Does anybody else like the changes to turrets

Pierce The Veal·Nov 12, 2015·6 votes·3,822 views

It feels like I'm back in season 2 again, where individual contribution matters, and games don't take 50+ minutes

23 Comments

BluePolarizerNov 12, 20157 votes

lol you can't solo carry anymore because you can't efficiently ward up as a side laner. but one feeder can sink your entire team. welcome to the paradox of no solo winning, only solo losing.

Pierce The VealNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

lol you can't solo carry anymore because you can't efficiently ward up as a side laner. but one feeder can sink your entire team. welcome to the paradox of no solo winning, only solo losing.

Which means: play better roamers. And if you want to play an immobile champ? Make use of the minion changes to freeze lane permanently.

Earl EulrichNov 12, 20153 votes

S2 games were rather famous for the long playtime (#CLG EU comeback)...

Pierce The VealNov 13, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u3Y8YfGF,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-12T20:40:25.096+0000)

S2 games were rather famous for the long playtime (#CLG EU comeback)...

Not nearly compared to season 4 and 5. S2 games were long when it was evenly matched. S4 and S5 took long to win even when 10+kills ahead.

Earl EulrichNov 13, 20152 votes

mostly because of a lack of action from the playerside, not because the game itself didn´t already allow for closing out games swiftly with a little risk (maybe just watch some of the SSW games during S4 worlds...and then compare it to S2 pro-games).

DRAGOON BurstNov 12, 20151 votes

No.

Pierce The VealNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No.

This IS gameplay after all :/

RiotMeddlerNov 12, 20151 votes

Which changes to turrets are you thinking of?

realywierdNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Which changes to turrets are you thinking of?

Some people are dying to have a rioter respond to their post, with "rito pls read this now need red post or I will quit game forever". Now, you post and crickets... what gives? haha

FANTAsticOrangeNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Which changes to turrets are you thinking of?

I think he is referring to the health increase and removal of mr and armor stats. I think it is more sarcasm suggesting that minions and siege comps have a much easier time taking towers, as well as early game Jungler + mid/top laner after a kill.

RiotMeddlerNov 12, 20151 votes

Edit: Turns out there are some overall reductions in I wasn't aware of, as per follow up post lower down.

In 5.22 at least turrets themselves effectively shouldn't have changed. They take twice as much damage, but have twice as much health, so the only real differences are the removal of shields from the inner top/bot towers and Janna's E being much less effective on turrets (unsure if we'll want to do anything about that one, certainly aware of it though).

It's possible other factors are causing towers to fall quicker of course (more ADCs being played, more strong early game comps, lack of tanks/other control characters etc) but we're also still really early in a patch with a lot of changes that people are experimenting with and adapting to, so things will be a bit shaken up for a little while (point of preseason).

AbyssphereNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In 5.22 at least turrets themselves effectively shouldn't have changed. They take twice as much damage, but have twice as much health, so the only real differences are the removal of shields from the inner top/bot towers and Janna's E being much less effective on turrets (unsure if we'll want to do anything about that one, certainly aware of it though).

It's possible other factors are causing towers to fall quicker of course (more ADCs being played, more strong early game comps, lack of tanks/other control characters etc) but we're also still really early in a patch with a lot of changes that people are experimenting with and adapting to, so things will be a bit shaken up for a little while (point of preseason).

Eh? In the patch rundown I saw Scarizard and Fearless talking extensively about what would result from turrets being squishier than last season. Surely they're not as tanky as last season?

DreamLeviathanNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In 5.22 at least turrets themselves effectively shouldn't have changed. They take twice as much damage, but have twice as much health, so the only real differences are the removal of shields from the inner top/bot towers and Janna's E being much less effective on turrets (unsure if we'll want to do anything about that one, certainly aware of it though).

It's possible other factors are causing towers to fall quicker of course (more ADCs being played, more strong early game comps, lack of tanks/other control characters etc) but we're also still really early in a patch with a lot of changes that people are experimenting with and adapting to, so things will be a bit shaken up for a little while (point of preseason).

One issue might be that they DON'T have twice as much health. By the patch notes, the outer towers got NEARLY doubled (75% increase), but no other tower comes even close to that kind of increase.

RiotMeddlerNov 12, 20153 votes

My bad, just spoke with the folks working on the tower changes and there was a reduction to tower health in there I wasn't aware of. We'll be looking at that this week and early next week, assess whether or not it's doing good things and whether we need to make follow up changes.

CherysseNov 12, 20151 votes

Hey Meddler, :3

Please Meddler consider this! Return the blind to my sister Quinn and add it to her ult!

Or at least return her to the s5 state in the beta and try another change, many of us (those who played Quinn for a really long time) feel that she now has lost a lot of potential and she still has the same weaknesses and even more while doing less damage.

My proposal:

Q: if Quinn uses her R while the Q missile (valor) is flying she will appear upon the location of the Q missile or where it recently landed, also Valor can use the Q like a quick Vi type dash. -this grants better scapes and engages for Valor-, upon activation the Q applies the area damage.

R: new passive: allows Quinn and Valor to use her E over the ground as a dash. (So if you enter with your Q in Valor form you can save your E to disengage, still the range is short, but allows you to go safe after risking it all!)

Also with this on Valor he could trully fly (isn't it the whole idea behind Quinn?), spending up to 190 mana to travel a good distance and pass through walls.

Like this you can compense her gameplay withouth affecting her kit and her identity, I can even see her being played on the LCS at the toplane or in the jungle with my proposal!

Please don't reduce Valor to a taxi cab! Even you have said that she doesn't perform as well as she should at botlane! so whats the point? If you made these changes to turn her into a legit ADC and yet it doesn't work why not try another thing?

Please try to make her into a full legit top-jungle champ! There are already A LOT of good options for ADC botlane champs, why not make her into a jungler top? it fits better with her identity and her LORE, she flies alone through the wilderness and ambushes the enemy whenever she can! please consider these changes!

With love, Chery!

DRAGOON BurstNov 12, 20152 votes

Oh, and don't forget this. I've seen the armor of the towers blinking their REAL armor per minute. Say at a 15 minute mark, when minions are nearby, it will blink to 0 and then to 30 real quick and then 0 again. Repeatedly.

LongHair FoxNov 13, 20151 votes

What were the goals of this shift in tower defense? I am assuming to get them down faster but is it supposed to end lane faster or result in faster games overall? Or maybe something else?

Huang ShaotianNov 12, 20151 votes

Meddler can you please give some context on the teemo stealth nerfs. I'm getting around 1000g per game less as support teemo thanks to the changes.

Earl EulrichNov 12, 20151 votes

previously outer turrets had 2000health and 100armor/mr (->50%dmg reduction), so effectivly you had to deal 4000dmg to kill them. Now they have 3500health and 0armor/mr, so effectivly you need to deal 3500dmg to kill them. That´s a loss of 500 effective hp on outers.

for inners it´s far worse: previously they had 2500hp and 100armor/mr, eo effectivly you needed to deal 5000dmg to kill them Now they have 3500hp and 0armor/mr - so you only need to deal 3500dmg to kill them. That´s a loss of 1500 effective hp!

for inhibitor turrets to make it short: previously 5,6k effective hp, now 4k....a loss of 1,6k effective hp.

So all in all you have to deal 3,6k dmg less to get an open inhibitor now after the changes, meaning they could add a new turret in between the outer and inner of the same tier as those 2 - and you´d still need less dmg than previously to reach the inhibitor.

just to quote myself - though someone in your development team should be capable of that sort of basic math i hope.

FxtrttUnfrmNov 13, 20151 votes

"much less effective" is an understatement of how bad Janna's E on turrets really is. It's barely even worth using.

Together with the nerfs to EVERY SINGLE ONE of her abilities she got a few patches ago, this patch must have been the most frustrating for me. I've been playing Janna with Exhaust/CV summoners pretty much exclusively for almost 4 years now. Weren't you trying to create meaningful choices? You basically reached the exact opposite situation. Janna {{summoner:2}} item 3070

StoningtonNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It feels like I'm back in season 2 again, where individual contribution matters, and games don't take 50+ minutes

I'd say season 3, but I completely agree with the sentiment. Lovin' the changes.

RaptorKarrNov 13, 20151 votes

Jeez gameplay broads are brutal say anything positive DOWNVOTES!

Pierce The VealNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Jeez gameplay broads are brutal say anything positive DOWNVOTES!

Pretty much

{quoted}

My bad, just spoke with the folks working on the tower changes and there was a reduction to tower health in there I wasn't aware of. We'll be looking at that this week and early next week, assess whether or not it's doing good things and whether we need to make follow up changes.

So far I think it's honestly great. Towers do become more like objectives and less like hulking pieces of steel (that shoot you) and canmt be destroyed for a long time.

I also find the rift crab really interesting, as it means that on a mobile champion you can help all the lanes push. This gives you many different options of play. And it also means adcs need to be more combat focused as towers fall faster (as opposed to being focused on taking towers).