Boards›Gameplay

So we're buffing BotRK again? Are we still pretending it's an anti-tank item?

hashinshin··186 votes·9,230 views

BotRK is an anti-tank anti-carry anti-bruiser anti-fighter anti-support anti-mage anti-poke anti-kite anti-death anti-life anti-god anti-rationalism anti-creationism anti-buddhism anti-crusadeofvarna anti-100yearswar anti-harrypotter anti-pasta item.

And we're buffing it even further?

BotRK is built on Ezreal just to poke with his Q.

BotRK is built on Zed to assassinate low health targets

BotRK is built on Shyvana to kill ADCs.

BotRK is built on Jax to kill fighters.

BotRK is built by twitch to insta-gib anyone who stands around him.

And we're buffing it even further? And for what? Remember when BotRK did exactly what you guys were changing it to do? You removed that mechanic because it was being abusive as fuck since tanks/fighters couldn't do anything about it any more. Nobody remembers old-BotRK on Udyr and him chasing around Renekton since a few autos was all he needed to out damage Renekton's entire combo? And we're bringing that back?

What are we doing next patch? Buffing thornmail with magic resist? Giving Omen some ability power? Giving Zhonya's hourglass a 90 second cooldown stasis?

Make an actual anti-tank item if you want an anti-tank item. Stop pretending BotRK is this item people only build for killing tanks. It's embarassing at this point.

More over: THE ITEM WAS ORIGINALLY ADDED TO BE BUILT ON FIGHTERS. Jesus fuck me christ what is wrong with Riot lately.

Oh, and we're nerfing cinderhulk next patch. Buffing anti-tank items -> nerfing the tank items -> another season of shitty melee. I thought we went through this in season 4... and 3... and 2... and 1...

184 Comments

Enkidusmurf66 votes

+1 just for the first sentence.

Svddenly50 votes

item 3153 Welcome the the Lee Sin and CertainlyT Show where some things do all the things. This episode featuring BotRK.

4nth0l0gy2 votes

underrated post

Junkο4 votes

If you compare CertainlyT champs to Lee Sin, they all seem like Ashe (except for Thresh, and Kalsita, broken fucks fucking nerf them asdjiasghaslhlo)

Svddenly5 votes

I guess you never saw the April Fools Lee Sin Spotlight.

Junkο5 votes

I watched it a thousand times cause it's funny and i can't find a connection between your post and it. Hell CertainlyT didn't even work back when fake Lee Sin champion spotlight was released.

BeatzBoyFTW23 votes

anti-buddhism anti-crusadeofvarna anti-100yearswar anti-harrypotter anti-pasta item.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/wat-meme.jpg

Sirsir3 votes

I feel so sorry for that lady...

Leti the Yeti18 votes

Bork is (also) built on tanks cuz this shit hurts so fking much ;l

LifeCyclesTWA12 votes

If you scale off of AD in this game, BotRK is never a bad choice. Plain and simple. Its ridiculous.

Drukyul5 votes

I see Kayles and Teemos get it too. Pretty much anyone that autoattacks.

LazyBub8 votes

Bork was intended for adcs to shred tanks and it still is. Some fighters are just really good with it, aka shyvana's double Q procs bork twice, jax too. Who else really builds it on top lane? Fizz maybe, since he's an on-hit champ but really.. who else?

Extreme Troller33 votes

{quoted}

Bork was intended for adcs to shred tanks and it still is. Some fighters are just really good with it, aka shyvana's double Q procs bork twice, jax too. Who else really builds it on top lane? Fizz maybe, since he's an on-hit champ but really.. who else?

everyone. ww, aatrox, even xin fiora or yi buy it, actually all bruiser buy it.

Reikken13 votes

I buy it on every single melee AD, except Talon, Pantheon, Darius, Garen. and on several ranged ones too

LeeDark11 votes

Riven? Jarvan? Renekton? Wu Kong?

You build on them? You're doing it wrong.

LeeDark7 votes

Darius Fiora Garen JarvanIV LeeSin Nasus Olaf Pantheon Poppy Renekton Rengar Riven Volibear MonkeyKing

Not common on any of those. So... you wanna rethink that "all bruiser" thing?

terkmc8 votes

Comon on Olaf to stop alleviate kiting, provide lifesteal, and % damage to counter the comon health stacking that counter his true damage. Also viable on Volibear because of the active, the as and the % health coupled with his high mixed base damage shred tanks

LeeDark2 votes

Voli has absolutely no need of BotRK to be a tank buster. He already has mixed damage and an execute ability. And yes, at some point since I last looked at Olaf a very long time ago, BotRK replaced Hydra in his most popular builds. Still doesn't change the fact that there are still 12 other bruisers in that list that don't build it.

Reazale1 votes

More like 10: Fiora, rengar and riven are light fighters (and rengar and fiora more like assesins) and not much like bruisers. Even tho is a decent amount of characters that dont used it that doesnt make the item bad or that there is a wider range of champs that have use for it.

Auz the Ripper2 votes

I wouldn't really consider Rengar to be a true light fighter, he doesn't have the sustained damage like Riven, Fiora, or Yi do

He's much more a true assassin

I'm not disagreeing with your point however

Aids cuz League10 votes

I buy it on AP Teemo :/

Captain Aishi3 votes

I get it as my first item on renekton when i'm playing against a tank that gets rod of ages or righteous glory, or as 2nd/3rd item when playing against most top lane mages, it's just an amazing item even without the passive+active, and these are pretty damn strong too

LeeDark4 votes

As someone who loves Renekton, that hurts my head. Rush Hydra if they aren't rushing armor..

Captain Aishi1 votes

it's actually pretty great in the scenarios i mentionned though, the passive applying on the W gives you good burst, and it allows you to trade autoattacks better than going for hydra, and that results in more kill pressure against tanky or kite-y champions that you can't burst down with your spell combo

LeeDark6 votes

Ravenous Hydra adds 112 damage to Renekton's Ruthless Predator and 168 damage to his empowered Ruthless Predator. Blade of the Ruined King adds 37 damage to it and 56 damage to the empowered version. This results in a difference, in sheer scaling for the ability, of 75 or 112 damage. You lose 40 damage on Cull the Meek, 60 damage on empowered Cull the Meek, 45 damage on Slice and 45 damage on Dice, and 68 damage on each pass of the empowered Slice and Dice. You potentially lose out on 225 damage if you use empowered Cull the Meek, or, and more likely, since you are fighting a tank and will want the armor shred of an empowered Slice and Dice, 251 damage. To make up for that 251 lost damage, you would need an opponent with more than 3000 health. Most tanks are not going to reach this amount in lane. In fact, no tank should reach that number while still in lane.

Now, the active works well enough on an all in around 2500 health, and I suppose that could be feasible in a long laning phase, but Renekton is someone who doesn't want a long laning phase. Ravenous Hydra lets you push the lane, take the tower, and move on quickly. And I failed to even consider how much better the health regen and 2% extra lifesteal are than 40% attack speed on a champion that combos, not attacks.

Captain Aishi2 votes

the bork passive on a target with around 1k health is 80 damage per hit, which is more damage than hydra's entire AD value, and it doesn't lose 25% efficiency when hitting someone with ruthless predator and in lane you don't want to use empowered E since it'll be only around 15-20% armor shred on someone who already has less than 100 armor anyway (like i said, i don't go bork against someone who rushes a frozen heart)

yukonl8 votes

Champions don't build it to counter tanks. They build it because their kits have amazing synergy with the item.

AkabaneKun6 votes

Volibear item 3269 item 3717 item 3083 item 3153 item 3143 item 3065 , the tank destroyer.

AsphodelNext7 votes

Trundle Olaf Skarner Udyr also work well. Trundle has got to be king of the tank destroyers though, with the ult that steals percent health, armor, and MR.

Junkο5 votes

I just want Riot to stop with the BS of changes not being tested on PBE because they know everybody would hate them.

Like the Botrk changes (only the build path got changed on PBE) Or Yasuo nerfs (It's NOT a buff. Literally no ability in the game can deal more than 60 damage early, plus 100 shield doesn't mean shit when it lasts 1 second and takes 1/4 of the time longer to charge up than it did before) Or when Nidalee got the snare on jungle monsters randomly out of nowhere few patches ago Or the Zed buff (though he was considered weak back then, it's still BS it never got tested) And tons of other stuff

YOU BEEN WARNED2 votes

#TRUTH

Vistha Kai2 votes

Nobody warned me. It just said "Show more" Q.Q

Zouave5 votes

pro gamer : botrk need nerf, why an item that is supposed to scale very hard lategame (%hp dmg) is rushed early by everyone ?

noob : hey riot botrk need buffs, look i got owned by thornmail

riot : ya i agree with noob, we will buff botrk next patch.

Linna Excel4 votes

BotRK is built on Zed to assassinate low health targets

This just feels wrong every time I see it. I know why he does it and if it works on him I won't blame is players for using it. Still, it feels wrong on assassins.

What are we doing next patch? Buffing thornmail with magic resist?

I was hoping thornmail got sustain, like 20% lifesteal.

Drakylon4 votes

Return Madred's Bloodrazors to the game, with a lower cost and different build path. And preferably make it physical damage.

That's a true anti-tank weapon. No active, no lifesteal, minimal AD. Just % max HP shred and attack speed.

Icy Auron4 votes

Hey, they finally fixed the 3s items. They were only five months behind. Maybe in early October of this year, they'll realize, "Did you know that BotRK does almost everything?"

Offended4 votes

As a pasta squid, I can confirm it is anti-pasta +1

Extreme Troller2 votes

NO, the botrk buff is still not confirmed by challengers players.

if botrk passive is considered a physical attack it can lifesteal but it can now be countered by thornmail which would be a botrk nerf.

ZephyrDrake7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Extreme Troller,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HZzF9Gk3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-28T22:23:01.341+0000)

NO, the botrk buff is still not confirmed by challengers players.

if botrk passive is considered a physical attack it can lifesteal but it can now be countered by thornmail which would be a botrk nerf.

botrk passive has always being physical damage though so it's actually a nerf to thornmail in that regard

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

botrk passive has always being physical damage though so it's actually a nerf to thornmail in that regard

If something can Lifesteal, then Thornmail can reflect it's damage.

Unless Riot changed how Thorn works while I wasn't looking.

ZephyrDrake14 votes

{quoted}

If something can Lifesteal, then Thornmail can reflect it's damage.

Unless Riot changed how Thorn works while I wasn't looking.

pretty sure botrk's passive isn't consider a basic attack for thornmail to affect it. Unless thornmail can reflect damage off on-hit effects

Auz the Ripper2 votes

It's rather unclear whether it can or not Thornmail reflects some on hits like Nasus Q but not others

It doesn't seem to affect BotRK from what I've seen, but I haven't truly tested it so I'm not sure

Edit: reread the patch notes, I'm pretty sure it'll be affected by thornmail now

junglerboy161 votes

So if it is affected by lifesteal, affected by thornmail, and has a higher minimum damage (side note, why the heck doesn't Liandry's if BotRK does?), that means a persona using it against thromail will do slightly more damage when the enemy tank get lower, heal for slightly more damage, and take slightly more damage... It seems almost like a net change of 0.

Auz the Ripper2 votes

If it is affected by thornmail, the net change will be negative. Thornmail reflects damage pre-mitigation or the damage that would be dealt if the target had 0 armor, not the damage the target actually takes. However, lifesteal only restores health base on the actual damage dealt.

So in order for the net change to be 0, you (the autoattacker) would need to have 30% lifesteal and Magic resist equal to the tank's armor (after penetration and reductions like black cleaver and last whisper).

In all other cases, Thornmail simply gains a % of the tank's current health as bonus damage

Nunya Bezwacks4 votes

Nasus Q isn't an on hit effect its an auto attack steroid

rG Thundrag2 votes

The only way BORK will go to an extreme to where adcs/assassins stop building bork for a burst tool is if it gave 0 AD and the passive did something like ignored resistances to some extent.

You'd still see it on fighters though to be honest.

Champion Skin6 votes

Well if they just removed the activate I am pretty sure a lot of ADC's/assassins wouldn't be as interested in it anymore

Sirsir1 votes

The main reason its so good on Bruisers and such is the Active for sticking. Remove the MS steal on it and its ADC primary. Of course no one will want that since its just taking more away from the low mobility champs.

Sire Hippington2 votes

funny that adc bult it for to have the aktive helping them with kiteing...

Sirsir3 votes

But they need it for kiting a lot less than melees need it for chasing. And these days they build it a lot more for the passive and damage on the active than for kiting.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by hashinshin

@Morello. So now that worlds is over I'm going to make this thread.
Gameplay313 comments
418
votes
So we're nerfing Shyvana due to her ability to power farm the jungle... Okay hear me out.
Gameplay168 comments
185
votes
Vayne is now literally the most popular champion in LoL, yet still maintains a 51% win rate.
Gameplay143 comments
151
votes
Shyvana has the only non-spammable movement ult that can be cancelled.
Gameplay100 comments
137
votes
So we are nerfing Thornmail, Omen, Frozen heart, and Dead Man's all on the same patch.
Gameplay246 comments
136
votes
Can we not do to Rek'sai what we did to Darius?
Gameplay155 comments
131
votes