Essence Reaver isn't as bad as people make it out to be

Visigoth·Oct 27, 2015·5 votes·898 views

Seriously, so many champions can utilize it. At 3200 it's the cheapest BF item, and still gives the same amount of AD along with 10% cdr and lifesteal, on top of mana.

And seriously, it has retardedly good synergy with . If you can stack the tear, you're pretty much golden. is scary. His W is literally a tactical nuke.

And people complain about running out of mana on some caster adcs. Literally the reason Essence Reaver exists. Imagine if Ezreal with Muramana just didn't run out of mana. Imagine if Draven could spam axes and W and E and never run out of mana. Yeah, maybe it isn't as good as IE or BT, but essence reaver is not as bad as people think it is.

19 Comments

Stiv1234Oct 27, 20157 votes

Problem is that it gives zero mana regen before having stacked up 3200 gold, and when they get the item, they usually dont need the mana regen that much anymore. If it had a component with a similar passive or even just an Idol, then it would be great.

PartholonianOct 28, 20151 votes

Well, if you're going for the combo with item 3004 , you could rush item 3070 first and then start building item 3508 . Kind of a long power trough though if your first back is something like item 1053 (and that's if you have BF-level gold, otherwise it might even be item 3245 ). You'd better have a kit that can make really good use of that mana.

BastionKrossOct 28, 20152 votes

This.

A completed ER isn't that bad. It's actually a pretty decent item. But that horrible build path prevents you from getting any mana benefit until you've dumped so much gold into it that you're either so fed another item would be a bigger powerspike or the laning phase is almost over anyway. You could start with item 3070 and then rush ER, but that delays your powerspike so long that you'd be better be dominating the lane just to break even.

At one time they did have mana regen in the recipe, back on the PBE. Pantheon Jayce became the only viable top laners because of it. Jinx is also purposefully gated by mana early game so she can't spam rockets, this would counter that and make her even stronger than she is now. And these are just the champs I can think of right off the top of my head, imagine how much less fun early AD and mana regen would make Yorick .

Betoldia PrimeOct 27, 20152 votes

I know, this item is OP, but people are so close minded that they dont see it as beneficial. Im a Reaver user myself, and i put it on a lot of champs. I rush it when i play Quinn . its my second or third item when i play Fiora (sometimes, depending on the enemy team), i get it like 3rd item on Talon and MasterYi . I put it on Olaf late game. And people criticize me but always ask me why i barely B in the games. BECAUSE IM NOT OUT OF MANA BITCHES!!! Basically, i slap in on my ADCs when i prioritize Lifesteal instead of crit.

JbelsOct 27, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I know, this item is OP, but people are so close minded that they dont see it as beneficial. Im a Reaver user myself, and i put it on a lot of champs. I rush it when i play . its my second or third item when i play (sometimes, depending on the enemy team), i get it like 3rd item on and . I put it on late game. And people criticize me but always ask me why i barely B in the games. BECAUSE IM NOT OUT OF MANA BITCHES!!! Basically, i slap in on my ADCs when i prioritize Lifesteal instead of crit.

We're close-minded for not using an item when there are two superior options already on the market?

Betoldia PrimeOct 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We're close-minded for not using an item when there are two superior options already on the market?

You're close minded for believing them to be superior in the first place, when in truth, they are equal.

Unlike The Reaver, Infinity edge is no good unless it has MORE Crit items to back it up. And its too costly to take it first if you wont greatly benefit from it. 3 out of 10 hits will be boosted critical hits, but it wont be helpfull if it ends up being the LAST 3 hits, you might be dead already before you reach the last 3 (Especially if you are a squichi ADC).

And whats the point of Never dying because of Bloodthirsters Shield, if you waste time in the base instead of in the battlefiels. Sure, you get to win more trades because you have more sustain, but you waste precious farm while you go get more mana.

But the reaver has an advantage as soon as you get it. The cooldown lets you use your skills more often, the lifesteal allows you to win more trades because its still a sustain item (its only a 10% diference in lifesteal than bloodthirster) and you dont have to waste time going back to base because youre getting mana back with each hit, and the less you have, the more you get back, so even if you completely run out of mana. after 4-5 hits you have 30-50% mana back. and its 4-5 hits that youre using to farm and get more gold.

Basically what im saying is, know what you NEED instead of buying what LOOKS better. And from personal experience, buying reaver first, THEN Bloodthirster, is faster than buying bloodthirster, THEN reaver. Because in 10 minutes, a difference of 3 won trades(Bloodthirster first) and 5 won trades(Reaver first), is the amount of mana you have to win the fight. And to be fair, it depends on what champion you are using. Because a smart person wouldnt buy a mana regen item on a manaless champion, you would buy what gives you more health. (unless youre a Riven tryhard)

JbelsOct 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You're close minded for believing them to be superior in the first place, when in truth, they are equal.

Unlike The Reaver, Infinity edge is no good unless it has MORE Crit items to back it up. And its too costly to take it first if you wont greatly benefit from it. 3 out of 10 hits will be boosted critical hits, but it wont be helpfull if it ends up being the LAST 3 hits, you might be dead already before you reach the last 3 (Especially if you are a squichi ADC).

And whats the point of Never dying because of Bloodthirsters Shield, if you waste time in the base instead of in the battlefiels. Sure, you get to win more trades because you have more sustain, but you waste precious farm while you go get more mana.

But the reaver has an advantage as soon as you get it. The cooldown lets you use your skills more often, the lifesteal allows you to win more trades because its still a sustain item (its only a 10% diference in lifesteal than bloodthirster) and you dont have to waste time going back to base because youre getting mana back with each hit, and the less you have, the more you get back, so even if you completely run out of mana. after 4-5 hits you have 30-50% mana back. and its 4-5 hits that youre using to farm and get more gold.

Basically what im saying is, know what you NEED instead of buying what LOOKS better. And from personal experience, buying reaver first, THEN Bloodthirster, is faster than buying bloodthirster, THEN reaver. Because in 10 minutes, a difference of 3 won trades(Bloodthirster first) and 5 won trades(Reaver first), is the amount of mana you have to win the fight. And to be fair, it depends on what champion you are using. Because a smart person wouldnt buy a mana regen item on a manaless champion, you would buy what gives you more health. (unless youre a Riven tryhard)

I could get out of Blood thirster what I could get out of Reaver with 300 more gold, and decent mana control.

Betoldia PrimeOct 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I could get out of Blood thirster what I could get out of Reaver with 300 more gold, and decent mana control.

True, but from personal experience 7 out of 10 Lol Players have no idea what mana control is. ESPECIALLY when it comes to late game and they think skill spamming in a teamfight is the way to go. (I know someone who thinks like that)

EndlessSorcererOct 28, 20151 votes

I think they were referring to Bloodthirster (lifesteal) and Manamune (mana sustain), not Infinity Edge.

DivewingOct 28, 20152 votes

Talon shouldn't need mana sustain. If he does you're either mega behind, doing somethig really wrong, or so far ahead its a surprise they didnt ff@20

CrettOct 27, 20151 votes

as long as it's not outright better than IE and BT, people will never buy it it's just how marksmen are right now. im waiting on the rework

JbelsOct 27, 20151 votes

It isn't worth sinking 3200 gold into for 10% CDR, 10% Lifesteal, and 80 AD. Meanwhile, you have Bloodthirster which is only 300 gold more, gives you 20% Lifesteal, AND the shield passive, which is basically free health

Flyer BeastOct 27, 20151 votes

The CDR of it is really nice, and item 3042 toggle goes so well with item 3508 . Id agree on that its not as bad as people say on mana needy champs. The survivability of item 3072 is also nice, and if youre building any crit at all item 3031 's crit damage boost is a must, but is good especially when combined with .

PartholonianOct 28, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Flyer Beast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uNwRVQHr,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-27T23:24:55.137+0000)

if youre building any crit at all

I think the elephant in the room here is that the "if" does not belong in this statement. All marksmen must build crit in the current state of the class. There is no non-crit build. Crit is just that good, whether your kit particularly interacts with it or benefits from it or not. (Instead, if your kit doesn't benefit well from crit, you just aren't viable at all).

Hopefully the preseason will change this.

Slamurai JackOct 28, 20151 votes

I want to like the item, I really do, but it's just absolute garbage as a dueling item compared to BT, Botrk, or IE first. You aren't going to beat someone with any of those in an all in no matter what you do.

ZephyrDrakeOct 28, 20151 votes

so... it's good on Jayce and maybe on Ezreal... BT is just so much better if you want to survive and if you are building IE it also means you are building at least one other crit item. Reaver is just a meh item that gives 10% CDR and a mana restoration passive that only applies to autos... if it at least applied to single target spells then it would be better but as i stands now? Reaver is just a waste of an item when you can just wait for 300 more gold and get something better

JbelsOct 28, 20151 votes

Honestly, the item was better when you didn't have to sink 1550 just to buy one of it's components. It was a much better item before they changed up it's recipe

J EevoOct 28, 20151 votes

If I'm getting item 3042 I don't need item 3508 manaregen, the 10% lifesteal is just meh, and the 10% CDR is actually really awkward to fit in the build since most casters go 5% from masteries, 15% item 3158 and then 20% item 3071 to top it off so they're at 40%.

I don't really see a reason to pick item 3508 over item 3043 on any champ that builds the two, and if I'll need lifesteal I'll just go for item 3072 instead.

Now if it had a cheaper component that'd allow me to lane easier with the manaregen I could see it happening but I'm not going to wait for 3,2k gold to get lane sustain.