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Sion compared to other engage tanks, mind explaining this for me?

Sorgklaan··2 votes·1,466 views

Sion's winrate takes a nosedive after 30 minutes into the game, both jungle and top. Sejuani, Malphite and Amumu on the other hand have quite stable winrates. Amumu and malphite's never really dropping below 50% until super lategame, and sejuani only getting stronger as the game goes on.

I've been told the reason for this is because Sion doesn't have the damage compared to these other engage tanks, but Sion does more damage on average than ALL of them. He has pretty much the same average number of deaths while on average taking more damage.

So why is it that Sion's winrate is so weirdly lopsided while his CC is almost the same as other engage tanks while doing more damage and taking more damage on average?

What about Sion makes his winrate so fucking weird compared to champions that are so similar and fill the same roles?

Sejuani has the benefit of starting weak and being stronger than the others later, but that still doesn't explain why his winrate is so odd compared to malphite and amumu.

http://champion.gg/champion/sejuani http://champion.gg/champion/Sion/Jungle http://champion.gg/champion/Malphite http://champion.gg/champion/amumu

12 Comments

YUUKI VK2 votes

I think to make him more reliable his Q needs to have a minimal slow and at .5 of charging his Q its a stun or root. then it turns into the current Q at one second with the knock-up

Slythion1 votes

All his cc takes time to initiate (his ult and q for instance) while amumu/sej/malphite have bursty cc that is difficult to dodge. That's about the only reason I can think of

Sorgklaan1 votes

{quoted}

All his cc takes time to initiate (his ult and q for instance) while amumu/sej/malphite have bursty cc that is difficult to dodge. That's about the only reason I can think of

Sure, that's true, but the massive difference in winrates is astounding. Sejuani makes sense, as does amumu and malphite. But Sion just drops the fuck off like pantheon. I would expect Sion and Malphite to atleast have SOMEWHAT similar winrates, with sion dropping off a little bit earlier. but sion drops off way sooner and way harder.

Prozzak1 votes

Sion takes advantage of long cd's early game compared to the others (where if they hit what they hit, the outcome pretty much stays the same). Late game when everybody has shorter cd's it is much easier to dodge what he puts out.

LessChatMorePlay1 votes

you know that you can use your skills to zone the enemy ? also, not every comp is good for sion, sion works best when your team already has some nice cc that sion can use to chain his abilities

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

Sion's CC is laughable and incredibly easy to dodge, and his base stats are so pathetic for a supposed "juggernaut" that it makes me want to puke.

Sorgklaan1 votes

{quoted}

Sion's CC is laughable and incredibly easy to dodge, and his base stats are so pathetic for a supposed "juggernaut" that it makes me want to puke.

And it's weird, because he does have shitty base stats. To me that's a clear sign he should be a lategame champion, but he's not. Pantheon has fucking awesome base stats, because he's meant to be an earlygame carry. So why is it that their winrate curve is so similar? Honestly, Sion needs some changes when the tank reworks come around.

LessChatMorePlay1 votes

sion is scaling his hp, so he need time to be unkillable, after 30 min he is almost there and can tank for days, also all his cooldowns are very low lategame. jungle sion is really op with cinderhulk, because lategame it give you about 1k hp + about 600 hp from w and 300 from mastery is 2k hp with 1 item

LessChatMorePlay1 votes

add a spirit visage 400 hp and warmog 800 hp is more than 3k hp with 3 items, still 2 items + boots to add

Sorgklaan1 votes

{quoted}

sion is scaling his hp, so he need time to be unkillable, after 30 min he is almost there and can tank for days, also all his cooldowns are very low lategame. jungle sion is really op with cinderhulk, because lategame it give you about 1k hp + about 600 hp from w and 300 from mastery is 2k hp with 1 item

Uhh, no? His winrate fucking plummets down to shit both top and jungle at 30 minutes in.

Pandemic Punch1 votes

The drop off has a lot to do with the ADC's getting to full items. Sion sucks 1v1 vs champions who can kite around all of his slow cc late, especially if they can lifesteal all of the damage dealt. The longer the game goes, the more your split pushing power and front line power goes out of the window. If you are laning against a hard carry type of champion, that will also give you a lot of problems when you get into the later part of the game.

In the later parts of the game, it will usually come down to 1v4 vs 1v4 in low elo fights. Your team might struggle a lot more vs a Riven flanking from the fog of war, or a Malphite who can blow up most squishies before they can react. Their team won't struggle vs a Sion. Even if you manage to land a full combo with Sion (including ult) you won't kill anyone. Once you use up all of your abilities, all you can do is walk around and act as a human punching bag.

Once the 1v4's are over, your team will have much lower health bars (If no deaths occur) than the enemy team's 4. Easy pickings for the enemy team from there on out. Sion's big combos fall off in terms of damage output.

For a successful teamfight to happen with a late game Sion, someone will have to be able to pick off their ADC or ADC's. Avoid the double 1v4's as much as possible.

Guyy Fieri1 votes

My best guess is that Sion main engage tool (his ult) is a lot easier to dodge then the Malph ult, Sej ult and Amumu Q-ult. As such, as the game carries on, it becomes harder for Sion to engage once people are at full build and have more move speed or simply have learned over the course of the game how to avoid the Sion ult based on how that player is playing Sion. Not sure if this is the actual reason but it's my best guess

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