And got got 200 points...but I can go 2 - 10 and get carried to a win and get 1400 points.....How does this make any sense.
This makes losing feel a billion times worse when you were doing so well.
EDIT: Here's the link to the match history if you're so skeptial about my playstyle.
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1824383994/35638941?tab=overview
Adrian Umbra92 votesI understand the idea that win/loss should matter for champion mastery, but when you're getting 6-7 times as many points for a win as for a loss, it REALLY doesn't feel good. Champion mastery then becomes "How many games have I won on this champion?" rather than "How good am I with this champion?" which IMO isn't the point of the system. If someone on my team is high ranked with a champion, I don't want to have to wonder if they just got carried by better teammates/friends or if they're actually good (I already have to do enough of that with ranks), and it's destroying my trust in the system.
I agree that there needs to be an incentive to WIN and not just to fluff up your KDA, but 6-7 times seems a little high for these situations. Either grade needs to be more of a factor or win/loss needs to be less of a factor (2-4 times should be enough). As is, the system is just weighted far too heavily in favor of winning the game, regardless of personal performance (this from someone who only focuses on winning the game and has yet to get below a B rank).
Losing when you're doing well already feels bad enough, this feels like adding insult to injury, taking that loss and making your grade mean so little that it doesn't really matter how well you did.
JustMyBassCannon24 votesThe scaling is just shot to hell between wins and losses, and then the grading doesn't even tell you how you managed an A+ or a C or whatever you got out of that game. Mastery is a cool concept, but poorly executed.
Adrian Umbra28 votesI think that they could improve the transparency of the grade via a little "foldout" menu that shows a small plus or minus sign next to things you did well in and things you did badly in (if your CS is higher than average, plus sign for example) as well as showing your overall kill participation, which would add a lot of transparency and clarity. But my main issue is just how screwed over I feel getting an S- or an A on a loss and looking at 200 points while I get a B on a win and get 1200. I didn't do well on that game, I don't feel like I earned those points, I just happened to have good teammates, why am I being rewarded? I did well on that game, I was the reason the game lasted as long as it did, but my teammates failed hard, why am I being punished?
Aych Pii1 votesUnfortunately, they don't want to do this due to the danger of players somewhat reverse engineering the grading system and beginning to focus only on the aspects of the game that affected their grade the most.
Adrian Umbra1 votesI personally think that the risk of players reverse engineering the system and trying to game it is less than players guessing how to reverse engineer the system and trying to game it anyway and that more players would just appreciate HOW they got their grade, what they did well in, and how they could improve. I have faith that over 90% of players will continue to play the same as before or improve based on the feedback.
EnvyDragon5 votesFantastic idea. I'm the world's worst ADC and I'd love to see what numbers I can improve on at the end of a game, rather than getting carried as Graves and having him end up one of my highest-mastery champions because I happened to get good teammates.
abi99102 votesYA I HAD TO WORRY ENOUGH ABOUT GRADES IN SCHOOL, WHY THE FUCK IS LEAGUE IMPLEMENTING THIS!?!?!?! THIS IS NOT SCHOOL >.< with that out of the way the fold out menu idea sounds good, i got an A- when I went 15/8/10 Ashe. I dont know what riot wants. Its like my 5th grade math teacher... fuck the system.
TheRainInSpain5 votesThe system is flawed all together. League is, by definition and Riot's posts, comments, and statements, a competitive game. League is defined as competitive 5v5 on Summoner's Rift; the other maps and gamemodes can go **** themselves. The main goal of the game is to win. Personal skill, adaptive and innovative tactics, and sportsmanship are considered useless unless you win.
I could go full AP glasscannon Lee Sin (he does actually scales off AP somehow) and get 0-20-0, but as long as my team carries me and we win, I get a massive boost to Champion Mastery.
On the same note, if I use Kennen as a tank, rather than a Mage OR Marksman, and that is a pivotal part of my team's strategy, winning our team fights, I get very little Champion Mastery. No AD, no AP, is bad, even though it worked and won us the game (Lost lane against full tank Gnar, won game as I AOE stunned their team).
Adrian Umbra1 votesDo you actually lose points based on how much/little AP/AD you have? I was under the impression that it was based on Deaths, overall kill participation, and CS (averages for the champion), which are all stats where you should have at least done modestly well in, even as a tank. If AD/AP were all that mattered, magic pen bruisers and tanks would get absolutely shafted, which IMO means that Riot didn't implement those into balance, as they're usually not complete idiots. If I were to guess from the info I have, you likely didn't get as many points (you should have still gotten over 1000 due to having won) because you lost lane and ended up with lower kills/CS and higher deaths, but since you turned it around and won the game, you get your wonderful payout, if not a great grade (once again due to your lower kills/CS and higher deaths, not your build).
As a side note, do you mind linking the game where you played as tank Kennen? I'd love to see your build and the overall teams, just for my own learning purposes.
Also, Lee's shield scales off AP. The best Lee build I could think of going AP would be a tanky AP/CDR build to shield for dayyyyyyyyz on your allies and hopefully proc Lichbane every once in a while. I don't get why you'd do that, though. There's off-meta and then there's just wasteful...
TheRainInSpain1 votesI'm not sure if it mattered how much AD/AP, but I know that as a Mage/Marksman, the only AD I had was my base stats, runes, and masteries. I was originally trying to do an ADC build with Kennen (top), before getting shafted in lane and getting ganked multiple times. Full tank (it's been like 2 months, but I didn't even attempt getting MPen or APen items; just straight tank) with like Thornmail, Sunfire, Randuin, Banshee, Visage, and Tabbi. I had reasoned that since I was a yordle champion, and the enemy jungler singled me out several times despite being pushed to my tower (over, the much more dangerous mid who was getting the same fate), that going full tank to deal with the full tank Gnar would be more beneficial to the team overall than an Anti-ADC build, which is what I normally run for my Kennen builds. So for a Mage/Marksman, I had very little actual kills (discounting KS's) and a gigantic number of assists. People would probably target me like they go after every other yordle champion, so massive tank and AOE charging CC would probably allow my team to win the game. We did, by acing them late game in our base. Like all Bronze to Platinums, they focused the tank, who proceeded to five man ult them and for the rest of my team to jump into the fray.
My concern is playing a champion to a role they're not officially supposed to be in. For example, Blitzcrank is a Fighter/Tank. So using him as a Support (as 99.99% of Blitzcrank games go) may push your Fighter and Tank mastery up, while not touching your Support mastery. Or using an actual support as a fighter or marksman (during the Nemesis mode, my team ran into an ADC Soraka who proceeded to crush us mercilessly).
Adrian Umbra1 votesI think you're misinterpreting how the system works. Having high kill participation, low deaths, and good CS will likely guarantee you a good grade. On top of that, Riot should have a system in place for detecting the support (especially "normal" support picks like Blitz, Thresh, or Morg), and will grade them more on their kill participation and assist scores versus their CS, giving supports a way to get high ranks as well. If you take a "support" into an ADC role, you're likely to have higher kills and lower deaths than normal on top of an excellent CS score for average, meaning you're likely to get a high mastery score (again). Mastery scores, from what I have heard, are based around CHAMPION averages, rather than role ones.
LeeDark1 votesIf winning isn't the PRIMARY factor in determining your score, you can bet that people will just abandon their teams, farm cs, get kills on whoever comes to their lane, and ignore everything else, because high cs and a good KDA will get you enough points compared to winning with a poor KDA.
Adrian Umbra1 votesI'm getting really tired of hearing this, especially from the players that know better. Are people REALLY going to throw their games like that over an emote? Are those extra mastery points worth throwing away the game? I'm pretty sure most people get most of their fun from winning the game and playing well, not just from a letter grade and score at the top of their screen at the end. However, the letter grade being high while the score gained being low DOES subtract a lot of the satisfaction from a close loss and makes it hurt more when you have to struggle against teammates only to hit the brick wall of failure from them being too heavy. The argument could be made that I could feel shafted enough by this that I'd purposely throw a game when behind rather than trying to struggle out a win purely because there's so much less gain from a close loss.
And I don't think you read my post in the first place. I DID suggest winning still be the primary factor, just not the enormous one that it already is. 2-4 times rather than 6-7 should be good enough.
LeeDark1 votesMost people won't. Some will. That's kind of like asking "Really? Who the hell is going to bother with this inane achievement in any game's name here when it's so grindy and worthless?" There will be someone who will do it. And they'll want to figure out the best way to go about getting it quickly. Is it better and faster for them to lose games and focus more on CS and killing their lane opponent? They can reasonably assume that if they play selfishly, they will do well in most games, win or lose. They can also reasonably assume that if they sacrifice their own points to help the team win and get more points overall, they could still easily lose. In fact, it'd be a toss-up, basically. The current system ensures that playing for the team and winning and losing evenly will still, in the long run, average higher than playing selfishly.
GForce9x2 votes[{quoted}](name=Adrian Umbra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LieRzfKI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-05-15T18:28:20.307+0000)
Losing when you're doing well already feels bad enough, this feels like adding insult to injury, taking that loss and making your grade mean so little that it doesn't really matter how well you did.
So pretty much it's the frustration we get when playing ranked, even when we're not playing ranked.
I had the same happen to me in my first two games on this mastery system. Played my first game as support Alistar and did great. Got rank S but our mid and top lost so horribly we lost the game. I got maybe a couple hundred points. Later I had one of my first games as Sejuani. I thought I did decent going 7/4/11. My team ended up slaughtering them for the win. For whatever reason I ended up with a C grade, but since we got the win I got around 1400 points.
I too would like to see a bit less of a discrepancy between points awarded for win/loss and more of a breakdown of how you earn your grade.
bonfire1026 votesThe mastery system does kind of need to be disproportionate in how it weighs win vs loss, because otherwise people might just start playing with thoughts of their kda in mind rather than winning the game, which Riot doesn't want to happen.
Like if your team has a small disadvantage, you can either play so safe that you're a detriment to your team but you have a decent kda, or you can try to come back and win but be more likely to die more. If individual prowess was weighted more than win/loss, more people would be inclined to pick the first option and just abandon hope of winning the game in favor of personal gain.
Korillo2 votesThe mastery system does kind of need to be disproportionate in how it weighs win vs loss, because otherwise people might just start playing with thoughts of their kda in mind rather than winning the game, which Riot doesn't want to happen.
Like if your team has a small disadvantage, you can either play so safe that you're a detriment to your team but you have a decent kda, or you can try to come back and win but be more likely to die more. If individual prowess was weighted more than win/loss, more people would be inclined to pick the first option and just abandon hope of winning the game in favor of personal gain.
What personal gain is there though? You don't really gain anything from the champion mastery...
bonfire106 votesTell that to the people who would do it, because people would do it.
Riot even said that's why they wanted there to be no reward for it because people would insentivise champion mastery points over winning the actual game, but even without a tangible reward, there would still be people just focusing on getting a high champion mastery score.
trytrial1 votesWhile i agree there is such ppl, should that affect the system that much? People naturally loves to win and you still got other benefits from winning(first win, bonus ip, or even just bragging rights), so i don't believe a great deal of ppl will behave differently simply because of champion points. Then from a game design prespective, should preventing maybe 5% ppl from caring kda weigh more than making other 95% feel they have a fair and understandable cm system?
Like the post of Adrian Umbra, i still believe winning should count (and reasonably heavily,like 2-3 times) in cm point calcaluation, but not 6-7 times more and making a 30 min C+ win earning much more than an epic 50 min S loss.This should measure how well we play a champion, not how often we got carried.
Leonerdo3 votesI think it might have been a mistake to give any points at all for the grade you get. It would have been much clearer, and much less prone to letting people down, if Riot just said: "You get lots champion mastery points for winning, because that is the main goal, which everything else stems from. In addition we will grade your individual performance based on the little things so you can see where you can improve. But a higher grade will not give you more points." That way you could use the grade as a tool for individual growth, and the champion mastery points would be a separate system for rewarding your devotion to your favorite champs. The problem right now is that they are tied together, and thus neither one is clear.
Drunk Rummate11 votesIf you went 19-2 and lost then it says something about your playstyle. Maybe you're running away in teamfights to save your own skin instead of putting everything on the table to win, maybe you're opportunistic and last hitting kills, or chasing kills too deep instead of taking objectives.
To go 19-2 and lose means that those kills you were getting weren't benefiting your team as much as they should have been. So there's an issue with that.
Dr Poro10 votesIf you went 19-2 and lost then it says something about your playstyle.
Not at all... If your average kda would be 9-2 but you lose 75% of the time, then that would say something about your playstyle... However... From one game you cannot concude anything like this. His team could've been complete morons in this game and feed 0-21. This is especially the case if he went premade with a low silver/bronze (most of my friends are silver/brozne so I know what it's like). In those games, getting 10/5/10 is sometimes not enough. Your botlane can feed 20 kills before 10 minutes in some matches while you're 10/0 in toplane.
These kind of games don't happen often, but they happen. That's why you can't conclude ANYTHING about "your playstyle" after the scores of one game. What you say holds truth if this happened frequently, though.
TMIT2 votesIt would be almost impossible to KDA 9-2 and still lose 75% of the time unless you just got huge KDA then AFK'd at the end. If you try at all you'll wind up either winning with the gold lead or dying more :D. This is especially true with a low death rate which has heavy correlation with win %.
Usually losses with big KDA lead indicate a situation where 1) someone disconnected or 2) team with advantage didn't capitalize on kills by taking objectives. Once you get into the very late game, even if one side is down 3-4k gold compared to the other if everyone is near level 18 and the winning side eats one bad engage their whole team is down for 60+ seconds while the "losing" side is 4 up...that's enough time to get inhib'd + baron'd, multi-inhib'd, or even just lose outright as long as they have a tier 2 turret down. Essentially, if you go 19-1 but the game gets dragged out, that 2nd death might not give you another chance.
It's pretty hard, even as a selfish player, to have a 4:1 kills/death stat ratio and still lose over half your games. It can happen, but it's going to be rare because even a passing semblance of showing up in a team fight coupled with how useless that's probably made someone on the other team is usually enough to equate to a net positive. Usually.
Clint Orris2 votesNo, their team comp was just 100x better. We were capitalizing on their mistakes and coordination problems. But we fucked up once and they used that to win. Suck tbh.
LeeDark1 votesSo how did you only die twice?
Clint Orris1 votesHaving a bomb ass support combined with my positioning. Saved me multiple times.
LeeDark1 votesAnd then what? You ran away while the support died? How did this lead to lost fights and the opponents' victory?
Clint Orris1 votesI love that you are psychic :). Because my support didn't only die 2 times as well right? And the second death was when we both died together.
LeeDark1 votesI'm not psychic. I'm asking. You didn't win the game, so you shouldn't get a ton of mastery. You chalk it up to just team comp, saying they had the better team, as though all your lanes did well, but you still lost. How did they prevent you from pushing your advantage? How did they win those "two" teamfights and push to victory with it?
Clint Orris1 votesWe won lanes because we were better than then individuall, we played smart, got ganks, etc. but when it came to teamfights, their team was just statistically better. I mean faker lost it at the MSI but i guess I'm that's means that he's a shitty LeBlanc player, right?
LeeDark1 votesWTF does "statistically better" mean? Were you playing all off-meta builds and not teamfighting against a heavy tank team running a solid protect the Kog'maw comp? How did all lanes win but you failed to push that into a victory? How did a total of two possible teamfight wins lead to their victory? For them to lose for most of the game and win off that, it would have to mean that the game went longer than 40 minutes, since they'd have a lot of pushing to do during your dead time.
Plain and simple, winning matters more than anything else in the game, since winning is the goal. If you didn't win, you didn't deserve to win, and that translates directly into not deserving much IP or Mastery points.
r11na1 votesDunno why you are trying so hard to be an internet Sherlock.
Sometimes you get allies who throw hard and you can't carry them no matter what.
Martyrofsand7 votesEh I've given up on caring about the mastery. I went 2/0/20 as Thresh in a 4v5 that say my ADC dc and we won...I got an A. Everyone in the game agreed that was BS...kinda like the whole mastery rating.
Ironhand5 votesI got a PENTA on 
and I only got 287 points since we lost due to no tanks.... I got an A+ too.... I dont freaking get it
Wickedfates3 voteseh, not sure how it matters, maybe you could clarify for me why it does to u? did u feel terrible a lil while ago before they had mastery? u know if u keep playing that champ u will eventually achieve max rank... so u will be a master... so no worries, u will get there...
i like to have fun playing this game... and i do that by... having fun=^D
simple to say but difficult in practice.... look at what u do when you play... when u enjoy yourself why is that.. is it the position you play, the banter in game... or was it nothing more than the wins and losses.... i would bet ( and i dont bet) that you had the most fun when you did what you enjoyed... whether that was a "mid" champ as support, or playing with real life friends... or maybe it was that bot game everyone thought was lost, but u pulled out with a PENTA KILL!
go have fun.... like life.... its a game, and one day it will end
Chromatic Eagle1 votesok?
Nunya Bezwacks3 voteslike how all you people ever do is talk shit saying "if you don't carry to the win your bad" and when a system calls you on your bullshit people start getting mad about it. You don't just get to change the rules now that its being used against you.
1999 01 173 votesthere's no point to the mastery system. you might as well forget it even exists
Big Bang Bob2 votesYou think that's bad?
I've played 5 games with 
, doing awesome in most of them, and I'm still a tracker (level 1) because I've lost most of them.
Occams Raiser2 votesI guess you weren't doing as awesome as you thought.
Big Bang Bob2 votes"I can't carry this team"
Risurin1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Bang Bob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LieRzfKI,comment-id=001f00000000,timestamp=2015-05-16T15:05:01.781+0000)
"I can't carry this team"
- Vvvortic
"i deserve challenjour, gg"
Skouriasmenos2 votesRiot cannot think anything past win/lose ... they just cannot be bothered to balance anything more complicated than that and this kind of truth is as simple as it gets ...
/thread
Undead Pho3nix1 votesRiot cannot think anything past win/lose ... they just cannot be bothered to balance anything more complicated than that and this kind of truth is as simple as it gets ...
/thread
No. Why the hell would riot implement a system that rewards you for solo play. It's a team game. Stop bitching that your "solo scores" should give points and help you're f*ckin team already.
Skouriasmenos2 votes[{quoted}](name=Undead Pho3nix,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LieRzfKI,comment-id=00280000,timestamp=2015-05-16T12:01:54.266+0000)
No. Why the hell would riot implement a system that rewards you for solo play. It's a team game. Stop bitching that your "solo scores" should give points and help you're f*ckin team already.
First of all calm down, dude. :)
Second of all, a PERSONAL champion MASTERY, by definition should be measuring YOUR performance, not your team's.
If Riot cannot create such a PERSONAL system and just outputs things that still only rewards victories and disregards what they are supposed to measure, then we have every right to point that out ... ;)
P.s. I do not give a dime about the mastery system. I know what I can play and what I cannot ... I could spam Zed games though and eventually get 5th rank MASTERY on Zed, but we would all know that it would mean nothing because I'd still be a horrible Zed ... now do you understand why we complain .?.
Silents4292 votesWho really cares? Does it really matter what title you get that will go up each game regardless of how it went?
Unpaladin1 votesI just went 22-0 as and got a A+. Nothing skillful here, as the enemy just goofed around and ran right at me. I exerted pressure and focused towers down at opportune moments when no-one else would. The point is, I got an A+ for that.
The Grading system seems to be massively CS-driven, which is outrageous. This needs to be fixxored, unless I'm just not understanding it right.
The whole "you absolutely must win to get good XP" thing is definitely an issue with the system. It makes it a chore to play characters continuously when you end up losing some of the matches you play. It can feel like you did all that effort for nothing basically. Even if we just get a static XP amount for meeting certain criteria, that would be excellent.
The Ecdysiast1 votesClearly LoL doesn't care about performance, only w/l. Why do you think the ranked system works how it does?
Best Darius KR1 votes+1
Klodrik1 votesKnow the feel bro, got S still lost
http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2521479857/202753705?tab=overview