456 views

It grants free ward detection at almost all times. Since he can only recover lost hp when "unseen by enemies," he can't recover when spotted by a ward. So if Pyke is roaming, flanking, etc. and notices his grey health isn't recovering, he now knows, for free, that an area is warded. Which is pretty ridiculous.

EDIT: Everyone saying "but Duskblade does that so it doesn't matter lol" Do you not realize Duskblade has been the most hated item in the game since they introduced it. Due in no small part to the anti-vision it gives.

71 Comments

Pika FoxJun 6, 201851 votes

Its really not all that abusable. Youd need to have recently taken damage by champions, so theyre nearby still, so its not like youre going to ward clear while youre running away.

Bouncemaster ZacJun 6, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPn2Y7Kn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-06T14:42:34.932+0000)

Its really not all that abusable. Youd need to have recently taken damage by champions, so theyre nearby still, so its not like youre going to ward clear while youre running away.

I suppose, but there's also the possibility of using W to escape. It's not frequent, but it is possible.

DanjengJun 6, 201844 votes

I'm pretty sure Pyke still has a visual effect if he's unseen regardless of his health.

Chembaron YamadaJun 6, 201817 votes

Can confirm, that is right.

ZerenzaJun 7, 20182 votes

He does not have an indicator of any kind if he's full health, the indicator is the water effect around him when he has any missing health.

VerarticusJun 6, 20185 votes

He only gets this when he has taken champion damage, and healed it back. If you've freshly re-spawned (or possibly just backed as well) and haven't taken champ damage you don't have the visual at full health.

Honestly it's probably a bug.

kmathieu2220Jun 6, 20181 votes

Yeah even if he isn't actively recovering health he has a little swirl that goes around him signifying that he is unseen/his passive is active. Easy way to detect if wards are in lane/river while playing support as well to help set up for ganks and better use of control wards and sweepers.

Hay5eedJun 7, 20181 votes

actually I am pretty sure this is a glitch because sometimes the sound effect of him recovering health still plays even when he is not. Maybe they'll fix it

HommeGoujonJun 6, 201814 votes

Don't you need to build draktharr on him anyways?

Poop JellyJun 6, 20185 votes

ur the first person I've seen to call it Draktharr instead of Duskblade lol

YumaS2AstralJun 6, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Poop Jelly,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPn2Y7Kn,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-06T20:53:04.950+0000)

ur the first person I've seen to call it Draktharr instead of Duskblade lol

because it is too difficult to write

rtbf225618241Jun 7, 20181 votes

Because people are illiterate. Also a "difficult" word.

I guess punctuation is too difficult too.

WimbledofyJun 7, 20182 votes

who cares about proper punctuation? This isn't an essay. As long as you can understand what is being communicated, then punctuation doesn't matter.

HommeGoujonJun 7, 20182 votes

Funny thing is I had to check out to spell it correctly. But with my French accent, Draktar is easier to pronounce thant duskblade. I think that's why.

HethaleanJun 6, 20186 votes

Yeah, Khazix has this as well I think.

FutureCreatorJun 6, 20181 votes

Kha'Zix's passive refreshes instantly though. If he goes out of vision for even a second his passive recharges, so it isn't really exploitable.

HethaleanJun 6, 20182 votes

I mean, don't you have to have been damaged by a champion recently to get Pyke passive to tell you anything?

VekknaJun 6, 20186 votes

When you look at Pyke, it's hard not to think that Riot's just trolling the playerbase by combining a list of most-hated mechanics into a single champ. I mean, just look at the list:

Free ward detection because reasons
Tahm's gray health healing
Thresh's hook
Darius' crippling strike
Free-cast dash (with a stun....because?)
Stealth on command
Execute (that ignores shields)
Blink
Resets

With a list like that, you'd half expect him to get a bunch of free AD as a passive or something ridiculous like that. Oh, wait...

Gramps69Jun 6, 201811 votes

And the champ is still balanced imo, he's heavily gated by high cooldowns and is extremely squishy since he can't build health

VekknaJun 6, 20189 votes

That's right, he doesn't get health from health items. Good thing his base health is ~15-20% higher than other AD assassins!

At level 18, a Zed with a BC has 2429 hp and he gets 40 AD from BC.

At level 18, a Pyke with a BC has 2470 hp and he gets 69 AD from BC.

So squishy! Much penalty! Except not at all. The hp is still there, he just doesn't have to pay for it like everyone else. You can pick one of several mid-range or dps mages, build a Rylai's/ + Liandry's on them and still have less health than Pyke at max level.

That's like saying Cassio is slow because she can't build boots.

TehNACHOJun 7, 20183 votes

Well there is also the issue that Pyke does basically no damage by himself. No point in having bonus AD if it's still not pumping into anything.

Pyke: Average of 9,679 damage

Zed: Average of 22,532 damage

So Zed still does way more than double Pyke's damage, and further reading shows Pyke handling a whopping 300 more damage than Zed on average.

If we're going to argue numbers, why not look at the actual outcome of those numbers instead of screaming "Boo hoo, this guy has more AD that he can't even use"

VonToothskieJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

When you look at Pyke, it's hard not to think that Riot's just trolling the playerbase by combining a list of most-hated mechanics into a single champ. I mean, just look at the list:

Free ward detection because reasons

Tahm's gray health healing

Thresh's hook

Darius' crippling strike

Free-cast dash (with a stun....because?)

Stealth on command

Execute (that ignores shields)

Blink

Resets

With a list like that, you'd half expect him to get a bunch of free AD as a passive or something ridiculous like that. Oh, wait...

yeah but hes still really terrible. his entire kit is fighter/tank but hes squishier than lux. i get that once in a bluemoon you can nuke people, but the hoops you have to jump through to get there are absurd. he's a one trick that only succeeds if he starts out ahead

VekknaJun 7, 20182 votes

It doesn't matter if he's good or bad. It will always be fucking obnoxious when a Pyke pops out of stealth and harpoon you, or dashes away and stuns you if you try to chase, or executes your entire team, or vanishes whenever he's about to die.

Good or bad, he'll never be anything but annoying as fuck. Just look at Fizz and Yasuo.

Resonance x LFTJun 7, 20183 votes

Khazix You're Khazix just Khazix realizing Khazix this Khazix now? Khazix

Budget YamiJun 8, 20181 votes

why the khazix?

Sad TyrantJun 8, 20181 votes

His passive, if he is unseen, he gets next aa empowered

nm1010Jun 6, 20182 votes

On the pbe he healed as long as champion vision didn’t see him, so whether you were on wards or seen by minions you could still heal. I have no idea if this is still the case however.

KazaJhodoJun 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

On the pbe he healed as long as champion vision didn’t see him, so whether you were on wards or seen by minions you could still heal. I have no idea if this is still the case however.

Pretty sure you're right, his passive triggers out of champion vision, not vision in general. I'd have to test it again to be 100%, but i'm like 90% sure.

Beacon AcademyJun 6, 20182 votes

People can also check by being in a bush near a minion wave with auto attack on.

If you attack, its because the minions can see you and therefore the bush is warded.

I usually see supports who just turn the auto attack option off and I'm laughing to myself xD

3TWarriorJun 7, 20181 votes

most people turn it off because when you move within range of a target, it forces you into the auto attack animation

Beacon AcademyJun 7, 20181 votes

I like leaving it on because I'm forced to keep moving to not do unnecessary auto attacks

Serika ZeroJun 6, 20182 votes

he builds item 3147 he can do that without his passive ;)

Andrey0345Jun 6, 20182 votes

What's the matter if all assassins build item 3147 which does same with that on-hit effect.

BLACK REALM GODJun 6, 20182 votes

nah. that's why i bring lens. it was pretty obvious. at least i thought it was. idk.

SalamencęJun 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPn2Y7Kn,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-06-06T19:53:38.830+0000)

nah. that's why i bring lens. it was pretty obvious. at least i thought it was. idk.

It is obvious but I guess some people can't use their brains.

lolipopevelynnJun 6, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPn2Y7Kn,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-06T14:39:02.509+0000)

It grants free ward detection at almost all times. Since he can only recover lost hp when "unseen by enemies," he can't recover when spotted by a ward. So if Pyke is roaming, flanking, etc. and notices his grey health isn't recovering, he now knows, for free, that an area is warded. Which is pretty ridiculous.

EDIT: Everyone saying "but Duskblade does that so it doesn't matter lol" Do you not realize Duskblade has been the most hated item in the game since they introduced it. Due in no small part to the anti-vision it gives.

false. you still have no idea where the ward is or, better yet, what even has vision of you. could be a ward, could be a garen, could be a teemo.

MalrothDragoniaJun 7, 20181 votes

nobody expects the Teemo

Malicious FuryJun 6, 20182 votes

"OMG and TRYNDAMERE'S W is OP AF because he can tell if champions are nearby in the bushes. OMG OP OP"

YuGiHoJun 6, 20182 votes

Tfw u made the same exact post 4 days ago and it got no up votes.

Bouncemaster ZacJun 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Tfw u made the same exact post 4 days ago and it got no up votes.

Happens to everyone.

Shazzbot69Jun 7, 20182 votes

So does slark's ulimate in dota 2. the issue with anti vision in league is that riot kinda fucked up the whole warding system by needlessly limiting it. Also it does not really make Pyke OP. Even if you know an area is warded, The enemies can tell where you are just by noticing where wards are getting taken out. If you don't take the wards out then the wards are still there doing their job.

AxzariousJun 7, 20181 votes

I don't hate duskblade because of the anti-vision. I hate duskblade because it's overloaded in what it does. Bonus damage AND vision control? Split those passives and put them on different items and my issues largely vanish.

FlashesJun 7, 20181 votes

So in part, you hate it because it has anti-vision.

AxzariousJun 7, 20181 votes

If you want to squint really hard and make a few mental somersaults when interpreting what I said, then yes.

FawkseaJun 7, 20181 votes

It's a very strong thing about him but only early, the enemy barely has vision after i finish duskblade cus i'll just walk around with duskblade one shotting wards and if i wanna check other places i have a sweeper

Hexs FortuneJun 7, 20181 votes

Pyke needs to have been recently damage for the grey health to be present, so it's not as if ward detection is always available

Saitho OriharaJun 7, 20181 votes

You can also see if an area is warded base on the enemies reactions... I don't really see this as OP, I only see this as a trick you can use to your advantage not a GAME BREAKING RIOT MOST NERF thing.