Veigar is becoming very binary

Clint Orris·Mar 14, 2015·8 votes·1,144 views

They only choice I seem like having now is farming my Q non-stop to make my ult strong enough to possibly one shot their carry. Anyone else feel the same?

30 Comments

TalamareMar 14, 20153 votes

I thought the idea was to randomly spam E with your new massive amount of mana regen until you get lucky

LordDarkshaydeMar 14, 20153 votes

And this is different from how Veigar was played before how?

DrCyanideMar 14, 20152 votes

Q was used more for harass, and you had this third damage ability you could land on people when you stunned them.

LordDarkshaydeMar 14, 20152 votes

Q was never used for harass on Veigar pre-rework it was used to last hit minions and farm up AP. Try again...

DrCyanideMar 14, 20153 votes

It was a combination of the two. Every decent guide and pro stream advised poking them back with Q early because of the damage it dealt. A low health enemy is less likely to jump in your face than a full health one. The difference between the two styles was night and day, with poke being more effective.

Lord DusteonMar 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Q was never used for harass on Veigar pre-rework it was used to last hit minions and farm up AP. Try again...

Did you ever play pre rework Veigar? His Q was almost only used for the free harass early, as if you push the enemy to low health it discourages them for jumping in and killing you (and the difference between +6 AP or the enemy laner being scared to nuke you is huge. You can make up the miniscule AP loss later, when mana isn't a massive constraint and you can actually burst the enemy laner down).

SouL1essMar 14, 20152 votes

definitely did not play veigar before rework

Clint OrrisMar 14, 20152 votes

Before his rework Q was used to farm and whittle down the enemy. Once you feel the enemy is low enough, you go in for the kill. Pretty plain and simple.
Now, his only option in lane is to only power farm with Q. Doing so now puts in him in unfavorable positions where he will be more susceptible to be poked. His harass potential has been severely reduced. Now unless your mid lane is completely stupid, you have to reply heavily on your jungler to get a kill. So he pretty much has the same concept but 20x more difficult for absolutely no reason.

SouL1essMar 15, 20151 votes

Yeah, I was responding to the person who only used pre-rework Q to farm in lane...

EedatMar 14, 20153 votes

His Q can now be used to harass and stack AP if used correctly. Yes, it is more difficult to use his Q now but I think it was an overall buff to him. It's the rest of his kit that got gutted.

Leti the YetiMar 14, 20151 votes

okay so what I understand is prework veig can.. at the very least all-in the other guy at some point

post work veig.... just farms like Nasus lol

Athenes LuluMar 14, 20153 votes

He used to be more binary before 5.4.

Instant stun + Q being a targeted spell are already enough to make him an "either you kill someone ASAP or you die ASAP" kind of champ.

The rework actually makes him less binary because you can dodge his shit now.

Clint OrrisMar 14, 20151 votes

I am talking about how playing AS him is becoming binary. Now he is FORCED to farm his Q and that's it. When you see him come up on the loading screen, you wont have to worry about being poked from him. That's what I mean when I say he's more binary than before.

WheatloafMar 14, 20152 votes

Part of the goals of the Veigar changes were to make sure 1-shotting carries wasn't his only option :s

Clint OrrisMar 14, 20152 votes

Ok because it's working so well. WHAT ELSE MUST HE DO. He's a FUCKIN burst mage for God sake. That's the whole point of a burst mage. That's why people pick burst mages and that it to one shot the squishies. He's not a poke champ or a kiting champ. When people pick veigar they do not want poke or "almost" kill them. They wanna burst and they wanna burst hard.

WheatloafMar 15, 20151 votes

But why does that have to be the only thing he does...?

Anyway, his Q's range has been buffed to 950 on the PBE, so it's entirely possible he'll gain the option to poke while farming.

Also:

[{quoted}](name=Punish This Hole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tvPlJTkE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-03-14T23:10:15.982+0000)

He's not a poke champ or a kiting champ. When people pick veigar they do not want poke or "almost" kill them.

Didn't your original post argue Veigar was more binary because he couldn't poke? And now we're supposed to not want to do that?

Clint OrrisMar 15, 20152 votes

I am upset because he is unable to do both. He does not have the resouces to do both. If he could, sure, but its not possible.

WheatloafMar 15, 20151 votes

They're doing what they can to try and give him the tools to do both. Just remember that when they're done, he won't be able to do either as reliably as he could before. The full 100-0 combo won't be something you can do every fight, but it'll still exist. Unfortunately, in order to give Veigar more options, Riot also had to give his enemy more options.

imho he could probably still use a full rework, but I won't complain if Riot wants to try to make him more useable in the meantime. He didn't need it nearly as bad as Urgot, but they had said they would compensate DFG champions, and there was just no way they could justify buffing Veigar without changes some of his mechanics (it turned out that DFG wasn't quite as core to his build as people thought).

MeserionMar 14, 20152 votes

He has always been binary, its how he was made. The only difference now is he more quickly hits a power spike because of the Qs you can get from his Q

Clint OrrisMar 14, 20152 votes

He does not hit a power spike anywhere near his prework due to the fact that his burst potential is extremely lower. He gets more AP, but that doe's not mean that he will be able to kill anything with that extra AP.

SouL1essMar 15, 20152 votes

hit a power spike

He lost reliability in landing a damaging skillshot.

How does losing damage make him hit a power spike sooner?

LANWhaleMar 14, 20151 votes

Ya they kinda ruined him. In the sense that no matter how many buffs and tweaks you give him, **he'll never been the same. **

Which kinda ruins it for Veigar mains. I understand that its only a different play style but that's all that needs to happen to make Veigar mains mad and sad.

SolahrityMar 14, 20151 votes

The warning on his stun is so long its now extremely hard to land dark matter

lightdragoon88Mar 14, 20151 votes

Nasus

OJ191Mar 14, 20151 votes

I feel like half the forums just comment on the veigar threads without having any comprehension of how he used to work

ThePlasticSporkMar 14, 20151 votes

Veigar pretty much fit the bill for most binary champ before his rework. The only champions I can think of that fit the bill for being more binary are Rengar and maybe Talon.

SleepyLionCubMar 15, 20151 votes

If the new veigar is Binary, then the old veigar is singulary.

He is more complex now, more skillshots, more farming techniques, and while underpowered atm, overall more healthy.

Big LincolnMar 15, 20151 votes

No he isn't. It's almost the exact same thing.

The only difference is that instead of it being "can veigar CC you first/burst you faster" it's turned into "did veigar land his Q/were you dumb enough to walk into his stun"

Still the same result. Still binary. And it feels a lot worse to play.