@Morello. So now that worlds is over I'm going to make this thread.

hashinshin··418 votes·19,047 views

Just a bunch of random quotes I remember.

**Phreak: Aatrox is in a good position right now. ** 0% pick at worlds.

**Ghostcrawler: Jax is a good example of a melee that works. ** 0% pick rate at worlds for the first time... ever. Jokingly highlighted in the last game.

**Patch notes: See you in LCS Shen ** 0% pick rate at worlds.

**Morello: I think Dr. Mundo is a problematic champion. ** 0% win rate at worlds in what, 8 games? I guess a late game tanky champion (when tanks become useless) who has a single 40% slow as his only CC on a slim skill shot that loses every single lane isn't good for actually winning games, huh?

**Ghostcrawler: We want to fix the Shyvana vs. Mundo slap fight. ** Shyvana 0% pick rate at worlds. Mundo 0% win rate. Problem solved?

**Entire Riot: We want Melee to have counterplay. ** Irelia and Maokai have 0% counterplay. Only melee champions picked consistently at top (and Irelia was dropped like a rock once it became apparent she was dead weight in fast matches as she lost lane to ranged opponents and had to overextend to fight.)

**Entire Riot: Ryze is not overbearing. ** Ryze is 100% overbearing.

**Entire Riot: We like where ADCs are at right now. ** ADCs are 100% dominant right now.

313 Comments

BlazingSalvo105 votes

How about the Vlad, Gragas, Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Olaf, Renekton, Swain, Zac, Yorick pick rates for toplane? All once competitive picks.

How about the Evelynn, Elise, Wukong, Gragas, Nocturne, Volibear, Amumu pick rates for jungle? All once competitive picks. Saintvicious played Hecarim in LCS... once? Before Hecarim was nerfed to Oblivion.

How about every single ranged mage other than Syndra, Orianna, or Ziggs for midlane? Where's the Anivia, the Brand, the Malz, the Viktor? Why are these champions never allowed to be competitive staples?

It's all about the marksman, yet Sivir, Quinn, and friends are nowhere to be found. Urgot has had a rework pending for years. Graves is still borderline playable/unplayable. Ezreal is rarely seen, and only in niche poke-based comps. Varus saw a game (and lost) and his CC-archer sister Ashe is also nowhere to be seen, despite being HUGE picks at the end of season 2, beginning of season 3.

When was the last time you saw Taric, a former tier 1 support?

This game has 121 champions, yet we see the same 20 every game.

48983507DEL117 votes

How about the Vlad, Gragas, Kennen, Malphite, Nasus, Olaf, Renekton, Swain, Zac, Yorick pick rates for toplane? All once competitive picks.

How about the Evelynn, Elise, Wukong, Gragas, Nocturne, Volibear, Amumu pick rates for jungle? All once competitive picks. Saintvicious played Hecarim in LCS... once? Before Hecarim was nerfed to Oblivion.

How about every single ranged mage other than Syndra, Orianna, or Ziggs for midlane? Where's the Anivia, the Brand, the Malz, the Viktor? Why are these champions never allowed to be competitive staples?

It's all about the marksman, yet Sivir, Quinn, and friends are nowhere to be found. Urgot has had a rework pending for years. Graves is still borderline playable/unplayable. Ezreal is rarely seen, and only in niche poke-based comps. Varus saw a game (and lost) and his CC-archer sister Ashe is also nowhere to be seen, despite being HUGE picks at the end of season 2, beginning of season 3.

When was the last time you saw Taric, a former tier 1 support?

This game has 121 champions, yet we see the same 20 every game.

Okay, you have to understand the concept of the current meta. The reason that certain champs like Anivia and Brand aren't picked up in the midlane, despite being seriously powerful, is because they don't fit the meta, composition, or playstyle of the people who play in the LCS. Currently, the meta is dominated by high mobility or long range champions. Anivia and Brand are super stationary champions that don't have the range or spam abilities to compete with champs like Ziggs and Syndra. Champs like Lee Sin are picked up often in the jungle because they can easily snowball a team through the early game. Elise was picked up quite a lot until she got a nerf which I think was needed, but taken too far, because she has high early game damage and extreme pick off potential comparable to Thresh and Morgana. Currently the top lane meta is shifted to favor early game bullies that have extreme late game utility (Maokai and Lulu). Champs like Malphite and Nasus simply cannot survive the early game with the champs that dominate atm. Nasus was picked up a few times this year and won a majority of the time if I'm not mistaken simply because he has late game potential beyond compare (for doing something as simple as last hitting I fucking hate Nasus and will never respect the cane). ADCs need their repositioning tools, which is why Tristana and Lucian are so dominant. True, champs like Kog'Maw, Jinx, and Twitch (pretty much only picked up by cocky af Doublelift) are picked up at certain times too, but usually have the team build around peeling for them since they are super immobile. The biggest problem with Vayne is that she has the weakest early game out of every ADC. Ashe's and Varus' kits needs to be reworked, as their abilities do not support their playstyle; Ashe's passive requires her to not AA, while her Frostshot promotes it, and Varus' Piercing Arrow combined with the worst mobility on any ADC promotes long range poking, but his Blighted Quiver means he has to be constantly in the fight, auto attacking everyone as much as possible. Urgot is absolute garbage the way he is, but if he is buffed he will be overpowered. He should just be removed from the game or have his new playstyle not even come close to resembling his old one. Supports are put into the meta based on either the current meta of ADCs or the current determination of which is broken in terms of stats. Hypercarries are in atm, so Janna and Nami are in.

Pyro57 votes

The reason that certain champs like Anivia and Brand aren't picked up in the midlane, despite being seriously powerful, is because they don't fit the meta, composition, or playstyle of the people who play in the LCS.

Brand has not been picked in any LCS game, ever. This is not because "the meta doesn't fit him", this is because he's inherently unfit for competitive play, period. Long range mages outperform him in poking, toplane bruisers like Rumble and Ryze outperform him in DPS and durability. Also, he's naturally weak against assassins, any sort of mobility and team coordination (same reason why Sejuani isn't a competitve pick).

There is nothing that Brand can do that the other champions cannot.

Currently, the meta is dominated by high mobility or long range champions.

You live in an illusion where "currently" is anything past season one. Mobility has been the core power creep of LoL for about three years now, probably since release of Ahri and Fizz - and frankly, the emergence of weekly LCS is what solidified it and showed the world what competitive picks are.

Anivia and Brand are super stationary champions that don't have the range or spam abilities to compete with champs like Ziggs and Syndra.

News flash: Ziggs' temporary rise to popularity is already gone.

The biggest problem with Vayne is that she has the weakest early game out of every ADC.

No, that's just how her power curve is supposed to work. Vayne's problem is not the weak early game, it's that her lategame isn't that much stronger than Tristana's or Twitch's, who don't have to pay for it with such weak laning.

I could argue with your other points, but there were irrelevant to the discussion


BlazingSalvo's point stands: the competitive champion pool is embarassingly small. It's 3-4 dominant champions per role, the only thing that changes is what the holy trinity of a given lane is, since the cycle of buffs and nerfs removes a pick or two from time to time.

Due to inherent flaws and the cycle of nerfs half of LoL champs are unfit for competitive play at any given time. The cycle of buffs and nerfs gives an illusion that there are many viable options, when you sum picks from all patches, but that is simply not true.


The problem with LoL is the lack of champion diversity in design. All spell effects are too similar to each other. Swain is so rare because Ryze does pretty much the same (DPS, tankiness, root, heal on R) and doesn't require snowball and heavy AP to be relevant. Vayne was almost nonexistent at Worlds because you can have just as great lategame with Twitch or Tristana and there is nothing particular that Vayne does that those two cannot. Of course if T&T got nerfed to ground, Vayne would be situationally picked again, but that's the problem - champions are too similar, so you just compare them and get the currently strongest one.

Why would you pick [insert mage here] when you have other mages? What can he do that the others cannot? Some conditional CC, burst, DPS - is there anything that makes Brand mid THAT different from Vel'Koz? Lux from Xerath? Mages are too similar, and in result only the select few ones (Orianna, Syndra, Ahri) get picked.

This goes for every role. There are very few champions with abilities distinct enough to make a true difference, doing something no one else can. Good examples are Morgana as support, Thresh, Braum and Yasuo - but the last one was nerfed to ground due to overwhelming annoyance coming from his passive effects. Also, Yasuo was the only carry out of the bunch, with no real competition in the field of being impactful in an original manner.


If you want any further proof, look up the picks%bans at Worlds. Only 50% of champions were picked or banned over 78 games.

Here's a post with full statistics. 17 champions made 70% of picks and bans.

Kuroi869 votes

You live in an illusion where "currently" is anything past season one. Mobility has been the core power creep of LoL for about three years now, probably since release of Ahri and Fizz - and frankly, the emergence of weekly LCS is what solidified it and showed the world what competitive picks are.

Forgetting the tank meta? Not saying mobility hasn't always been popular, but there's simply too many people that underestimate the outplay potential of utility, it's why Thresh is so popular, but few people take into consideration the utility that many champs can bring to other positions.

AfroNinja681020 votes

This game has 121 champions, yet we see the same 20 every game.

This is my number 1 problem with this game. So many champions, but barely any are ever played.

arkhammer27 votes

I'd secretly love a rule that every subsequent match in a best of 5 couldn't use champions used in the previous match. Honestly, seeing the same pool of champs picked over and over gets boring.

Lord Malice11 votes

Great idea, stop secretly wanting it. Watching worlds live was hard because of the time difference but when i did watch some of it live i was bored to tears, "Oh look another thresh and another lee sin v Kha.zix, i wonder who will play him better this time...". I just clicked the vods the day after and watched the matches I wanted to often skipping to the start of the match then to the id then to the end, as i could assume that much of the gameplay was about the same.

Arch Mage Magnus37 votes

Spoken like a true gentlemen.

BonerGigantor18 votes

Spoken like a true gentlemen.

Long Dong Wukong7 votes

Spoken like a true gentlemen.

17inchcorkscrew6 votes

Spoken like a true gentlemen.

FluxBound31 votes

you guys have really fucked up names, are you sure you are gentle?

Dryditch23 votes

You left out the near- 100% Pick/Ban favorite, Lucian!

When the world champions make him an instant-ban, something is WRONG.

Pokeprof21 votes

You also gotta think that the champions that were picked throughout worlds all had very specific strategies to them, ones that either fit the teams playstyles or were known for their power and abilitiy with said champion. Hell, I don't think anyone saw Jayce coming originally and then he kinda exploded in the midlane. Same thing with Janna and Nami. And considering the team that won prefers champions that spike in power quickly, it means champions that take time and effort to actually GET anywhere (Jax, Mundo, Shyvanna) are pushed out for champions who get their power at 20 minutes.

Now is this a problem and it needs to be taken care of? YES. The fact that the game was so dominate by early champions that spiked quickly is not a good thing. And some of these champions (Lee Sin) Have been needing to be brought down several pegs for a while now. But considering that A, we've got Preseason coming to change things up and B, Riot ALWAYS takes what they see at worlds and tries to move things about, I fully expect to see change come next season.

hashinshin20 votes

You also gotta think that the champions that were picked throughout worlds all had very specific strategies to them, ones that either fit the teams playstyles or were known for their power and abilitiy with said champion. Hell, I don't think anyone saw Jayce coming originally and then he kinda exploded in the midlane. Same thing with Janna and Nami. And considering the team that won prefers champions that spike in power quickly, it means champions that take time and effort to actually GET anywhere (Jax, Mundo, Shyvanna) are pushed out for champions who get their power at 20 minutes.

Now is this a problem and it needs to be taken care of? YES. The fact that the game was so dominate by early champions that spiked quickly is not a good thing. And some of these champions (Lee Sin) Have been needing to be brought down several pegs for a while now. But considering that A, we've got Preseason coming to change things up and B, Riot ALWAYS takes what they see at worlds and tries to move things about, I fully expect to see change come next season.

Jax is terrible at all stages of the game. Shyvana is terrible late game, Mundo is terrible late game.

I don't understand your point. By late game tanks become useless due to the exponential growth of damage builds. They used to power spike mid game but now everyone just picks ranged champions and ganks the melee.

Arch Mage Magnus29 votes

Jax is terrible at all stages of the game. Shyvana is terrible late game, Mundo is terrible late game.

lol what?

Long Dong Wukong18 votes

Meh, standard Riot at this point. I don't even care anymore.

The end of this season is a boring shitpile of ranged-only circlejerk. We know it, they know it, so I don't really care if they admit it.

And as far as I can tell next season is even worse with like half of the Junglers getting kicked out of the Jungle because it's too hard. And they certainly can't lane as they are.

MakersF4 votes

Sejuani for sure won't be able to jungle either

Gøblín10 votes

Meh, standard Riot at this point. I don't even care anymore.

The end of this season is a boring shitpile of ranged-only circlejerk. We know it, they know it, so I don't really care if they admit it.

And as far as I can tell next season is even worse with like half of the Junglers getting kicked out of the Jungle because it's too hard. And they certainly can't lane as they are.

^^^^^^^^ Riot nerfs every jungle champ cause they make a 2v1 too hard to win when they gank(lol). Then basically has decided jungling is a bad position and we're back to supporty junglers. They just spent all this time balancing tank junglers (there are two tank junglers in the top winrates) and they're clearing it. They don't like a large pool of viable champs, it makes pro play too hard to commentate, they have to anticipate multiple champs being picked. They say they want variety in the jungle, but every time there's a jungle trio, instead of buffing other champs they just nerf those so another trio can rise to the occasion; the proof is in feral flare, they added it, made a TON of jungles viable and then not only nerfed it, but nerfed it into the ground. The lack of a scaling heal was dumb, they shoulda made the heal only apply vs minions/monsters on hit. Everyone knew that. And the added number of required stacks was counter-productive. Meh, that whole mess just makes me mad to think about. Now they're removing scaling sustain again, but from everyone. Good bye assassin junglers (who've now been "balanced" to only be viable in the current jungle).

EDIT: WOW that was a lot, adding my tl;dr. Tl;dr: Riot has no idea what they're doing with melee vs range balancing and the jungle balancing.

KzooCrasher14 votes

So lcs = viability? Worlds especially but the pro scene in general does not determine viability. If you don't like the esports scene that is one thing to complain about and if this is that then I don't have a problem with it. But if this is another qq post about how only a few champs are strong then your dead wrong. I'd say 100 champs are strong and viable to be played in this game which is great to me. Again people need to stop looking at the lcs and saying there is only a small champion pool for everyone else to play from...

MEMEME67010 votes

All of your points are more-or-less spot on, except this.

**Entire Riot: We like where ADCs are at right now. **ADCs are 100% dominant right now.

You're going to have to define dominant (given this context, of course) for this to make any sense (and thus, be approachable as a statement of fact).

As for most of your other stuff, Top lane has been getting more diverse through the season, Jungle has (albeit not a large amount), and is getting an overhaul with the preseason so hopefully that helps it out.

Mid lane is largely a by-product of the jungle, so with changes to the jungle coming we can hopefully see diversity here.

Sure, things aren't perfect. But they're a lot better than the past, and they appear to be continuing to improve, so what else do you want? You want Riot to be psychic and make 100% sure everything they say ever (in any context) comes true with no exceptions? Get real. Doing stuff like this is the exact reason Riot doesn't like posting on the forums.

Even when your criticisms are correct and warranted, there are MUCH better ways to go about it than this. Such as, posting them generally (e.g. "I don't like how melee top laners have no/little counterplay.") and then giving your thoughts on the problem, assuming you have any. (This is not meant to be arrogant, deep thoughts on the causes // solutions to a problem aren't and shouldn't be required to point it out.)

Raptamei9 votes

Just a bunch of random quotes I remember.

Riot: We know better than the players because we have data! The players buy your product, the players pay your bills, so the players tell you what to do, and we're sick of you only caring about e-sports and then creating shameful balance at the e-sports level anyway.

SecretAgentHulk45 votes

Riot: We know better than the players because we have data!

Duh. You think you know better than them? You might have philosophical disagreements, but you can't say both that Riot shouldn't make decisions based on data and then also say that Riot should make decisions based on "what players want". If someone is permaban, they fix it. If someone is broken due to meta, they fix it. They don't always do it fast, but it happens eventually.

The players buy your product,

FYI the product you buy is skins, not a game.

the players pay your bills,

Fair enough.

so the players tell you what to do,

No. Design by committee is the worst, especially when your committee is several million people. Again, they are also in a far better position than "the players" to know what is up, because they have data you don't.

and we're sick of you only caring about e-sports and then creating shameful balance at the e-sports level anyway.

Read patch notes sometime. They constantly are thinking about lower ELOs in their balance updates, and it's a delicate balance because changes for low ELO can break high ranks, and changes for high ranks make other champs unplayable in low ELO.

Raptamei6 votes

No. Design by committee is the worst, especially when your committee is several million people. Again, they are also in a far better position than "the players" to know what is up, because they have data you don't.

Fine, then the players will play HotS and Riot will go bankrupt.

SecretAgentHulk21 votes

Then they should go play HotS. I hate the money argument because it's like a Mafia threat: do what I want or lose your livelihood. I'd much rather see an argument based on love for the game and a desire to see it get better. If a few changes you disagree with are enough to make you leave, then go play something that makes you happier. Be free.

Sir Fuzzi5 votes

I think it's the lack of changes that people are complaining about. 100+ champions is a very, very charming thing, don't get me wrong; what people don't like is that the viable picks become marginalized while non-viable picks are so to the point that they start costing their team serious ground that the rest of them have to pick up to make back.

Not a deep ranked player or anything but that's my two cents. I'm of the camp that 'if it were truly imbalanced they'd fix it,' but there's no doubt that there's favour in picks, at least where non-viable champs are considered.

So having said all that, I think the expectations-- as angrily as they are submitted-- are toward actually putting their money where their mouths are here and making champs at least equally viable picks, if not equally significant (that's what bans are for, though!).

ProfDrDeath8 votes

Two things to consider with that:

A) Some of the champs considered unviable are intentionally put into that state. I wouldn't want to play a League where Poppy was the staple top lane pick, would you?

B) The competitive meta, especially if so much is on the line, is much more restricted due to players only being able to play so much champions on the highest level continously. On top of it, scrimming only against a limited pool of players with equal limitations on their champion pools tends to reinforce further which champions are seen as viable and which ones are seen as unviable. And too much of a different champion pool makes you also pretty vulnerable to targeted bans. If the enemy team knows that their enemy, for example, toplaner can't play the "meta" champions too well and instead has his one or two incredibly strong pet picks...which not ban those two away and force him on an uncomfortable champion, making him possibly tilt?

The world championship also showed another different thing - the evolution of a meta on a single, given patch. During NA playoffs, for example, Rumble wasn't even shown once. Became a staple pick the first day. Same with Kayle, Irelia. While other picks lost their significance - Nidalee, Lulu. Quarterfinals and beyond even had some curveballs thrown in, like Singed, Akali, Kassadin as top lane picks.

Sir Fuzzi2 votes

I think making exceptions like that, where a champion may not be strictly balanced to the meta's stringent standard, isn't necessarily a bad thing, although it makes it sort of weird to have the option when the game stresses balance so hard otherwise. When they're trying to make the tiniest tweaks for balance, it feels weird that they'd just backpedal on that and make champs who aren't meant to be balanced. And then why have them be allowed picks if they're not balanced? That's going to cause a lot of flak if they get picked. That's not cunning design, that's poor design; at the very least, while they don't have to be the grand meta, champions should never be 'not viable' for at least their standard role. That much, I think, isn't so much to ask... there will always be champions better suited to certain things by virtue of this being, you know, a video game. What there should not be are champions who just cannot be picked. That's poor balance, and again I think that's where complaints are coming from. If they're going to create a champ outside the meta's guidelines, they should at the very least have a point at which they flourish. The way it is now, it feels like some champs just won't see picks because they just don't have the resources that make them useful to a team. Then again, I play ARAM, whose meta is entirely different on its own...

As for the championships, did any of those curveballs manage to take home wins? I don't like to 'preach the meta' as it were, but curveballs-- while nice, and generally fun to watch and play-- don't typically lead to victory in a game with a meta so apparently hard-set as League's. Maybe that's just me, but I find League to have a very strict and unforgiving meta...

The game would not, say, reward itself for having a meta that more forgave builds like Mage Fortune or things like that, but it would benefit pretty greatly from having a more strictly defined standard to which all champions could be held.

As for people losing champs over bans, that's just poor on their part. I'm no ranked player and I'm no pro, but I certainly have more than one role and two champs under my belt. That's just healthy if I'm entering competitive play-- expecting that my one or two picks will never get A) picked, B) banned or C) hard-countered isn't being a good player or meeting expectations, it's holding a dangerously narrow scope on the way the competitive play does and should work.

As for lost or gained significance, Nid might be doing better if she weren't disabled! Hah.

ProfDrDeath9 votes

Poppy is a very old champion, and comes from a time when the design philosophies and core values weren't as developed as they are today. She is one of the hottest candidates for a full rework, now that Sion is out of the way.

As for the curveballs: Singed won one, lost one. The lost one was not primarily due to him, but due to a generally badly thought-out teamcomp (Singed + Fizz + Twitch = no waveclear and bad siege). Akali won one, against arguably the second-best team of the tournament. Kassadin won more than he lost, at least. He was picked as a counter to Ryze a lot, as he has the tools to deal with him during laning phase (reduced magic damage) and wants to farm up a lot, too.

The meta is more strict in competitive, mainly due to the always possible laneswap against you, leaving a lot of champions in an inferior position (for example, almost all pure melees without sustain are suffering in a lane swap; Darius Garen Jax Irelia Malphite Mordekaiser Nasus Olaf Riven Singed Trundle Udyr. Which is especially painful if they are dependant on their early game and/or their farm for the later stages of the game)

ProfDrDeath9 votes

Aatrox banned in 6 games.

Why was Mundo picked, then? Remember, those are the best teams in the whole world...

Shen was banned for how long, exactly? Also, the TP changes combined with the long-ass CD on Shen's ult makes everybody sort-of Shen. But, how much of his power budget went into that ult?

IE is too strong as a rush item, I give you that.

EDIT: Also, another thing concerning Ryze (that possibly pertains to other magic damage heavy toplaners, too): This world championship saw a great deal of physical damage assassins and pokers in the mid lane, in form of Talon Yasuo Zed Jayce . I think it is quite logical to have a magic damage toplaner to make up for that (Akali Lulu Kayle Kassadin Rumble Ryze ). Plus, a lot of them are melee, too.

TheRainInSpain9 votes

One of the biggest problems seen in high elo/Challenger/Worlds games is that their meta, is vastly different from our meta. High elo games revolve around early game power and domination. You don't see tanks because tanks are not tanky early game. Tanks in the early game are bruisers that do less damage, but have more CC. Assassins, Fighters, damage oriented Bruisers, burst Mages, and non-hypercarry Marksmen are preferred over late game hypercarries ... Why?

HIGH ELO GAMES RARELY REACH THE LATE GAME WHERE SUCH CHAMPIONS EXCEL.

Kingsgrave7 votes

Riot wants Melees only able to jungle apparently

Lunar Lightning7 votes

Im fine with adcs being strong they should be not to the point of trist and lucian but all the others are in a good spot, that being said yes i feel like quite a few champions have needed buffs for a long time and not recieved them yet, aatrox is a good example of that shyvana also kept getting random nerfs throughout the season with very little play and is in a a really bad spot now shes not a good jungler, and shes a mediocre top lane at this pointShyvana really needs love

kunkudunk6 votes

The fact of the matter is that there is more that must be done to increase champion diversity than simple buffs and nerfs. It has to go beyond simple number fixes. For any champ to be picked over another based on something other than shear numbers or reliability, they have to bring something specific that other champs don't bring or bring it with a twist. Vi is a good example of this and they actually talked about her a while back. They thought what can we give vi that would make you want to pick her. The answer in there post/blog was the garunteed 1.25 second knockup. You can't dodge her ult, you can't stop it, and you can't out run it (unless you have the best timing on your backs/teleports ever). While you can argue that this isn't fun for the enemy team or what not, it gives you a reason to want to pick her over say lee sin.

On the side of multiple champs bringing the same thing with a twist, we can compare sejuani and amumu. Both bring excellent aoe initiation for late game team fights. The difference? Amumu has way more damage but is less safe. Sej on the other hand has a greater distance she can initiate from and if she fails it then she can just turn around. You can argue that neither are picked in the pros and thus are a failed design in your mind but sej was very strong after her rework way back because the thing she brought to your team was actually very useful, constant aoe cc at a distance. There are actually a decent number of champs that have unique things they bring to a team but aren't picked in worlds. This is mostly because, at least from what I've seen, in the past riot perceived what was strong or useful about a popular or op champ and nerfed it. The issue was the thing they nerfed was also why that champ was brought along. When they nerfed sej, instead of nerfing her damage, they nerfed her cc, the whole reason you brought her to begin with, making her more similar to other champs. Could you imagine if instead of nerfing oriana's lane harass from autos they nerfed say, they radius on her ult by about 25 or 50? She would have fallen strait off the pick list for the pros. Her follow up cc and team fight set-up is key to her. Not her lane harass. And yet she had lane harass that was above average as well, so they nerfed it. That was a smart nerf, preserving why people would want to pick the champ while removing needless or random strengths they brought along with their selling points. As riot goes forward into improving the game, they will want and need to make balance changes that don't take away from a champs selling point while buffing what they are supposed to be good at. For instance, take the ap poke champs, xerath, lux, ziggs, and sorta syndra (and nid but she is kinda in between a lot of things atm). Why would you pick any of these over another?

Of the four, xerath and ziggs are muched more focused simply on their range, while syndra and lux bring pick potential from their long range cc. Betwen xerath and ziggs, ziggs used to be picked cause he had better wave clear. Xerath on the other hand brings hard cc and his ult over ziggs, and they have arguably similar wave clear now. If they wanted to distinguish these two more from each other, they could improve zigg's waveclear while taking away from somewhere else, and for xerath focusing more on his ult as it is farely unique, maybe giving another change should it kill someone (with number changes). Not saying either of these changes are a good idea, just giving an example.

Syndra and lux are a bit more complicated which is probably why syndra hasn't been nerfed yet and lux hasn't been buffed other than her passive lately. If you nerf syndras ult which is what most hate about her, you take away from her main strength, picks. Maybe she is too good at it, but it is her thing. Lux on the other hand is just a little too easy to dodge at max range but that is probably a good thing.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I though I would add my 2 (20?) cents.

Immortal Strife6 votes

The Pro meta does not equal the current solo que meta, and their scene should not be viewed as a measuring tool for determining viable champions.

RazorTS5 votes

Mundo is crap :)

Many champions just doesn't fit current gamestyle so none picks them or if they do they are useless (mundo), some are very strong and are rarely picked (Jayce)

Fisherman Fizz5 votes

Patch notes: See you in LCS Shen 0% pick rate at worlds.

What if he was picked, but you never saw him because the light just never caught him?

hOrnn4 votes

i also agree that its time to go back to the drawing board on ryze, he should not be allowed to scale off mana at all, he is competely broken in his current state, he beats everybody almost in lane, even at lvl 1 his damage to cooldown ratio is just plain stupid.

only champion i feel is more broken would be olaf.

Dryditch10 votes

You're shitting me right now, right? Olaf ?!?

OLAF? He's been gutted more than a fish with insides made of gold. Ryze is pretty OP, but Olaf is just so beyond weak right now.

Kingsgrave4 votes

I'd love to see a League of Legends where taking Tryndamere bot lane as our carry is just as viable as taking a Vayne and he could actually lane effectively against them. I doubt I will ever live to see that day.

Goumindong1 votes

This would be the worst design decision riot could ever make. If you make a melee champion strong enough under non-fed situations, to kill tanks in team fights (which is the point of ranged AD's) then that champion will be, by necessity, overpowered.

Kingsgrave5 votes

What does a Ranged Carry not destroy in team fights? What does a Melee Carry do better than a Ranged Carry?

Emmy Cha0s4 votes

Fearless: "While Sona is still very much on the winning side..."

0% Win Rate

Played only twice by a support player considered "unorthodox" in his champion pool, on one of the weakest teams in the tournament.

MAZZ1M04 votes

Fearless: "While Sona is still very much on the winning side..."

0% Win Rate

Played only twice by a support player considered "unorthodox" in his champion pool, on one of the weakest teams in the tournament.

I was just about to post that.

TheSlappySlap4 votes

This is half the reason why I play exclusively ARAM recently.

097Aceofspades1 votes

[deleted]

hashinshin54 votes

Your facts are wrong. Mundo had a 10% pick rate at worlds. Not huge, but he was definitely present. (I do still think he is not worth it as a pick but meh)

Read what I said again.

097Aceofspades46 votes

Turns out I'm retarded my bad

MakersF9 votes

One of the best reply I ever read. +1 for self irony!

Lt Cuddles7 votes

No dearie, everyone makes mistakes :3

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