I just hate it how one or two mistakes made in the laning phase can completely throw the game off balance and before you know it, your inhibitor is gone at 15 minutes.
I hate how these annoying lane bully champions are so good and annoyingly safe to play.
Riot we can been in this early game meta for long enough it's time for a drastic meta shift.
ModFrom The Cosmos39 votesFor me personally, I miss when the game went on longer. Season 1-3 sort of style. If you were behind, you warded up, played safe and turtled until the enemy makes a mistake. Everyone now a days is so quick to assume the game is over at the 15-20 minute mark when this is not always the case. Unless you're Diamond 1 60LP+ the game is not over before 10-20 minutes unless something catastrophic happens (Vayne penta kill at 10 minutes, every lane is 0/3 stuff like that)
People often times compare themselves to challenger streams and LCS players when in reality the game is a different world entirely in Solo queue in the bronze-plat range. You can always turtle, play smart and bank on the enemy making a mistake as it is almost guaranteed to happen. The game at a challenger level is different because one simple mistake can cost the lane or the game, whereas in something like Silver, you can make many many mistakes, throw the lead in the enemy favor, and then come back because the enemy throws the game at baron or makes a lot of other severe mistakes. The "wow 2/0 Yasuo, gg" mentality is by far my biggest frustrations with the game. The culture of people in lower elos comparing themselves to challenger is just unrealistic. A lot of veteran players will know what I'm talking about. The culture in this game was so different before there was seasons.
Ad Astra per Asp16 votesIf what you said were true then comebacks never happen in Challenger which is false and everyone knows it. The current game design however, has made comebacks exceedingly rare at all brackets and that's what the OP means.
Vectros3 votes[{quoted}](name=From The Cosmos,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWM4EFki,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-31T22:12:07.726+0000)
For me personally, I miss when the game went on longer. Season 1-3 sort of style. If you were behind, you warded up, played safe and turtled until the enemy makes a mistake. Everyone now a days is so quick to assume the game is over at the 15-20 minute mark when this is not always the case. Unless you're Diamond 1 60LP+ the game is not over before 10-20 minutes unless something catastrophic happens (Vayne penta kill at 10 minutes, every lane is 0/3 stuff like that)
People often times compare themselves to challenger streams and LCS players when in reality the game is a different world entirely in Solo queue in the bronze-plat range. You can always turtle, play smart and bank on the enemy making a mistake as it is almost guaranteed to happen. The game at a challenger level is different because one simple mistake can cost the lane or the game, whereas in something like Silver, you can make many many mistakes, throw the lead in the enemy favor, and then come back because the enemy throws the game at baron or makes a lot of other severe mistakes. The "wow 2/0 Yasuo, gg" mentality is by far my biggest frustrations with the game. The culture of people in lower elos comparing themselves to challenger is just unrealistic. A lot of veteran players will know what I'm talking about. The culture in this game was so different before there was seasons.
Pretty much my feelings. Sometimes I do want to surrender...but often my team is saying FF when it's 0/3...no turrets dead or anything. Like what?
MetalGearTeemu3 votesby giving even more generous surrender options (early surrender) you only validate the idiots who think the game is lost because the strong early game team has you guys down 11-4. And even tho your team is an enormous late game scaling behemoth and you have no inhibs down.
When people see you can surrender earlier, they naturally assume the game is decided earlier. This is why the surrender option should not exist. Cold turkey, get it the fuck out of here.
Force people to actually play till the end and you'll be amazed the kind of comebacks that happen.
and for gods sake get rid of rift herald, what the holy fuck were you thinking riot? Did the interns get this one as a project?
Just make the first dragon spawn a coinflip between baron pit and dragon pit, and make junglers actually adjust accordingly to the evolution of the map without adding another (the team that takes this first wins 70% of the time) objective to the map.
Venomar11 votesMy biggest bitch is being low Elo and nobody closing out a game.
You won the game 15 minutes in. Stoooop dicking around and being an ass and making me play for 35 more minutes. You got a lead now step on the proverbial throat and close it out.
I would care if games were over In ten minutes if they actually ended in ten. This shit where I'm stuck on the line for fourty minutes down thirty kills is annoying.
AirKingNeo5 votesHence why Vayne's winrate is highest in bronze.
It's weird, yet makes sense...
2Charmnot2Charm1 votesYea there is a rule in salty teemo's stream (a stream that spectates bronze-silver games mainly bronze) that you should always bet on the team that has master yi, vayne or any other strong auto attacking late game champ because they will always get to late game if no one surrenders.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku8 votes lane bul... Whut Oo ?
SweedishGunner4 votesOrianna is a super safe lane bully, what don't you get?
Ale non è male7 votesOrianna is a super safe lane bully, what don't you get?
The fact that Orianna is not a lane bully? I mean, she has a generally safe laning phase where she can farm without dying, which means she can wreck the f*ck out of you once she can get to mid-late game, but if you are getting bullied by Orianna before she can get at least blue buff (if in Solo Q a jungler give up its second blue buff) you are either picking a losing lane match-up (which you are not able to manage) or you are getting outplayed.
If Orianna is a lane bully than what should Syndra or mid lane Lulu be considered?
cocacolalips5 votesOrianna zones 90% of the champions in the game out of lane with her 800 range spammable poke and empowered AA. So does Syndra, so does Lulu, and so does Caitlyn. That's why they are lane bullies. They literally bully other champions out of lane and prevent them from hitting minions or fighting back.
Blåbæret6 votesOrianna's not a lane bully.
cocacolalips4 votesThis is not a debate rofl, I am paraphrasing with simple words the definition of a lane bully. Now you can call a cat a dog or a bird if you wish, I don't care, here in the real world, we call it a cat.
Blåbæret3 votesDo you really think I give two shits?
AlsoJinxBot5 votesDo you really think I give two shits?
I mean you did decide to click on this post and then type out a comment. You must care at least one shits worth if your willing to do that.
Ale non è male4 votesOrianna zones 90% of the champions in the game out of lane with her 800 range spammable poke and empowered AA. So does Syndra, so does Lulu, and so does Caitlyn. That's why they are lane bullies. They literally bully other champions out of lane and prevent them from hitting minions or fighting back.
Orianna damage early is not that high to zone you out of lane, unless you eat her full combo (and so it so multiple times). If she spam too much her spells she go Oom and you can really try to punish her by diving or forcing her under tower
Not even close enough to a Syndra/lulu/cait level, tbh (especially because she has to ramp up that empowered AA on a single target, so she can't use them to poke you out of lane)
Her laning phase is too good for a mid-to late focused champ? We can agree on that, but that's not being a lane bully
cocacolalips1 votesAs Orianna you literally place the ball in front of the minions and press Q whenever the other guy tries to cs (exactly like you do with Syndra). Done. 800 range, no counterplay, no counter harass, can't cs, underleveled, underfarmed and outraded. It's not hard. You have never played against an average/good Orianna if you have never been bullied out of lane.
Ale non è male1 votesAs Orianna you literally place the ball in front of the minions and press Q whenever the other guy tries to cs (exactly like you do with Syndra). Done. 800 range, no counterplay, no counter harass, can't cs, underleveled, underfarmed and outraded. It's not hard. You have never played against an average/good Orianna if you have never been bullied out of lane.
If your champ has any form of ranged waveclear is not even comparable to true lane bullies. The risk of dying or get denied forever is not even close as those true lane bullies
Good laning phase =/= lane bully, you can get around and beat Ori in lane
cocacolalips1 votesYour post is not comprehensible, "true lane bully" wtf does that mean? as opposed to "fake lane bully"? rofl. your ranked elo is 600, you are wood 5, and you have never played against a mediocre Orianna, let alone a good one. Why are you even here?
Waveclear / poke mages (ziggs, xerath, velkoz..) are the 10%, and even then they get bullied before they buy their first item since they need to AA minions to cs.
Ale non è male1 votesYour post is not comprehensible, "true lane bully" wtf does that mean?
If a competent player use a real lane bully, you have close no chance to win lane, because they have tools that inherently prohibit you from doing anything but play defensively
Example, competent Cait with her range + headshot will punish you every time you try to get close to CS with her AA which is free and consistent harass available in her toolset. If her trap placement is good she will zone out both you and your support and force you to play defensively and survive You have small window where she doesn't completely wreck you and you can use them to barely survive early laning and hope to catch up later
Now compare that to orianna. NOT even close. And no one agree with a scrub like you on a stupid idea like that, not even much better players than me (guess why you get downvoted?)
SO shut the hell up scrub and learn to play before you can talk, as you have no argument to sustain your claim
cocacolalips1 votesOrianna's ball her Q has more range (800) than Caityn's AA (650) zzzzzz
It's common knowledge, I don't even know why you argue. You don't understand the game.
Ale non è male1 votesOrianna's ball her Q has more range (800) than Caityn's AA (650) zzzzzz
It's common knowledge, I don't even know why you argue. You don't understand the game.
Since when Orianna is playing as a marksmen in the bot lane?
Cait is a lane bully vs her counterparts, the champs played as marksmen in bot lane. Orianna has a decent/good laning phase but does not dominate it against her counterparts, the champs played in the mid lane
Geez, you are dense
Fairyfleur2 votesHer harrass is not spammable. If you use dissonance too much you will run out of mana, and if you use each spell as it is off cooldown.
cocacolalips1 votesCommand Attack TARGET RANGE: 825 COLLISION RADIUS: 175 SPEED: 1150 COST: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 MANA COOLDOWN: 6 / 5.25 / 4.5 / 3.75 / 3
COOLDOWN: 6 / 5.25 / 4.5 / 3.75 / 3
6 / 5.25 / 4.5 / 3.75 / 3
Orianna. Not spammable. Pick one.
Pressing Q is hard.
But the other guy I'm answering to has also apparently a ranked elo of 600 rofl bottom 4% of the ranked ladder and is literally wood 5.
Why do people like him and I assume people like you comment on the boards? Now I'm curious. In what reality do you think it's a good idea to comment on a subject you have no understanding of? You just look stupid. If you knew what you were talking about you wouldn't be wood 5 so you clearly don't. If I don't know something, I shut my mouth and I listen to more experienced-knowledgeable persons, to learn. Why don't you? What's wrong with you?
darkmatchwaldo1 votesPosting from your smurf? You're not even ranked. Login from your challenger account before you go dumping on people.
darkmatchwaldo1 votesYou can also avoid almost all of her damage with any dash ability in the game so.....yeah.
As soon as she uses Q-W all you have to do is go aggro.
it's really not that hard. It's not like she can just point click delete you off the face of summoners rift like 
.
cocacolalips1 votesOrianna doesn't only zone with Q-W, she zones with Q spam (and AA). Her Q has 5 seconds cooldown, you are not going to out dash her Q with your 20 seconds cooldown dash + not every champion has a dash.
Just Blame Jenny2 votesI used to think Orianna was a lane bully. Then I tried the rare technique of hitting her back after she hit me. Turns out she's really vulnerable and can even be killed when her spells are on cooldown. Who knew?
Dukues7 votesYea I am really sick of it.
Ben Sharpio7 votesim more annoyed that people are not using the 15 minute surrender option. There's always that one person who just wont fucking move on and lose 18 LP, but would rather try and pull off a 1 in 1000 comeback game.
Doodlzzz8 votesI feel like games shouldn't be over by 10 - 15 minutes ever, yet so many games are unwinnable at that point.
AirKingNeo6 votes
Seriously, this guy is played by a lot of top top top tier challenger players. He's got the best winrate top lane too. He's very overpowered, and only truly falls off at the 30 minute mark.
And you what? Riot doesn't seem to care. It's been 2, 3, maybe 4 patches of this? He's not nerfed. They haven't said anything either. Plain and simple, Riot doesn't care about balance. They stopped caring for a while now. They care about appeasing their players. Two of the most popular champions got new legendary skins, supports get buffed again after enough complaining, Caitlyn gets nerfed after enough complaining, Lucian is barely nerfed because he's fun to play, ect, ect. The general populace doesn't complain about Pantheon or Fiora, so they don't get nerfed. High elo players do, most say, "Yeah, Fiora's overpowered." but they aren't being listened too because they aren't a majority.
ActivatingEMP7 votesHe's only really strong due to this early game meta though: pantheon has always been used as an example of a balanced lane bully. He shits all over you on laning phase, but lacks the tools to win if the game drags too long
AirKingNeo1 votesExcept Pantheon doesn't fall off until 30 minutes in. That's the problem.
An Enemy Sutando4 votesHis presence starts falling off at 20 minutes. Once he hits that mark, Panth should try to end the game asap. If he can't he becomes useless in teamfights.
AirKingNeo1 votesHis winrate doesn't fall from top 3 by game length until past 35 minutes.
This evidence proves it. https://na.op.gg/champion/pantheon/statistics/top
Vumzuces1 votesall of op.gg's stats are from korean server .. hes right
if you dont believe it go to euw.opgg and youll see exact same winrates/pickrates as NA and KR.
OP.gg is a korean company and all stats are from that region
KoKoboto3 votesHe's not overpowered... It's just that this early game meta heavily favors early game champions. Pantheon is one of the best early game champions.
AirKingNeo1 votesPantheon has been the #1 winrate top laner for 4 patches in a row, and before that was 2nd best. https://na.op.gg/champion/pantheon/statistics/top
His winrate doesn't fall off until after 35 minutes (what the fuck), his playrate is rising (but his winrate isn't dropping), and high elo players say he needs to be nerfed.
Don't say he's not overpowered when statistics and expert opinion happen to say you're completely wrong.
SpaghettiVase4 votesHope you realize those are korean stats.
AirKingNeo2 votesIt says na.op.gg, that's NA, not Korea.
Anything else you wanna try to refute?
EDIT: Grammar
AMYS GRAVE2 votesClicked the link you posted, one of the first things it says is ...
Region : Korea - Version : 7.10
Nevesnotrab2 votesYes. "Rebuttal" is a noun, not a verb. You mean "refute."
SpaghettiVase1 votesRegion: Korea - Version: 7.10 Hover your mouse over the grey question mark it will say "Currently, there isn't enough data to analyze champions and their performance in other regions. Once we get enough data from other servers, we will provide region-specific Champion data"
I understand that the url says NA meaning North American, but the info on the site is not accurate at the moment. I would suggest checking multiple sites to make sure you get correct/more accurate champion statistics.
korg0232 voteslisten,i know Pantheon is strong ,but he is only strong if you dont know what you are doing versus him. When you play vs Panth you always buy new doran shield ,that shiled fucks him up early game and Panth is all about early game. Second,give up some farm,its ok. You cant have more farm than Panth if he knows what he is doing. The most most most important thing is to play safe and dont try to fight him early on. If you dont die early which you should not if you just do all the steps i mentioned,he is useless,complete garbage. Trust me if Panth leaves the lane without kills ,you win the game unless your other lanes fed so hard. I played Panth a lot and it is so easy when enemy doesent know what they are doing vs me in lane. But when they know they just play safe,stay back,and wait out. They all outscale Panth ,there is never a situation in which Panth is going to outscale anyone he is going to fall off so fast you cant even believe in that. Also he is mana gated,few spears and poof hes oom,also all of the Panths are taking Ignite top which puts him in dissadvantage. His push is awful,he has no tp to come back in lane beside his ult that is used to roam and costs 100 mana. He cant push lane if he manages to kil you and you just tp back and push lane and potentialy kill him. Even if you fail to kill him he will lose 3 waves at least from walking all the way to lane. Only annoying thing about him is that he can roam with his ult and make plays,you cant control that but its too risky for him. If he fails to secure a kill or assist he wasted so much time ,exp and gold and iwll fall even more behind.
AirKingNeo1 votesThat's why his winrate is so fucking high in diamond right now?
Alright then?
SorryForYourLoss5 votesYou know what loses games at 10:00?
YOUR ATTITUDE.
nice table4 voteslane bully orianna ???
Lucian Waifu3 votesThere are still plenty of champions and ways to turn a game around if you are behind at 10 minutes. Just last game I was playing Rakan support, first time in ranked, we were down for most of the match, including at 10 minutes, yet we came back and won because we stuck with the strategy of just farming and delaying the game until we outscaled the enemy. As a mid main I have been maining Ziggs after I could no longer carry as Ahri when I hit Plat 3. Ziggs can extend a game almost indefinitely with his wave clear being able to hold 2 lanes at once and then roam to the third lane to hold it. If you are having trouble with games being decided after 10 minutes then play wave clear champs that can extend games, something most people even in platinum don't think of even though wave clear is a very important attribute in solo queue.
Papa Slothy1 votesthat's one of the reasons why I love GP