"Looking at him more closely, it was the metal-mage stuff that didn't really seem to fit cohesively"

Sorgklaan·Oct 15, 2015·322 votes·9,508 views

No, it was only Mordekaiser's entire fucking identity. Him being a " metal-mage " was the thing that made him so unique, it was what the community actually liked about him. How about you just fucking rename him as well, he's not mordekaiser anymore.

FUCK OFF Ant In Oz, and just rename the champion. Rename the fucking champion so we can just declare Mordekaiser dead and move on, stop trying to claim that this piece of shit you're pushing on us is still morde. You people have destroyed his kit, his lore, even his theme and identity as a champion.

You can't do this to a character who has been around for so long and not expect the community to fucking hate you.

This is such fucking trash, look at all the special treatment Fiora and Riven got. Meanwhile Mordekaiser is dead while they kick his corpse in front of us.

168 Comments

Malicious MetalOct 15, 201581 votes

They could still fix him and save the shred of identity he hasleft if they play up the holy trinity of his being; Pain, Metal, Death

He needs to be fleshed out as a unique character and not as generic ubdead bad guy #13 Metal made him unique, it was his goddamn theme and this is something I can't tolerate. I could live with kit changes but for christ's sake don't fucking meddle with what made Morde Mordekaiser!!

We should fight over custody of Morde since riot's basically his abusive parents

RedCycloneOct 15, 201563 votes

Riot would rather alienate an entire champions playerbase then admit they fucked up

This is the state of the game, any champion who isn't their favorites is subject to be flipped upside down and be moved as far away from their identity as possible Once upon a time Sona built support aura items to help her team out, now she doesn't even usually get a sightstone because it sets her damage back from lack of AP Cassiopia was a lanebully who scaled okay into mid/lategame, now she has to play a stupid minigame to get power now her laning phase is weak as shit Plenty more are out there, even Sion players who loved old Sions 2 playstyles of being a lifesteal tank or a burst AP mage is removed now, it may be considered a great rework, but im willing to bet some people still shed a tear on 100% lifesteal chunkyman

Dar RaksadaOct 15, 201519 votes

{quoted}

Riot would rather alienate an entire champions playerbase then admit they fucked up

This is the state of the game, any champion who isn't their favorites is subject to be flipped upside down and be moved as far away from their identity as possible Once upon a time Sona built support aura items to help her team out, now she doesn't even usually get a sightstone because it sets her damage back from lack of AP Cassiopia was a lanebully who scaled okay into mid/lategame, now she has to play a stupid minigame to get power now her laning phase is weak as shit Plenty more are out there, even Sion players who loved old Sions 2 playstyles of being a lifesteal tank or a burst AP mage is removed now

That's always been the case.

Twitch Karma Cassiopeia Mordekaiser

And the ones you said ofc. Twitch was the earliest example I think? With the stealth rework in season 1 or 2

RedCycloneOct 15, 20153 votes

Not quite sure on that, I remember Soraka being one of the first reworked champions, because they wanted to distance healing champions, Didn't do much though

Dar RaksadaOct 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Not quite sure on that, I remember Soraka being one of the first reworked champions, because they wanted to distance healing champions, Didn't do much though

did that rework piss off the fanbase? Because that's what I was referring to. But I might've been wrong of course.

RedCycloneOct 15, 201515 votes

Pretty sure it did with the whole fiasco on dedicated healers with Morello sniping Soraka players saying they have no place in the game

Dar RaksadaOct 15, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure it did with the whole fiasco on dedicated healers with Morello sniping Soraka players saying they have no place in the game

I stand corrected.

RalanrOct 15, 20151 votes

Isn't a lane bully that scales ok into mid/late considered toxic?

Edit: Was just asking a question.

The Yetii RiderOct 15, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Isn't a lane bully that scales ok into mid/late considered toxic?

You are describing Leona, Thresh, Blitzcrank, Braum and Gnar, so no. Lane pressure that scales into mid and late is what is defining the meta right now.

alfavhunterOct 15, 201513 votes

{quoted}

Isn't a lane bully that scales ok into mid/late considered toxic?

He has no mobility, never did. That and the lack of any CC was what made him balanced

He also endlessly pushed his wave so he was easily ganked to shut his late game down

But mord is dead now

In body (rework) mind (lore) and soul (identity)

The Yetii RiderOct 15, 201526 votes

{quoted}

Riot would rather alienate an entire champions playerbase then admit they fucked up

This is the state of the game, any champion who isn't their favorites is subject to be flipped upside down and be moved as far away from their identity as possible Once upon a time Sona built support aura items to help her team out, now she doesn't even usually get a sightstone because it sets her damage back from lack of AP Cassiopia was a lanebully who scaled okay into mid/lategame, now she has to play a stupid minigame to get power now her laning phase is weak as shit Plenty more are out there, even Sion players who loved old Sions 2 playstyles of being a lifesteal tank or a burst AP mage is removed now

That's all nice but you probably shouldn't bring up Riot's most successful rework ever in that discussion, complaining that some people liked old Sion is just going to make you sound like a whiny kid. Sion got an amazing visual update and VO, the Resurrection lore was fantastic, and he actually uses his axe in his kit now.

RIP Morde though.

RedCycloneOct 15, 201512 votes

I agree that it was successful, still does not mean that there were not people out there who liked playing old Sion

nothing from old Sion really translated to new Sion other then the stacking health passive

I probably should not have made that connection, as you can simply just say "reworks change champs, its the entire purpose of a rework" Lets just keep it binary Good reworks = good Bad reworks = bad

sadly more bad ones exist then good ones

The Yetii RiderOct 15, 201511 votes

{quoted}

I agree that it was successful, still does not mean that there were not people out there who liked playing old Sion

In the legal profession, there are many precedent cases one can draw upon to defend an argument. But you pick and choose. If you cite two really good precedents and one that theoretically helps your argument but has no respect from the majority of the community, you are screwing yourself.

Trundle, Sejuani, Sion, Gangplank, Fiora, and Master Yi were all great reworks. They have the core of the champion still there even for people who complain that they can't go AP Yi or point and click Fiora anymore.

Mordekaiser, Cassieopeia, and Sona all lost what made them special. They were changed at their core and their gameplay became functionally different.

SpitemasterOct 15, 201524 votes

And Karma. Why does nobody think about Karma? She lost what made her special too. And they removed the last traces of the old Karma with the shield damage nerf. :(

LuciferOct 15, 201513 votes

No one talks about Karma. We're not even sure that's her name anymore.

Vistha KaiOct 15, 201512 votes

Compare pre- and post- rework Karma lores.

Karma is figuratively and literally dead.

BaculusOct 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That's all nice but you probably shouldn't bring up Riot's most successful rework ever in that discussion, complaining that some people liked old Sion is just going to make you sound like a whiny kid. Sion got an amazing visual update and VO, the Resurrection lore was fantastic, and he actually uses his axe in his kit now.

RIP Morde though.

"I DIDNT LIKE OLD SION AS MUCH AS NEW SION SO PEOPLE SAYING THE CHAMPION WAS DELETED AND RUINED IS WRONG"

Yeah. No. Old Sion was great and the 'New Sion' has nothing to do with old Sion. They could've just released the Sion 'rework' as a new champion and no one would've noticed that it was intended to be a 'rework', and that's a problem... at least since Old Sion players didn't get the option refunds.

So, in the end, you just sound like a 'whiny kid' who can't understand that there were people out there who seriously played these champs before the rework and got shafted.

The Yetii RiderOct 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"I DIDNT LIKE OLD SION AS MUCH AS NEW SION SO PEOPLE SAYING THE CHAMPION WAS DELETED AND RUINED IS WRONG"

Yeah. No. Old Sion was great and the 'New Sion' has nothing to do with old Sion. They could've just released the Sion 'rework' as a new champion and no one would've noticed that it was intended to be a 'rework', and that's a problem... at least since Old Sion players didn't get the option refunds.

So, in the end, you just sound like a 'whiny kid' who can't understand that there were people out there who seriously played these champs before the rework and got shafted.

For starters, old Sion had an RNG-based passive, and pretty much every RNG effect had already been phased out of the game, except Twisted Fate's passive which is thematically appropriate and does not affect your ability to kill him like Sion's did.

Old Sion was intimidating, he was a lumbering warrior, and he had a big axe. Also, he had a big shield that could explode and infinite health scaling, both of which were kept and the health scaling was actually made far better (for junglers. 10 extra health per large monster)

His AP ratios were way too high for the amount of tankiness he got, same problem we had with Cho'Gath mid, and Meddler did express some interest in lowering his AP ratios but then Cho stopped being played so Riot started working on other things.

BaculusOct 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

For starters, old Sion had an RNG-based passive, and pretty much every RNG effect had already been phased out of the game, except Twisted Fate's passive which is thematically appropriate and does not affect your ability to kill him like Sion's did.

Old Sion was intimidating, he was a lumbering warrior, and he had a big axe. Also, he had a big shield that could explode and infinite health scaling, both of which were kept and the health scaling was actually made far better (for junglers. 10 extra health per large monster)

His AP ratios were way too high for the amount of tankiness he got, same problem we had with Cho'Gath mid, and Meddler did express some interest in lowering his AP ratios but then Cho stopped being played so Riot started working on other things.

See, none of this is actually relevant to my original point. A RNG based passive could easily be tweaked to a solid number; it's a non-issue when it comes to balancing.

The problem is that everything you described (From having strong AP ratios, to the lane dynamic, the burst style of Sion) have been removed. The Sion that I played is completely unrelated to the current Sion; there's nothing in common with their playstyle between the two. Even the 'big shield that explodes' is fully different in function (On old sion, it was one of his two methods of strong offense/burst that was reduced by taking damage). Now you have a much lesser scaling shield, a Q that's a charge mechanic, and some differing health scaling.

And if the serious issue was 'too high for the amount of tankiness'? They fixed that by giving him more tankiness? Since old Sion, when done right, wasn't exceedingly tanky without harming his damage (now he does tons of damage, too). He was a balancing act compared to the current iteration of HAM; more of an assassin than anything.

Same thing with Fiora, who you keep mentioning despite the two having little in common (pre and post rework). From their playstyle, itemization, and roles- they're completely different. Especially the ult; that alone should've warranted the option for refunds if people so chose since it was the single largest reason to pick up Fiora. Love it or hate it, it'd be like replacing Twisted Fates' ultimate with another on-hit ability- they're not close to being equatable.

You can argue till you're blue in the face that "Oh, this totally fits the REST of the game better! (and I like playing against it more!)". Doesn't change that the people who picked, invested, and spent money into a champion no longer have that champion to play. Riot removed the content they bought from the game and replaced it with something completely different. So, if someone wants to complain about a rework that you personally enjoy (Such as Sion or Fiora); it's fully reasonable for them to do so.

DaenOct 15, 20153 votes

Once upon a time Sona built support aura items to help her team out, now she doesn't even usually get a sightstone because it sets her damage back from lack of AP

Even now, if Sona isn't getting a Sightstone she's not playing correctly. Yes, AP helps her damage, but as a utility support she should be focusing on...utility.

Cassiopia was a lanebully who scaled okay into mid/lategame, now she has to play a stupid minigame to get power now her laning phase is weak as shit

I have no idea why they decided to change Cassiopeia in that way. Her identities were as such:

Poison mage
Zone control
Lane bully

The rework moved her away from being a posion mage, making the poison just facilitate Twin Fang. Her zone control is still there, but it's more along the lines of "if you're poisoned don't get anywhere near her" now rather than actually zoning. She's still...kind of a lane bully, but only because of the aforementioned concepts.

even Sion players who loved old Sions 2 playstyles of being a lifesteal tank or a burst AP mage is removed now, it may be considered a great rework, but im willing to bet some people still shed a tear on 100% lifesteal chunkyman

To be perfectly honest, this audience isn't feasible to support. The original design of Sion was pretty split, it wasn't particularly healthy/engaging, and the visual elements didn't match his theme. With the rework, Riot was able to make him into a really compelling champion; all of his elements fit together well.

Did some people not like the rework? Probably not, but the old version was not good for the game overall.

RedCycloneOct 15, 20157 votes

it's clear you don't play Sona, she can't do anything without AP heal becomes shit, damage is shit, and ultimately her utility is shit without AP You can get sightstone on her yes, but that 800g hole really shows

Not much of a cass player, I know that her playerbase hates the rework with a passion

Already explained the Sion thing, chill

Ulquiorra995Oct 15, 201511 votes

This is just purring salt into the wound. As a metalhead Morde was the first champion I bought way back in S1 and my main for the longest time. Even if I didn't play him that much lately he remains in a special place for me. Besides, I really don't get the chain of thoughts happening at Riot about Morde.

Rioter 1: "Guys, we've managed to turn Mordekaiser's kit into an abomination, royally pissing off both Morde and non-Morde players. What should we do next?"

Rioter 2: "I know! Let's also destroy his identity by removing metal from his ability and title! We should give him generic darkness abilities and an extremely bland title because it's cool and dark and edgy and kids with their mom's credit cards will buy it!."

HawkefireOct 15, 20158 votes

You know, it is funny, your biggest counter argument towards the rework was that it didn't fit his title (The Master of Metal), among other things. So then Riot goes and replaces his title with something completely different.

The cynic in me is thinking that Riot is only doing this to eliminate one of the (very many) very valid criticisms of this rework.

SorgklaanOct 15, 201543 votes

It's so infuriating because no matter what, they won't listen to us. Even when we do get riot to reply, it's always just this condescending bullshit.

We just want Mordekaiser back, we want the character back we used to love. We're tired of being jerked around and treated like we just don't know shit.

Serge THE GREATOct 15, 201533 votes

Also, it's THEIR fault for not reworking his kit around more metal. Not Mordekaiser's. They are the ones who actively chose to make his particle effects different, and they are the ones who chose to make him a bottom laner. You can't purposefully sabotage a champion's identity and then say 'Oh, for some reason this doesn't make sense! We better change it more!'

junglerboy16Oct 15, 201529 votes

Mordekaiser ........ ........ ............................ ........ .................. ........ ............................ ........ ................................

Mordekaiser ........ ........... ........... ............ ..... ....... ....... ................. ........ ....... ....... ................. ....... .......... ....... ....... ................. ............. .... ........... ..................... .....

Stars ShaperOct 15, 20153 votes

replace dots with item 3070 plox

TransgressorOct 15, 201513 votes

No thanks, that will make our eyes bleed.

DestínumOct 15, 201527 votes

I've never even played Morde, and I've kept a fairly positive attitude towards every rework Riot has done (even if I haven't fully agreed with all of them), but this is just taking it too far and being lazy. Mordekaisers theme's aren't even that hard to put together and make it work. For example, a draft I came up with literally right now in a few seconds:

He's a hateful, undead spirit (the first of the Shadow Isles) that was a master of death magic, but was fused with a metal suit to limit his powers. Mordekaiser being Mordekaiser though, took advantage of his new body and started ripping himself appart and using the scraps as his new primary way of fighting (thus why his abilities cost health).

Boom, done. If I can make it work decently, a team of professional writers should have no problem. After the rework, Morde is a now a completely different champion besides in name and appearance.

Remlap1223Oct 15, 20157 votes

No, you see, that's the issue. You just made too much sense.

3TWarriorOct 15, 20157 votes

this is awesome...please hire this person Riot Games

you not only kept most of his original identity (an undead general whose only pleasure left was torturing living souls and then their afterlife) and made his abilities make sense in the process

his magic always controlled metal to do the work for him...if they make his visuals look like kassadin's void thing...I may never play him again...even if that's not why I played him

what do people want to see more? weapons erupting from the ground, bursting with electricity...or a vanishing act

Blue Moon WolfOct 15, 201518 votes

I just love the excuses I've read for them as well:

Mordekaiser new title: the lord of death "We didn't make changes like this lightly and we refuse to revert it cause it doesn't fit his new direction we're taking him" Fiora new title: mistress of the blades ONE petition to keep her current tile and riot said " lol JK, we'll keep her title the same :p"

Mordekaiser Completely altered 2 abilities and gave him 2 stupid gimmicks "we know what we are doing, so we're gonna rush him out and everything is gonna stay the same" followed by gutting his W so he can be "viable" solo Riven adding an edge bar that decide how much damage her ult does so she can't do a full combo on you and then wipe you out with her Skillshot/AOE ult, hardly changing anything else Hardly anyone had any issues (didn't even hear complaints from people who main her), but then:"We don't like to rush champ changes and we were just testing it on the PBE, so we are taking it back to the drawing board"

apparently riots company motto is "picking favorites is our bread, contradiction is our butter"

Ser GarlandOct 15, 201515 votes

Mordekaiser literally means Death lord. JUST SAYIN

DalthineOct 15, 201532 votes

So he will now be Death Lord, the Lord of Death.

WarlockLawOct 15, 201511 votes

Alternatively Mordekaiser, the Mordekaiser

MadraOct 15, 201515 votes

The Metal Mage persona and the Heavy Metal inspired powers was what made Mordekaiser a cool champion. It seems like Riot is just going to do what Riot wants to do, and they are left trying to spin it whatever which way they can.

OmniphonicOct 15, 201514 votes

it's most likely a show of solidarity for certainlyTumorous. they're all sitting around a bonfire in the riot offices, popping riddlin and burning effigies of Kennedy right now as we speak. proclaiming their undying bonds to each other while ritually mutilating themselves and drawing arcane symbols in their own blood. face it, riot's totally hollywood now.

DrNovaOct 15, 20152 votes

I prefer CancerlyT

HeadHonchkrowOct 16, 20152 votes

Why not CancerlyTumorous

KaipopOct 15, 201514 votes

They aren't going to listen, they didn't for Karma. I hope both of them get remade as different champs with similar abilities.

DrNovaOct 15, 20151 votes

Karma is currently good though

KaipopOct 15, 20154 votes

Mord is really good too, in terms of strength. But neither of them are the champions they were before

DrNovaOct 15, 20155 votes

The difference is karma has a natural kit, while mord has a bunch of gimmicks, some unfair, to force him into a lane he never was considered for. Its a forced experiment to force a new meta while they have also nerfed a bunch of champs for being able play lanes outside the meta riot accepts while they also claim to not enforce a meta.

Vistha KaiOct 15, 201513 votes

Karma has a natural kit. Somebody hold me.

Karma was based on Yin-Yang, each of her abilities had an offensive and defensive side, either through Mantra(Heavenly Wave and Soul Shield) or naturally (Spirit Bond). Heavenly Wave was damage, Mantra'd was heal, Soul Shield was... shield and Mantra'd was damage, Spirit Bond for allies was a haste and for enemies slow.

Now it's damage->more damage, root->longer root, shield->more shield.

There is no duality, this is fucking Lux's kit, except without an actual ultimate.

ihaveapotionOct 16, 20152 votes

i still miss playing true karma, the travesty riot turned it into literally irl angers me to this day.

ipressonebuttonOct 15, 201510 votes

I'm all for expressing opinions and frustration with a company but next time don't use so much profanity. It looks unprofessional, tasteless and the people you want to see it will probably ignore it because it looks childish. You can easily express a point without the use of so many f-bombs. You made very valid points, and I agree with every point you said, I'm just saying the delivery could've been much better without looking so nuch like every other QQ post that riot tends to ignore.

Cis7v0Oct 16, 20155 votes

if this was riven or lee they would have changed it and apologized for it.

but lets wait and see. if it goes to live then riot has lost all respect for the ones that play the game. cause we all know its the ones who main the non-meta champs that make this game. they are the loyal ones.

and really is a name change necessary? unless its something like "lord of lighting" on a champ that uses water spells would i understand the change.

dont change a champs title cause you guys fucked up and are to fucking full of yourselves to admit it.

LudovicoOct 16, 20153 votes

A bit off-topic, but can we please rename Karma as well?

Her current... "champiness" has nothing to do with that.

Hayaishi2Oct 16, 20151 votes

There's nothing in Mordekaiser's kit that makes you think he's the "Master of metal"

A metal mage would actually control metal to do his bidding, yet Morde uses magic/controls ghosts.

Riot would be required to change his kit into an actual metal mage, but you Morde fans would never allow it, so they change his title to a much more appropriate term that fits his lore, his kit, and even the shadow Isles.

Keep in mind that i'm never one to defend Riot's reworks or lore changes, but this change makes ALOT of sense and the fact that you morde fans pull the usual "Riot only cares about populars herp derp" "change makes no sense" instead of looking at the facts is rubbish and shows why they never listen to us, your bias doesn't allow you to see the most obvious stuff, even his name means Lord of Death.

Lmao even look at OPs opening line "Master of metal was his entire fucking identity" are you even serious?

"It was what the community liked about him!" What? i'm pretty sure his ultimate is the most recognizable and likable thing in his whole bland kit, and it has nothing to do with metal.

Why does this even have upvotes? because the sheep only came to bash Riot, despite having no reason to.

NemeBroOct 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

There's nothing in Mordekaiser's kit that makes you think he's the "Master of metal"

A metal mage would actually control metal to do his bidding, yet Morde uses magic/controls ghosts.

Riot would be required to change his kit into an actual metal mage, but you Morde fans would never allow it, so they change his title to a much more appropriate term that fits his lore, his kit, and even the shadow Isles.

Keep in mind that i'm never one to defend Riot's reworks or lore changes, but this change makes ALOT of sense and the fact that you morde fans pull the usual "Riot only cares about populars herp derp" "change makes no sense" instead of looking at the facts is rubbish and shows why they never listen to us, your bias doesn't allow you to see the most obvious stuff, even his name means Lord of Death.

Lmao even look at OPs opening line "Master of metal was his entire fucking identity" are you even serious?

"It was what the community liked about him!" What? i'm pretty sure his ultimate is the most recognizable and likable thing in his whole bland kit, and it has nothing to do with metal.

Why does this even have upvotes? because the sheep only came to bash Riot, despite having no reason to.

Mordekaiser did use metal in his kit. Before the rework, anyway.

His Q sent shards of metal flying at enemies. His W was a whirlwind of metal that surrounded him. His E spawned metal maces under your ass that hit you in the nuts (to be honest I never liked the animation for this one, that a "Siphon of Destruction" was basically a testicle-crushing metal hammer was weird). His passive was a barrier of metal.

Only his R didn't have anything to do with metal. So basically, Mordekaiser's entire kit sans ult had to do with controlling metal... before Riot changed it. So they're justifying this change nobody asked for with another change nobody asked for.

You're dumb.

P.S. You're right about people bitching about how Riven's rework was taken down though. Fuck those people. That rework was stupid. Morde mains shouldn't want the mains of other champion to deal with what they are.