This is a huge issue with the sustain/survivability of ADCs right now. If an ADC(with 20% LS) autos a minion with 20 hp and deals 500 damage, he should NOT heal for 100 HP only 4. This is why ADCs can get wrecked in a fight, auto 2 minions and be at 70% hp. This has been overlooked for too long
C9 Squeeky 52 votesor make it champion/epic monster only
Teridax6817 votesI'd support this. There would probably be more balance work to be done farther down the line, but I think this could solve one of the major issues with lifesteal as a source of runaway healing. Whereas most healing is typically kept under tight control, requiring either some kind of resource and/or a significant amount of time, life steal is not only the largest source of item-based sustain in the game (not to mention top-tier sustain in general), but also among the least gated. Most powerful effects are restricted from interacting with non-champions because a player could otherwise passively accumulate too much power without any real risk, but life steal is notorious for letting marksmen recover all of the health they lost in a fight just by hitting some minions. It's also why Runaan's can cause huge spikes in self-healing just because a marksman was fighting near the enemy minion wave. If healing is to be able to function without having to constantly get cut in half by Grievous Wounds, it needs to be properly gated, and in the case of life steal this should likely mean making it work against enemy champions only.
AmenPerson22 votesC'mon man, Aatrox already has it rough.
Stranger Teams3 votesor make it champion/epic monster only
aaaand RIP tryndamere, farewell bud', the champ was really broken anyway so xd ^-^
Steelflame4 votesTryn is less effected than many other lifesteal champs as he has innate sustain on Q. The people most radically effected are ADCS, LS brawlers top (Fiora, Olaf... Nasus... Infact Nasus is dead if he can't lifesteal off of minions).
Spacesuit Spiff30 votesImagine how mad adc mains would get if lifesteal worked like it did in Bloodborne, with the time-limit.
Schenix6 votesThat would be an amazing mechanic to put in from my view. Incentivize aggression with that increased reward, but make lifesteal outside of it less effective but still sustainable.
AmazoX22 votes[{quoted}](name=Spacesuit Spiff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed9VVULT,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-03-14T06:23:13.461+0000)
Imagine how mad adc mains would get if lifesteal worked like it did in Bloodborne, with the time-limit.
The ADC role becoming more skill oriented? HAHAHA.
Automated Riven21 voteswe are really complaining about lifesteal in the only meta we have ever had where adc's almost never buy it?
Child of the Pit11 votesWhy buy it if Runes give you more than enough of it?
Automated Riven3 votesIf people are only using runes they aren't healing for half their health with two autos. They are healing maybe 100hp late per auto.
DracosKasu4 votesFleet footwork is more then enough since it scale with AD. Since crit also increase the healing and all adc build into infinity and zeal no wonder they heal that fast. Personnally I dont understand why they keep buffing their rune when each and every rune in the precision tree are causing problem since the rune rework. Let not forget triumph into the mix for max healing effet.
Papa Andrei17 votesI say make Lifesteal champion mechanic specific only tbh
Spoofghoul17 votesIt should only scale with AD and not be modified by crits
Its dumb when adc's heal more then mundo
F3EDfromDesIr310 votesCute how you all talk about such things as if ADCs are the only Champs in the Game who buy Lifesteal
Hibeki4 votesAll other champions who buy it with the exception of someone like Olaf dont abuse it to such an extent.
Supreme Senpai695 votes^ Olaf isn't ranged. Kiting is skill expression, less-so when you burst someone down to 1 HP and run at them but they don't let you near them. And by the time you can flash into range they're full HP again and kill you. Ranged lifesteal is super frustrating.
5050BS9 votesLifeSteal needs to be capped like Spellvamp at 33%
Skorch7 votesLifeSteal needs to be capped like Spellvamp at 33%
That WOULD matter if most ADCs got anywhere near that. Even with Bloodthirster+another lifesteal item+ runes that is only barely over. And most ADCs dont even get that many.
Rythmatic2 votesThat WOULD matter if most ADCs got anywhere near that. Even with Bloodthirster+another lifesteal item+ runes that is only barely over. And most ADCs dont even get that many.
Only a dead ADC would try anything close to that. They would have to give up armor pen or a crit item to try for that.
Takazaki6 votes
edit: " i cant reach the AD to auto attack hrrrrrrr"
Troll for Trump26 votesBramble relies on the opponent's inaptitude. In a teamfight, if they're smart, they won't attack you.
The only options to PROACTIVELY apply grevious wounds are 
. Does it hinder the healing? Yes. Is it enough to offset all the cc, shields, support heals, in combination with the lifesteal? No. Does it stop them from healing back up to full randomly in a wave? No.
OP isn't saying that lifesteal has no counterplay, he's just pointing out that it's problematic.
C9 Squeeky 3 votesI'm not going to stop attacking a champion just because my healing is reduced lol
Rythmatic4 votes
edit: " i cant reach the AD to auto attack hrrrrrrr"
You guys are being really biased against this guy. He has a valid point and riot knows this as well. You are literally trying to change something that has been in the game since the beta? You have tools and you actually have to purchase them if you want them to work! You just cant build glass cannon every single game!
Clint Orris2 votesYou guys are being really biased against this guy. He has a valid point and riot knows this as well. You are literally trying to change something that has been in the game since the beta? You have tools and you actually have to purchase them if you want them to work! You just cant build glass cannon every single game!
I'm mostly refereeing to out-of-combat sustain that i feel play a huge factor to the outcome of teamfights that 1. People are not aware of and 2. Gives an unfair advantage
If you want to disengage from a fight to heal up, tha'ts fine. But it should take a fair bit of time.
Rythmatic3 votes[{quoted}](name=Clint Orris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed9VVULT,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-14T16:32:05.168+0000)
I'm mostly refereeing to out-of-combat sustain that i feel play a huge factor to the outcome of teamfights that 1. People are not aware of and 2. Gives an unfair advantage
If you want to disengage from a fight to heal up, tha'ts fine. But it should take a fair bit of time.
So you flat out refuse to engage the adc and kill him, watch him get away and heal up, refuse to buy any of your tools that riot literally provides for you, then you log onto the boards and complain about something thats been exactly the same since League of legends was released on beta? Whats your end game goal here? Please explain!
Altonius Amakiir5 votesIf this happens in team-fights too, then changing this might give a larger window late game to kill a fed adc. Potentially putting them in a more balanceable state. It's at least worth considering. Even if it only happens on minions now (which doesn't sound like the case), it still gives a meaningful window to kill them and clean up a fight before they can heal back to full.
AlienPrimate4 votesNasus's passive would need a change if this happened. It would totally ruin his entire kit with him being incapable of laning if this happened.
NewGuy1014 votesWell technically, the damage dealt is still 500 in your example. They attacked something that did 500 damage, and they got 100 hp from the damage that they dealt. The attacked object might only have 20 hp, but it still took 500 damage which reduced its health to 0. If Taco Bell made 500 burritos and gave them to 1 guy who could only eat 20 and ended up giving/throwing them away, you wouldn't say Taco Bell made only 20 Burritos. This is probably how it works in game.
Sex With Annie3 voteslove how you advertise it as an adc when literally anyone in the game who builds lifesteal can do the same (see: aatrox, yasuo, tryndamere)
Clint Orris5 votes[{quoted}](name=Lewd Ripe Trap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ed9VVULT,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-03-14T13:24:16.405+0000)
love how you advertise it as an adc when literally anyone in the game who builds lifesteal can do the same (see: aatrox, yasuo, tryndamere)
We all now that silly, but aatrox, Yasuo, and tryndamere are not constatly 550+ units away while getting healed, shielded and buffed by the support.
Modl Ryden l3 votesThere's so much hate and wanting to nerf marksmen. Can we just suggest buffs to other classes instead? Like JEsus Christ it's been like 3 months and the ADC hate train won't stop.
Rythmatic4 votesThere's so much hate and wanting to nerf marksmen. Can we just suggest buffs to other classes instead? Like JEsus Christ it's been like 3 months and the ADC hate train won't stop.
Its like they dont understand both teams have a ADC?
MohawkBird4 votes[deleted]
Rythmatic2 votesIt's not people arguing that games aren't fair. Yes, both teams have ADCs, that's obvious. The problem arises in that ADCs are too strong right now and overshadow the strength of the other roles.
So whats your argument? The games are fair. You want them to be unfair? You want riot to give you the ability to teleport bot at any given moment to stop the ADC from getting any cs? You want a button to take 100 cs away from the ADC at your convenience? Whats your endgame goal here?
AmazoX4 votesSo whats your argument? The games are fair. You want them to be unfair? You want riot to give you the ability to teleport bot at any given moment to stop the ADC from getting any cs? You want a button to take 100 cs away from the ADC at your convenience? Whats your endgame goal here?
#You Sir/Ma'am are triggered as hell, Calm your horse/Hakuna your tata's.
ChaddyFantome3 votesThere's so much hate and wanting to nerf marksmen. Can we just suggest buffs to other classes instead? Like JEsus Christ it's been like 3 months and the ADC hate train won't stop.
Stop.
We dont need other classes to be brought to marksmens absurd level. And even then, it wouldnt solve the problems with the class.
YerroFever2 votesOne thing I don't understand is that Riot has made it clear over and over that they dislike healing... but they leave life steal to heal based on pre-mitigated damage rather than post mitigated damage dealt...
This confuses me.
Thegreatxiu3 votesLife steal is based on post-mitigated damage. It isn't based on health of target.
YerroFever1 votesLife steal is based on post-mitigated damage. It isn't based on health of target.
So the OP is wrong on life steal calculations?
This is a huge issue with the sustain/survivability of ADCs right now. If an ADC(with 20% LS) autos a minion with 20 hp and deals 500 damage, he should NOT heal for 100 HP only 4. This is why ADCs can get wrecked in a fight, auto 2 minions and be at 70% hp. This has been overlooked for too long
If I'm interpreting what the OP is saying it means that
500 Damage auto attack with 20% lifesteal 20 HP minion with hypothetical 0 armor so he's just doing true damage for math sake 20 Damage dealt 100 Health healed from life steal
Are you saying that it is
500 Damage auto attack with 20% lifesteal 20 HP minion say enough armor to mitigate 5% physical damage based on current amounts of lethality/pen on the ADC. 20 Damage dealt 95 Health healed from life steal
If so, it's still a problem. How do you steal 95 health based on doing 20 damage?
Thegreatxiu3 votesA minion not having full health isn't mitigated damage. Damage mitigated is the damage after armor/mr. If something doesn't have enough health to live through something it doesn't mitigate the damage down to how much health it has.
YerroFever1 votesA minion not having full health isn't mitigated damage. Damage mitigated is the damage after armor/mr. If something doesn't have enough health to live through something it doesn't mitigate the damage down to how much health it has.
That's inherently a problem. Why is overkill on minions rewarded as full heals rather than being based on how much damage is dealt down to 0? Why does -420 health of a minion benefit the ADC?
I'm over the technical word play you're dragging out. You're hung up on mitigated vs unmitigated while I'm talking about the concept of healing more than what the damage dealt to a minion is.
Do you understand that the problem I have with the life steal mechanic is that they punish supports for being able to heal and sustain ADC's indefinitely but they have no problems with items healing and sustaining ADC's indefinitely?
Thegreatxiu3 votesIf I drop a nuke on a crippled child, just because the child is crippled does that mean I do less damage?
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesBecause the healing they dislike is uninteractive healing, not interactive healing.
Uninteractive healing is healing gained passively, without possible interaction from the opponent. Things like Soraka's W can be very much like this, if Riot hadn't forced interaction into her kit (Adding a health cost to her W, which requires her to land her Q on an opponent to be able to continue healing).
Interactive healing is healing that is not uninteractive. Autoing a minion is not passive, and enables the opponent to interact with you in some way. Therefore, lifesteal is not uninteractive (Albeit not very skill-intensive), and is therefore acceptable so long as it is kept in reasonable numbers.
Riot has also, in the past, show willingness to make exceptions to previous rules when following that rule would create more issues than it would solve. Lifesteal is an essential stat for DPS champions in general, but especially so for marksmen, since they simply would not survive long enough to kill a tank without it.
Third thing: Life steal is still post-mitigated damage. Not pre-mitigated. Post-mitigation refers to actual penetrating damage - damage after armor, MR, damage reduction, invulnerability, or damage blocking. You heal less on an auto against someone with 400 armor than someone with 100 armor. You heal nothing against an invulnerable/unkillable target. Just because you heal off of excess damage dealt as well as normal damage does not mean it's pre-mitigation healing.
