Riot is reworking too many champions

Doodlzzz··6 votes·1,089 views

The mage update, the assassin update and now a whole new batch of reworked tanks. Even though some of these reworks ended in success, alot of them were big flops.

Malzahar how does this change anything???? Sejuani none of her old issues have actually been fixed Zac why was this rework even necessary? Leblanc why even rework leblanc???? Ryze i swear to god this better be the last Ryze rework

riot needs to calm down and rework less champions and put more thought into quality reworks that we can enjoy

16 Comments

SexyBabyJesusZ4 votes

the class updates almost never go well and only make even more problems

zac doesnt need a rework, maokais rework doesnt fix his problems of other champions being a better pick

TheHappyReaperz2 votes

Its funny because Maokai's problem wasn't having other champs being a better pick.

SexyBabyJesusZ1 votes

{quoted}

Its funny because Maokai's problem wasn't having other champs being a better pick.

yes it was, other tanks/champs might not do his job of damage reduction, but other tanks have more reliable damage/cc that would make picking him a waste

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Moakai's problem was he was a generalist who fit into any teamcomp, against anyone.

KoKoboto1 votes

Zac doesn't need a rework but it's much appreciated. Real talk, the only skillful part of Zac was his E, afterwards you'd just spam all your abilities off CD. I said this somewhere else but, technically we could say none of the champions need reworks, who cares if we leave them with outdated or low interactivity kits for ever amirite?

I think Mao'Kai is THE BEST Tank for dealing with casters now, even team picks a DPS mage or something and you will never die. His ultimate is kinda lame, I think they need to change it a bit.

Just going through the list of tanks: Leona tanky support that excels at engage Sejuani synergizes well with melee allies and point click CC Sion good zone control long range engage and a meat wall Nautilus has everything idk Alistar best tank for getting a champion away from your teammates Blitzcrank unique playstyle, tank that focuses on picks Poppy bodyguard tank similar to Alistar but shuts down dashes Galio tank that deals with magic damage and helps allies from far away Cho'Gath disruptor that shuts down with CC and pressure with true damage Shen tank that has good dueling, anti auto attack, strong global presence Jarvan pseudo tank that keeps enemies in one place Malphite great tank agaisnt armor and attack speed focused, strong engage Rammus good against auto attacks and strong peeling with taunt Singed disrupts backline with damage and fling pressure Amumu now amplifies magic damage of teammates and strong AoE shut down Zac disruptor tank that pushes enemies around in the middle of a fight

Big Lincoln4 votes

the quantity of the reworks isn't the problem

the quality is

MrHaZeYo2 votes

You don't think LB needed a rework? She was the assassin lol, she could safely burst from a distance, she was more mobile then the other assassins, she literally just looked at you and you died. I wish LB got reverted but then she would be back to being a powerhouse. Seriously W into range then QRE (they die) and you pop back to your start point.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

You don't think LB needed a rework? She was the assassin lol, she could safely burst from a distance, she was more mobile then the other assassins, she literally just looked at you and you died. I wish LB got reverted but then she would be back to being a powerhouse. Seriously W into range then QRE (they die) and you pop back to your start point.

FromSoft should ask Riot if they could borrow LB to be a boss for their next Souls game, but then again, they've probably come up with someone more brutal already (fuck you Nameless King, you piece of shit).

Śhunpo2 votes

Ah yes, then you have a look at Katarina:

Problems with pre-rework Katarina: -mediocre laning -over reliance on dream situations -garbage when behind -long cooldown on Shunpo -had very few powerspikes after Luden's and Void Staff -no means of CC -awful at duelling -extremely squishy at all stages of the game following the 5.2 HP nerf -doesn't contribute to her team unless she's selfish or a distraction -pretty shit scaling past 3 items and level 13 -Has a pretty useless ult. compared to a standard rotation

Problems with pre-rework Kat from the community's POV: -snowballed out of control if lane dominance was established -great at roaming and "fucking up my lane" -extremely quick and fluent burst rotations which one shot when ahead -could clean up entire teams for making too many mistakes -amazing at objective play when one team overextends -a semi reliable escape, wardhop -extremely high mobility upon getting resets

What pre-rework Kat did right: -Fluent kit -Had an assassin-like feel to her -Rewarded players for fully mastering her -Had a good splash art which didn't look like a cocaine addict :] -Properly showed just how ahead an assassin could get if you made no effort to learn counterplay -Healthy in terms of a balance sense. Simply nerf one ratio and that's that. -Passive felt natural on her kit

Now then, the problems with Kat post-rework and nerfs: -mediocre laning -long waits for daggers to drop -absolute garbage when behind -long cooldown on Shunpo when daggers are not consumed -clunky feel to her following the Shunpo cast time change -has very few powerspikes past Gunblade and Void Staff -no means of CC -better at duelling, worse at teamfights -extremely squishy, despite the HP changes -doesn't contribute to her team unless she's selfish or a distraction -awful scaling past levels 11 and 16 -atrocious teamfighting ability -a nightmare to balance due to over reliance on daggers -no reliable escape -Makes some matchups better, and some matchups borderline unwinnable -Opponents can literally just right click to escape daggers -Has a pretty useless ult. compared to a standard rotation -Passive doesn't feel natural on her kit

What post-rework Kat does right: -Increased mobility outside of resets -Rewards players for properly picking her up -Properly shows what happens when you turn an assassin into a semi-duellist (along with Rengar) -Made her laning somewhat better -Made more items accessible to her -Looks more stylish and complicated for newer players -Removes her assassin-like burst, replacing it with windows of huge damage once daggers drop

You see, Riot really did not make Kat any better. Instead, they took it upon themselves to remove many of Kat's key traits and make her harder for newer players, and easier for experienced players. Additionally, her identity as the janitor of teamfights is almost non-existent now, since how can she do that when it takes 10 years for a single dagger to drop. Sure, you might have got your first pentakill down in Silver V, but believe me, a lot of players in higher elos are not stupid, they know to move out of the way of daggers, or, better yet, stay out of Kat's ability ranges for the entire time. "But post rework Kat can outplay her opponents more!", that she can, but pre-rework Kat could also do this, no surprises. Lack of ward hopping means Kat is now more susceptible to ganks in a meta based around aggressive junglers. Furthermore, she just got clunkier all for the sake of "counterplay". Ironically enough this did not actually lessen the hate players feel towards Katarina, it made it worse. Now players hate how sticky she is, and how annoying she is post-Gunblade. You see, she still has a majority of her core problems intact. Most of these issues are not inherent weaknesses, they are problems in her design compared to other champions.

Also, really think about, what reasons are there to pick Katarina now over every other assassin? More AOE? Sure, but honestly you can achieve similar amounts of AOE with most other assassins, and most of the other meta assassins are more reliable. More mobility? Nope, hardly at all, Talon has more mobility outside of combat, Zed's mobility is better than Kat's, Fizz's is better than Kat's and LB's is arguably better than Kat's. Insane ability to snowball? Ehhhh, not really, every other meta assassin can snowball better than Kat, and they're much harder to shut down. Even Akali has more reasons to be picked than Kat.

I think the real question is, why does Riot feel the need to remove "unfair" traits from every champion in the game, and yet remain so bias against "well-designed" champions. It's funny, since Riot is perfectly ok with Syndra having a point and click burst tool, and yet they're not ok with assassins having burst in general. Burst damage in LoL as a whole is a flawed concept from Riot. There will always be burst damage once someone gets ahead, there will never NOT be burst damage. What I don't understand is why they felt the need to remove burst from SOME assassins and not all of them. If you're trying to go for an assassin identity change, change them all. Fizz, Zed, Talon, Ekko and Akali should all be changed in the same way Kat and LB were.

(Don't even get me started on what they did to Rengar)

However, from my POV, I actually think pre-rework Kat was fine. Honestly at this point I think it's the legions of complainers who wanted her changed. She was always a mediocre champ who rewarded proper mastery, there's no problem in that. She wasn't like pre-rework Urgot, with a small playerbase and borderline useless kit, she actually was quite popular compared to a lot of champs; with a kit that flowed well.

In a general sense I have an issue with reworks now. Riot is looking too far to add concepts to champs to "increase" their skill level. This will never work the way they intend it to, since often these concepts are easier to understand. Additionally, they're reworking champions that do not even need reworks, like Katarina, Rengar, Zac and Maokai. Those 4 mentioned champions were fine pre-rework. Maokai only became an issue when Riot nerfed every other meta top laner and emphasised the importance of tanks. Rengar only ever became an issue when he got fed out of his mind, same to Kat. As for Zac, he was fine, Riot just felt like they needed to make his ult. stronger, for some strange reason (because his old ult. definitely wasn't good enough already). I'm fine with Riot reworks champs that require reworks, such as Warwick, Yorick and Galio, however I'm not fine when Riot reworks champions simply for the purpose of potentially making them "healthier". When has this ever properly worked? Class updates have never worked the way intended. I'd argue the only champ which was a success would probably be LB after her rework nerfs, however even then it's a stretch since her initial rework state was 100% pick or ban on every server in both competitive and solo q.

Riot should just stop class updates and focus on individual champions. They should also stop releasing new champions, we do not need 300 champions thank you very much.

Vampire Diaries1 votes

{quoted}

Ah yes, then you have a look at Katarina:

Problems with pre-rework Katarina: -mediocre laning -over reliance on dream situations -garbage when behind -long cooldown on Shunpo -had very few powerspikes after Luden's and Void Staff -no means of CC -awful at duelling -extremely squishy at all stages of the game following the 5.2 HP nerf -doesn't contribute to her team unless she's selfish or a distraction -pretty shit scaling past 3 items and level 13 -Has a pretty useless ult. compared to a standard rotation

Problems with pre-rework Kat from the community's POV: -snowballed out of control if lane dominance was established -great at roaming and "fucking up my lane" -extremely quick and fluent burst rotations which one shot when ahead -could clean up entire teams for making too many mistakes -amazing at objective play when one team overextends -a semi reliable escape, wardhop -extremely high mobility upon getting resets

What pre-rework Kat did right: -Fluent kit -Had an assassin-like feel to her -Rewarded players for fully mastering her -Had a good splash art which didn't look like a cocaine addict :] -Properly showed just how ahead an assassin could get if you made no effort to learn counterplay -Healthy in terms of a balance sense. Simply nerf one ratio and that's that. -Passive felt natural on her kit

Now then, the problems with Kat post-rework and nerfs: -mediocre laning -long waits for daggers to drop -absolute garbage when behind -long cooldown on Shunpo when daggers are not consumed -clunky feel to her following the Shunpo cast time change -has very few powerspikes past Gunblade and Void Staff -no means of CC -better at duelling, worse at teamfights -extremely squishy, despite the HP changes -doesn't contribute to her team unless she's selfish or a distraction -awful scaling past levels 11 and 16 -atrocious teamfighting ability -a nightmare to balance due to over reliance on daggers -no reliable escape -Makes some matchups better, and some matchups borderline unwinnable -Opponents can literally just right click to escape daggers -Has a pretty useless ult. compared to a standard rotation -Passive doesn't feel natural on her kit

What post-rework Kat does right: -Increased mobility outside of resets -Rewards players for properly picking her up -Properly shows what happens when you turn an assassin into a semi-duellist (along with Rengar) -Made her laning somewhat better -Made more items accessible to her -Looks more stylish and complicated for newer players -Removes her assassin-like burst, replacing it with windows of huge damage once daggers drop

You see, Riot really did not make Kat any better. Instead, they took it upon themselves to remove many of Kat's key traits and make her harder for newer players, and easier for experienced players. Additionally, her identity as the janitor of teamfights is almost non-existent now, since how can she do that when it takes 10 years for a single dagger to drop. Sure, you might have got your first pentakill down in Silver V, but believe me, a lot of players in higher elos are not stupid, they know to move out of the way of daggers, or, better yet, stay out of Kat's ability ranges for the entire time. "But post rework Kat can outplay her opponents more!", that she can, but pre-rework Kat could also do this, no surprises. Lack of ward hopping means Kat is now more susceptible to ganks in a meta based around aggressive junglers. Furthermore, she just got clunkier all for the sake of "counterplay". Ironically enough this did not actually lessen the hate players feel towards Katarina, it made it worse. Now players hate how sticky she is, and how annoying she is post-Gunblade. You see, she still has a majority of her core problems intact. Most of these issues are not inherent weaknesses, they are problems in her design compared to other champions.

Also, really think about, what reasons are there to pick Katarina now over every other assassin? More AOE? Sure, but honestly you can achieve similar amounts of AOE with most other assassins, and most of the other meta assassins are more reliable. More mobility? Nope, hardly at all, Talon has more mobility outside of combat, Zed's mobility is better than Kat's, Fizz's is better than Kat's and LB's is arguably better than Kat's. Insane ability to snowball? Ehhhh, not really, every other meta assassin can snowball better than Kat, and they're much harder to shut down. Even Akali has more reasons to be picked than Kat.

I think the real question is, why does Riot feel the need to remove "unfair" traits from every champion in the game, and yet remain so bias against "well-designed" champions. It's funny, since Riot is perfectly ok with Syndra having a point and click burst tool, and yet they're not ok with assassins having burst in general. Burst damage in LoL as a whole is a flawed concept from Riot. There will always be burst damage once someone gets ahead, there will never NOT be burst damage. What I don't understand is why they felt the need to remove burst from SOME assassins and not all of them. If you're trying to go for an assassin identity change, change them all. Fizz, Zed, Talon, Ekko and Akali should all be changed in the same way Kat and LB were.

(Don't even get me started on what they did to Rengar)

However, from my POV, I actually think pre-rework Kat was fine. Honestly at this point I think it's the legions of complainers who wanted her changed. She was always a mediocre champ who rewarded proper mastery, there's no problem in that. She wasn't like pre-rework Urgot, with a small playerbase and borderline useless kit, she actually was quite popular compared to a lot of champs; with a kit that flowed well.

In a general sense I have an issue with reworks now. Riot is looking too far to add concepts to champs to "increase" their skill level. This will never work the way they intend it to, since often these concepts are easier to understand. Additionally, they're reworking champions that do not even need reworks, like Katarina, Rengar, Zac and Maokai. Those 4 mentioned champions were fine pre-rework. Maokai only became an issue when Riot nerfed every other meta top laner and emphasised the importance of tanks. Rengar only ever became an issue when he got fed out of his mind, same to Kat. As for Zac, he was fine, Riot just felt like they needed to make his ult. stronger, for some strange reason (because his old ult. definitely wasn't good enough already). I'm fine with Riot reworks champs that require reworks, such as Warwick, Yorick and Galio, however I'm not fine when Riot reworks champions simply for the purpose of potentially making them "healthier". When has this ever properly worked? Class updates have never worked the way intended. I'd argue the only champ which was a success would probably be LB after her rework nerfs, however even then it's a stretch since her initial rework state was 100% pick or ban on every server in both competitive and solo q.

Riot should just stop class updates and focus on individual champions. They should also stop releasing new champions, we do not need 300 champions thank you very much.

Woah i agree with you every single word bro kat never needed rework just a little buff for the laning phase

Marshbouy1 votes

Leblanc definitely needed a rework. Shit like this is not ok https://youtu.be/Zin4SAvu43E?t=10s

If her rework was a success or not is a different story though.

Psybicilin1 votes

I would be surprised if a fed assassin didn't one shot a 3 level down Lissandra with no hp items.

Marshbouy1 votes

Just google examples of LeBlanc one shotting people in LCS. Most, if not all will be within 1 second and with little to no warning.

Psybicilin2 votes

I don't think you are getting my point. I'm saying it's okay for people to get one shot by assassins with a large gold and level advantage. I'm having difficulty finding examples where LeBlanc isn't fed and is still bursting people instantly. And if an assassin lands their whole rotation on a squishy target, shouldn't that kill the target? The Huhi kill on to Wild Turtle was honestly WT not watching his screen, since Huhi was clearly farming mid wave (the clip from NA LCS 2016), Huhi landed his W, Q, E, R, Q and deleted the ADC. Like that seems pretty normal to me. Anywho that's just my opinon

Darkdemon6531 votes

Changing one (or fewer than one) ability is not a rework.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

galio was given more issues than he ever had before.

most notably lack of ultimate ability/presence.

riots just doing it to remove busted abilities so they can introduce more conditional/unique garbo without risk of being hard countered by something old school like galio.

galio receives flat healing from taking damage?

how on earth would riot introduce their 6 hit passive champion if they could just pick galio and heal to full off it?


old galio problems

mana constraints cooldowns awful auto attack animation/last hitting lack of presence without ult cant combo abilities cast times "wants to get hit but doesn't really"

new galio problems mana constraints even longer cooldowns and non synergistic times cant combo abilities cast times awful wave management, either shove or you're trading. wants to front line for a team but struggles to stick and punishes himself for trying to channel W, enemies literally walk away due to ms reduction. has no ult at all. wants to front line, but he front lines for exactly 4 seconds, and then you just ignore him for another 12 seconds and just kill him.

at least old galio had an ult.

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