If you want Darius to be good in high elo, buffing his damage is the worst possible choice

Moody P··55 votes·15,069 views

Buffing Darius's damage does nothing to make him less exploitable in high ELO and more valuable in pro play. Darius already does plenty of damage innately and his season 8 shift to Trinity Force over Cleaver has only reinforced that.

If you want Darius to be less of a shit pick the higher up in rank you go, then buff his his E.

For instance:

  • In season 7 there was an undocumented range nerf to his E by about 15-20 units. The indicator never changed so the actual range of it is still shorter than the hitbox tells you it is, and it was an all-around unnecessary nerf when Riot had already taken out his Q mechanic involving 4 stacks of passive as well as nerfing the inner damage of Q from 50% to 35%. Revert this and you can ignore the point below.

  • E has a 24 second cooldown. For being his primary fighting tool in lane, this is simply too high, and instead of buffing this, you keep raising his damage. This does little to solve his glaring flaws in higher play (only fight-forcing tool on such a high CD compared to other lane bullies who are either more mobile or outrange him and all of which have far less conditions to their damage to begin with, e.g Renekton, Riven, Kled, etc.), but it makes him extremely abusive in low ELOs who don't understand these nuances and this reflects honestly, probably all the way from Bronze to mid-Diamond. Players below the highest ranks will play a lot sloppier and give him more opportunities to trade and take free shots than he really should have, and their lack of coordination makes his 'scaling' into late game much, much better than he has in higher ELO unless his team is built around him. They don't play around his very long E cooldown, which is his only way to guarantee his combo of W+Q, so he looks a lot stronger than he should be.

As a Darius player myself, I strongly advise against giving him more damage. This will make him far more hated in lower ranks of play and across the general soloQ population but will very unlikely make him look appealing in coordinated play, because just stat-sticking Darius with more number buffs isn't going to make him look like a good choice.

36 Comments

Sirsir12 votes

Juggernauts as a whole are balanced around stat advantages restrained by poor utility/mobility

Tychusfindlay9183 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts as a whole are balanced around stat advantages restrained by poor utility/mobility

That's not true.

They're balanced around certain conditions and poor mobility, and because of that they NEED high stats.

Illaoi isn't expected to hit all her tentacles, darius isn't expected to hit every Q, because not only are they fairly unreliable skill shots, but they're lower range AND the champions themselves have no mobility.

So no, they aren't balanced around stat advantages, they're balanced around immobility and general unreliability.

The problematic juggernauts tend to be the ones who don't suffer from unreliability and immobility (looking at you trundle and udyr, aka zero skillshot champs with decent MS boosts).

TheSingularity1 votes

The issue is poor mobility isn't really a thing anymore. In more than just udyr and trundle.

Not saying they're op/broken. I myself love playing illaoi and yorick but I'm just trying to point out the fact that kiting isn't possible in many cases.

All of these champions are in the top 4 movement speed categories making them faster than half of the roster by default. Yes, everyone has access to flash, but if they're already on top of you (which isn't hard in lane with minions to phage off), your flashes cancel each other out resulting in the same outcome, them still being on top of u. Darius +summoner 4 summoner 6 +phase rush+item 3078 or item 3071 +item 3742 item 3800 Yorick pretty much the same minus ghost/cleaver. And then he has his wall. Chogath item 3800 summoner 4 summoner 6 DrMundo item 3742 +R+Q Urgot R slow+flip+item 3071

The only 2 juggernauts I feel don't break the mobility rule are illaoi and mordekaiser. All of the others can and will get into range very very easily with minimal investment.

Moody P2 votes

A five minute cooldown and a 90 second CD MS boost that can be bodyblocked don't make you not mobile.

'Minimal investment' being an entire item slot that still doesn't guarantee you getting into melee range against enemy carries unless they're positioned terribly.

But Mord who gets 75 MS on W doesn't break the mobility rule. You're really biased and I'm going to venture that you're only saying this because you don't see him in your games at all.

Tychusfindlay9185 votes

{quoted}

The issue is poor mobility isn't really a thing anymore. In more than just udyr and trundle.

Not saying they're op/broken. I myself love playing illaoi and yorick but I'm just trying to point out the fact that kiting isn't possible in many cases.

All of these champions are in the top 4 movement speed categories making them faster than half of the roster by default. Yes, everyone has access to flash, but if they're already on top of you (which isn't hard in lane with minions to phage off), your flashes cancel each other out resulting in the same outcome, them still being on top of u. Darius +summoner 4 summoner 6 +phase rush+item 3078 or item 3071 +item 3742 item 3800 Yorick pretty much the same minus ghost/cleaver. And then he has his wall. Chogath item 3800 summoner 4 summoner 6 DrMundo item 3742 +R+Q Urgot R slow+flip+item 3071

The only 2 juggernauts I feel don't break the mobility rule are illaoi and mordekaiser. All of the others can and will get into range very very easily with minimal investment.

Lunacy at it's best, because anyone can buy items or opt into certain Spells, that doesn't make them mobile.

Poske5 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts as a whole are balanced around stat advantages restrained by poor utility/mobility

Darius W doing 20 more damage does nothing when he dies inside 2-3 seconds past minute 20. (Unless sterak surprises then its 4 secnods) Ussual high elo darius teamfight looks like this. Darius attempts to spin dies before he spins.. he rarely spins the second time for sure unless heavly supported by support

Thats what happens when you make magic ressist and armor irelevant stats and pick favorites by putting % damage reduction on them

Mundo for example has to have 212312831028301382103 hp regen due to lack of damage reduction, darius as compensation got, oh if everyone ignores me and lets me get to 5 stacks i get massive AD boost (to bad he dies before it ever gets to that)

I mean to a high elo experienced player its clear where Riot design is silly

Juggernauts are a trash irelevant high elo class Unless you Count Vladimir and Swain as juggernauts because in a nutshell they are better versions of juggernauts

Juggernauts are meant to be as influencal as carries/mages in teamfights (damage wise) but instead they are all turned into massive anti melee lane bullies

Riot is garbage at game design what else can I say

General Matty9 votes

it would be cool if his q worked similarly to vlads e, the longer you charge it the stronger it gets, but the downside is the enemy can use mobility to get away

RekSaii3 votes

That would actually make him more busted in kind of a Niche way,

Using his Q like Vlad's E would make his W almost a must have in the trade which in of it self is not too bad most people dont trade without it.

however

One reason i see a lot of people miss his Q is simply they mistimed the spell, Allowing the Darius to choose when he is 100% in position to hit while charging it making it stronger than his base Q would be insane.

Just my 2 cents.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Matty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uMz3EW96,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-20T23:56:42.652+0000)

it would be cool if his q worked similarly to vlads e, the longer you charge it the stronger it gets, but the downside is the enemy can use mobility to get away

This actually sounds really neat.

People would be able to do instant Qs like before Darius' rework, and they can still hold it down to get the Q we have now.

Also, it would make a lot of sense with his God-King Darius skin, where the scythe opens up when you reach maximum charge.

Tahminatrix 8 votes

Give the opposing players hemorrhage.

Moody P31 votes

trying to climb soloq in season 8 gives me hemorrhage

Aseraan2 votes

Give Darius hemorrhoids......... that will help him balance it out other than that "found" that guy.

Blåbæret6 votes

I hate Darius with passion. He can feed his ass off 0/10 in lane and still remain capable of 1v1ing any champ in the game. He out-damages everything by base stats alone. You have to severely outplay this champion to even have a small shot at killing him. Meanwhile he stands there and brainlessly autos you.

Buffing his damage is beyond retarded.

Oakleaf Ranger6 votes

Really? I mean realllly?

Cause I still remember an enemy darius who was 2/0 then came mid because I was 3/0 and just killed him with 1 rotation and a half. Without ignite.

Darius is garbage right now. He doesn't even feel good when your ahead if the enemy mid and/or bot are as well.

Just get CCed and die.

Spikeman712 votes

Everything you said is wrong.

Lil Homie busta3 votes

I don't agree about the E. His E works better as a trade extender, which is the best thing for a champion like Darius. You want to use it after~while trading to keep enemies in range and negate their disruption/escape rather than using for start the trade - except when they're low health or ranged - . That being said, I think its cooldown is OK.

I just don't think he should have 340 base MS while not having any MS boost or dash. Before the preseason, most of Darius used to have MS quins. The only substitute to this is Celerity, which screws his base stats and is overnerfed. A MS buff would make much more for him than a E buff.

Malak2 votes

agree with this

DarukongSr2 votes

I've been posting this a lot, but I think what he really needs is a new dubuff mechanic like his old AS debuff. This wouldn't increase his damage, but it would make him survive longer without giving him a shield or more healing. Like maybe after three stacks he applies 5% damage debuff to enemy, 10% at 5 stacks, and 20% after 2 or three seconds of reaching 5 stacks. This way, enemies will be less encouraged to fight him straight up (like jax, tryn, fiora, sometimes Yas, etc) and instead make them try to exploits weaknesses with range, quick trades, or cc locking him. This way he can truly be King of melee (and considering his mostly backloaded damage and extreme lack of mobility and defenses, I think that would be fair) fights that last longer than 3 seconds. Enemies can always try to just run away and reset. The problem with this though is it doesn't really have skill expression, so perhaps it could also be tied to Darius performing combos in certain orders to achieve max damage reduction. Perhaps instead he could apply like a 2-3% movespeed slow perstack. The options are many, but I think Darius being a melee debuff king would suit his theme (power guy who cripples his enemies with brutal but well placed strikes, gaining noxian might and becoming more powerful relative to his enemy the longer the fight continues) because let's face it, he doesn't split push like other melee hyper carries, doesn't share their outplay potential or target access, has no escape tools and no defensive abilities, he could stand then to be the most feared fighter if nothing else. Right now plenty of more useful champs scale much better than him as is.

Dr Dormidon2 votes

Touching his numbers is just a bad idea. Honestly the guy needs something outside his stat checking nature so he will be useful for his team if he's not allowed to do that. For some reason I believe that he might be good at taking objectives without losing too much resources so people would be pretty much forced to contest or give up on objective. (Being able to activate passive on Drk/Nashor/Turrets).

Moody P2 votes

Darius isn't a stat check my man

SithesisLord2 votes

He is though. All Juggernauts are.

Moody P1 votes

No, you don't understand what a stat check is.

SaltyBoiMalum1 votes

Make his e a movement speed boost because that e guarantees a q hit and this ups his "skill" cap (no offense), and make q like a velkoz ult the longer you stay you get stacks + dmg and with three stacks you gain a tremendous bleed. A mini rework I guess. Edit: what do u darius mains think?

Just 4 Memes1 votes

Bruh I have always hated Darius. And I've always hated how the fix for Darius is always putting more damage in his kit. That champion deals so much damage, it is scary to see it on paper. I could never understand why they resist on just adding more damage to his kit all the time.

Carnicore1 votes

Lowering his E cooldown (at early levels) has possible risks. The cooldown is high to limit how frequently Darius can force trades with his opponents, so he's not as oppressive as he could be. Part of why it gives passive % armor pen (instead of something like flat penetration or plain AD) is so that his damage scales throughout the game, but he's not too tempted to max the spell earlier than level 13 or 18. The cooldown is petty short when E is maxed.

A range buff for Apprehend would be a huuuge buff to Darius, but I like it. It would help the most for dealing with ranged champions, which he struggles a lot with. It does, however, certainly affect his melee matchups too.

Libido1 votes

You are all fu id. The reason why he is not good is because he is banned in matchups that are good for him. Stop crying about being countered. Learn that some champions counter others and some scale better then others, those who scale worse tend to have better early game therefore poke and fight more. Darius will NOT get a buff, he dominated the entire season, and now when he got no nerfs people start complaining.

Saibbo1 votes

If you want Darius to be good in high elo, buffing his damage is the worst possible choice

That's the exact opposite, so now instead of abusing akali/irelia/whatever top they will abuse Darius, 4Head

Gear5Luffy1 votes

ye he needs to be able to fight longer fights not shorter ones

Alzon1 votes

In season 7 there was an undocumented range nerf to his E by about 15-20 units.

So that’s why I suddenly started shortranging all those E’s...

RankOneWakanda1 votes

the solution to almost everything in league is reducing the damage. I love walking to a team fight with 3500 hp. 220 armor. and 120MR. and dying in 3-4 seconds. and am CCed for 75% of that duration

fun game. very fun game.

Verxint1 votes

The only thing Riot knows how to do anymore is add damage

Luigi Tortellini1 votes

Wow what a well thought out and well written argument. To bad even if this got 200K upvotes Riot still wouldn't change a damn thing.

Neptunia xoxo1 votes

Nobody wants Darius to be good in high elo.

Arcane Blue Boi1 votes

Fuck, exactly Riot's always making useless buffs that wont change how the champion plays, and thus just making it more obnoxious where they already are and making no difference in where they actually want to buff that champion.

This happens too often...

SilverMaster1 votes

You are damn right. Buffing his DMG is literally too much and his E CD is literally the only thing what is killing him. I didn't even knew that his E range got nerfed. Well posted! Upvoted. [darius-angry]

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