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I don't want a certain meta

Visigoth··67 votes·4,637 views

I want, "This guy is good at X champion so it does well"

I don't want "Gragas is really good right now just pick him." People need to be more open. If you're good at Sejuani and enjoy her, play her, but don't play her just because you want to win, unless you find joy in that, in that case, go for it. If you like playing assassins top, then go for it dude, don't let that Hecarim or Shyvana stop you from doing you. If you want to play support Viktor, and it works for you, then do it. Don't just play Nautilus because he's super strong.

A defining play style meta will be the death of this game. If you force Assassins in, then poke mages are gonna leave the game, if you force having an ADC hyper carry like Vayne and then 4 people to protect them, you're gonna make assassin players leave.

Stop trying to go with the flow. You won't be the next great player because you play flavor of the month champions. Do you really want to be "That guy as good as Faker" or somebody who people aspire to be. Don't be a follower, find what you like, and play it. I don't play full AD Kha'Zix and Nocturne because it wins games easy, I play them because I find it fun. Yeah, you can play tank Shyvana, or you can play full AD Shyvana and burst people down like a baller.

What I'm trying to say is, do what you want to do. If you like playing tanks, then the meta just so happens to welcome you, but as soon as that meta shifts, keep playing those tanks. Don't be another follower, be the next leader. Don't aspire to do good in the current meta, do so well that you create the next meta. Don't copy LCS picks, do so well that LCS players want to copy you.

Do you.

104 Comments

mi ramfan29 votes

The best players aren't the ones who follow the meta by rote, they're the ones who are a month ahead of the meta figuring out what the next meta will be and playing it before anyone else catches on.

Rikari9 votes

the best players set the meta.

Mitch Sorenstein2 votes

{quoted}

the best players set the meta.

And Riot endorses it.

hashinshin8 votes

Riot balance team is the best players?

Rikari1 votes

tell me how the balance team made Nautilus support a thing. the duo skin? also Jinx ,Graves Hecarim summoner 12 summoner 14

Minrog1 votes

They buffed Nautilus in patch 5.5.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-55-notes

Hecarim was buffed in 5.1.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-51-notes

summoner 12 summoner 14 have been used for years so I dunno why you mention those. If you mean in regards to Hecarim I've been seeing him going towards summoner 11 summoner 12 now.

Rikari1 votes

Nautilus was designed to be a jungler,yet despite cinderhulk,he is a support. why is that? Hecarim is also a jungler,yet despite the scuttle shrine buff to his already unstoppable ganks,he is played top. why is that? Also he is getting a nerf to his top lane damage to shift him back to a jungler. Im also pretty sure the balance team doesnt want smite top lane. I also notice you didn't mention the adcs,why is that?

ChargeItDownMid15 votes

[deleted]

Sammystorm2 votes

Pros are usually the ones to set the meta for a reason.

manbearswine3 votes

{quoted}

Pros are usually the ones to set the meta for a reason.

Set implies that they decide the meta,which for the most part they don't,they figure out what the strongest picks are,they don't make the pick strong themselves.

Sammystorm1 votes

They do decide it. It sure as hell isn't Riot.The best people in the world are emulated by everyone else. An example is tele/smite top shyv recently.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

They do decide it. It sure as hell isn't Riot.The best people in the world are emulated by everyone else. An example is tele/smite top shyv recently.

Think of it as a form of science(just don't start worshiping it) physicists(/etc) don't decide the laws of the universe but they do work to discover them(and have made some solid progress so far).

In the same way competitive players(presumably the best players) try to figure out what are the best way to win a game of lol(and don't devalue it,they are payed quite a lot for that(well and putting it into practice)),they don't dictate what the strongest picks are,but they do try to find them(and generally also achieve that pretty well).

Sammystorm1 votes

So what exactly are you stating then?

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

So what exactly are you stating then?

That optimal picks exist,they are decided by the numbers which are decided by riot but riot can never understand their full implications,and are generally best understood by the competitive scene.

Sammystorm1 votes

Yet basically everything that is common know has been decided by the player base not by riot.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

Yet basically everything that is common know has been decided by the player base not by riot.

No.

They are figured out by the playerbase,but ultimately they are decided by riot(even if often unintentionally). Urgot is as strong as he is right now not because players started playing him,but because riot gave him a mana ratio on his shield,lux isn't played right now not because players ignore her,but because riot refuses to buff her.

Riot simply isn't fully aware of the implications of the changes they make(which on it's own is fine,it's not an easy thing to do),but the players just discover things which are already there,whereas riot is the one creating said things(again,even if unintentionally).

Sammystorm1 votes

Functionally I think are points our more or less the same. Ultimately Riot creates the possibility and the players discover it.

EDIT: Earlier I compared Riot to a catalyst and I stand by the comparison. Riot is part of the process and speeds up meta shifts but ultimately the players decide what the meta will be.

Another way of putting it. Riot crates the framework but the people inside the framework decide all the little details.

manbearswine1 votes

{quoted}

Functionally I think are points our more or less the same. Ultimately Riot creates the possibility and the players discover it.

EDIT: Earlier I compared Riot to a catalyst and I stand by the comparison. Riot is part of the process and speeds up meta shifts but ultimately the players decide what the meta will be.

Another way of putting it. Riot crates the framework but the people inside the framework decide all the little details.

That's just the thing,I'd argue the players decide nothing,all they do is try to figure out the best way to win with the numbers riot gives them,It's that riot isn't fully aware of the implications of their changes,but they set the rules(the numbers of each champion/etc),the players try to find the best way to win with those set of rules.

In a simplified way think of it this way: In patch there exists an optimal way(including picks/builds/etc) to play the game,riot isn't aware of it but the players do a decent job at trying to figure it out,but they aren't the ones deciding what way that is,that way already exist,all they do is try to find something which is already there.

Sammystorm1 votes

Well I think our conclusions are just different.

YouBelong2Disney1 votes

Lol.. actually it is riot.. They release new content and the meta changes to broken stuff, broken stuff is fastest discovered by the best players. Your misconception that it's made by the pros is just ludicrous lmao it's made by the patch changes... why else would the meta ever change if not for the patches ? bronze logic.

Like right now everyone thinks Khazix is bad.. Khazix is heavily played right now in high elo.. So is shaco lol.. they're not tanks but they know that if they can instantly kill the backline late game the cinderhulks dont matter... they just pressure early before they get built up and grab dragons then pop the backline until they 5 drag them and then they just win.

Sammystorm3 votes

Since you brought up ratings I will point out that you are silver 2 I am gold 4. The patches influence what the meta becomes certainly. You are also correct in stating that broken stuff is discovered faster by the best players. You are also correct in stating that the meta would likely not change if their were no patch notes. However, Riot can't possible set down what people will actually play, their are just too many variables. For example, Riot never intended Warwick to be broken. They were trying to create a more diverse jungle meta. Instead the top players found out that Warwick with a particular item was horrible broken. In this case who is everyone emulating? Its the players. Another example, Riot discovered that mana regen was becoming problematic so they nerfed it across the board. What happened? The top player base discovered/theory crafted that manaless assassins would be good. People starting copying that. Who was everyone emulating? The top players.

Basically it boils down to the fact that Riot is the catalyst for new metas but the players them selves actually decide what the meta will look like.

Minrog1 votes

The meta changes when people win with something else.

So yeah, people copy winners. Welcome to humanity.

Bethor Kookalian1 votes

Which was being theory-crafted by people other than the pros as soon as the idea hit PBE(so before the pros even had a chance to popularize it). Pros don't truly set the meta because they're not even always the early adopters or popularizers.

Also, you fail to distinguish between "I found the good meta" and "I decide the good meta", which are functionally the same to those that follow trend-setters, but are distinctively different in other ways(and was the line MANBEARSWINE was pointing out). In the former, the meta would be different if the pros played different, but in the latter, the meta would be the same more or less despite the pros.

Sammystorm1 votes

Well honestly the reason I take the stance I do is because I believe to create something you have to be more or less cognitive of what you are creating. I don't believe Riot is always aware of what they are creating. I overall do agree with manbearswine. My conclusion is just slightly different for the above stated reason.

Bethor Kookalian1 votes

Except your above stated reason uses an example that runs contrary to fact.

Fact 1: -RIOT- decided that running smite on tanky champions was going to be stronger now by making cinderhulk.

Fact 2: Pros didn't create/decide/discover the teleport/smite top laner meta. That was theory-crafted publicly on reddit prior to Cinderhulk hitting live.

I can't imagine why you'd think pro players deserve the credit for that.

Sammystorm1 votes

"Fact 1" Riot didn't decide that. Riot decided to try and make it so it would be unattractive for laners to buy jungle items by making you have smite and lose out on a combat summoner. People found out that the pay off was greater then the cost in that specific situation. Specifically with Cinderhulk Riot was trying to bring in more diversity into the jungle.

"Fact 2" I am unaware of the specifics of how tele smite became a thing but I never once said pros developed the meta. I did say top players developed it which would include people theory crafting as well as the pros.

I never said the pros deserved credit for it.

Bethor Kookalian1 votes

{quoted}

I never said the pros deserved credit for it.

Um, whut?

{quoted}

Pros are usually the ones to set the meta for a reason.

Can you at least keep your responses accurate to yourself?

Sammystorm1 votes

Let me clarify. I never said the pros deserved credit for top smite tele. I also never said that the pros were the only one to set the meta.

Bethor Kookalian1 votes

These are all direct replies to each other:

{quoted}

Pros are usually the ones to set the meta for a reason.

{quoted}

Set implies that they decide the meta,which for the most part they don't,they figure out what the strongest picks are,they don't make the pick strong themselves.

{quoted}

They do decide it. It sure as hell isn't Riot.The best people in the world are emulated by everyone else. An example is tele/smite top shyv recently.

The "they" in the last quote can -only- mean "pros" by context. The example of tele/smite is being attributed to -that- "they", meaning the "pros". So again, PLEASE, keep your position internally consistent. Either by conceding a point or by holding to your original one. I can't really begin to have an actual conversation with you about the point otherwise at hand until you stop being inconsistent with what you said.

Sammystorm1 votes

First quote the word usually makes a huge difference on the meaning of the sentence.

The last quote was poorly phrased and likely to cause confusion because I did not specifically state who the "they" in my post is. Although a little inconsistent you are being nit picky. I have one quote out of all of them that is slightly inconsistent. You jump on that and make a big deal out of it. I can't begin to have a real conversation with you because you are more fixated on the grammar and phrasing and as such ignore the original point. Also you haven't particularly tried to have a conversation. Basically your point has been, your wrong because Riot makes the meta and your one post is worded poorly.

If you agree with Manbearswine then me and you most likely mostly agree and just disagree on the conclusion. I believe that Riot has set the framework and the players have set the meta with in that framework. Specifically the top portion of the player base. Yours and manbearswine's opinion is that because Riot creates the framework that they inadvertently create meta's and the players just discover them. Functionally they are the same idea. I disagree with your opinion because I do not think that it is possible to create something as specific as a meta without intentionally doing so. The fact of the matter is that Riot's plans often times change things in unexpected ways and as such I don't believe it is Riot that creates the meta.

There I saved you from the reading that it appears like you did not want to do.

Bethor Kookalian1 votes

1.I'm not being nitpicky, I'm interpreting pronouns in the only reasonable way I can. If this poses a problem for understanding you, they're superfluous, you can make points without them, and be more clear for the effort.

2.I never said you said the word "only", only you did. I ignored it precisely because I -wasn't- being nitpicky. What I am being is someone trying to understand what you're saying, and what you've said were not making sense when interpreted reasonably.

3.To continue on point 1, if you don't want "they" to mean "pros", in that quote, what DO you want it to mean? If you mean "top portion of the player base", could you elaborate? What do you define as the top portion? Diamond+? Master+? Challenger+Pros? Please be specific enough so that I can tell what your position is.

4.Your opinion and mine are NOT functionally the same. That's there's a key and fundamental difference between deciding something and discovering it.

5.Have you ever made a tie-dye shirt? Even the best of the best can't fully control what they create, but they're the ones deciding and creating the shirt. This is what I liken Riot's role to. They're tie-dye shirt makers of a sort. They put a rubber band here, a dip in blue dye there, and they're doing it intentionally, and for reasons, but the result is not 100% predictable, and sometimes, a shirt comes out wrong, but such is life. Players, we're....honestly, I don't see much analogy out there, but what we're doing is finding and using tools. We don't invent those tools, we find them. Empire Nunu existed LONG before we called it that. In-Sec didn't invent the play we name after him, I'm not even sure he discovered it, but he did popularize it. Even things like tele/smite top has been a thing people of ALL ELOS have been looking at since forever, every time a promising change comes down the pipeline. There's a reason smite-top WW/Fiora were ibiquitous immediately upon the launch of pre-season. That never took off because Riot threw nerf after nerf at it until it stopped because top-smite-WW was stupid, but the idea was there. When cinderhulk offered a stronger scaling option for top-smite, the conversation came back up(idk the rank fo the guy on reddit I saw theorycrafting it before everybody else, but he wasn't good enough to pull rank, so I'm assuming not challenger). Sure, teleport is new, but its a logical transition on the champions using it. Hecarim didn't really need flash, but top laners kinda do need teleport at the pro level and probably as far down as gold, so nobody is really surprised that this transition happened.

Old Man Teeto1 votes

The "Pro" meta is far from solo-que meta.

How often do you 2v1 lane swap? Double jungle early? 4 man dive the top laner at 3:40? Zone and proxy an entire wave with your team.

Place wards to scout for which lanes champions are going at 1:30~

You don't. The game is far different for us than them.

Sammystorm1 votes

Yet we see 1-1-1-2 in every ladder except for the very very top. Even at the top we have a system that functionally is the same but with just a slight variations. We got that because people that were good at the game discovered that lay out was the most efficient way to win and everyone else wanting to win started emulating it. We see minor changes all the time but it usually takes a while for it to filter down the ladder.

Avios17 votes

Exactly. This is the whole reason why I live and breath when playing league. I don't care whether or not people flame me for playing jungle Leona, I will play it because I know it works. I don't care if people flame me for not playing Sejuani or Zed, I refuse to play meta champs, I think meta is just a Trash system, and deserves to be removed. +1 to this man, He knows the true spirit of League of Legends.

Pæan4 votes

Dude why are you playing shaco, he is a cRap champ. Kikis plays shaco in LCS, dude you need red smite and exhaust for shaco, that's what pros do. never mind that shaco is my highest played champ of all time and I have 40 ranked games this season with a 70% or so winrate... but ok that one game is more important.

I hate the sheep more than anything, that's why I have a great respect for people that main champs no matter what, like boxbox with riven, even though it's riven xD.

The Bíg Ticket2 votes

{quoted}

Dude why are you playing shaco, he is a cRap champ. Kikis plays shaco in LCS, dude you need red smite and exhaust for shaco, that's what pros do. never mind that shaco is my highest played champ of all time and I have 40 ranked games this season with a 70% or so winrate... but ok that one game is more important.

I hate the sheep more than anything, that's why I have a great respect for people that main champs no matter what, like boxbox with riven, even though it's riven xD.

Only lunatics play Shaco. No sane person would find joy in that champ.

FedAsFuk4 votes

Well said. I will not stop playing Riven, sure overall the current meta is kind of painful for me and her at the moment, but in a month it will change, and I will be there, ready to butt fuck your backline again.

See you soon,

  Sincerely, the Riven who fucked your carries.
IcyPepper3 votes

Please be gentle ;~;

FedAsFuk3 votes

As long as Trist can self peel you across the entire screen to the CC stacked tanks there will be no gentle.

IcyPepper3 votes

I-it's my f-first time, senpai.

Transgressor1 votes

yamete kudasai (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ

blueberrypancake1 votes

Amumu Don't touch me I'm just a little boy xD

Dedrius3 votes

Look at DruidDroid, his singed basically defined a major aspect in playing singed that even caused Riot to implement patches to combat his style of play.

Transgressor1 votes

I miss this guy. So sad I wasn't here to watch his stream. I only got to know him through some videos on youtube which are propably not even uploaded by him.

Bemapon2 votes

I agree with this to an extent. I would prefer people play things they are good at over whats in the meta. However if my team really needs a tank or cc and the last person picks Shaco then I have a bit of a problem.

EvilRabbitt2 votes

Only problem is, when I do things I find fun (come on, Shaco support pick into Leona...who can deny the lols at the failure when she engages and gets murdered), people dodge. No matter how effective it is. =/ That Shaco support thing worked so well, I got fed hard and my adc got fed even harder....but it took 4 queues with two leona's (such meta).

Cindikle2 votes

If this is about ranked, you're wrong. Sorry. Ranked is about playing the game competitively, not about playing your favorite champion. If you get the chance to, great! But don't expect it. Play to win. Play for the challenge. Just because you enjoy full AD Nasus in the jungle, doesn't make it a good idea when people are playing to win(yes there is a difference, and no that doesn't mean they're not playing for fun). Please don't take this as me saying don't have fun. Just don't go into ranked and do stupid stuff. Especially if you're lower ranked. You don't fully understand the game yet. You're not going to get away with full tank Teemo like a Diamond can.

Outside of this, yes. Play what you want. As long as you can preform that roll, you are doing nothing wrong. Knowing how to win the game will get you higher in rank than knowing how to do well on a champion. I'd even say mastering your champion is the least important thing you can do. Master your enemy, the map, then your own champion. Mastering your champion will only win you lane. How often do we see threads about "won lane, lost game, stupid team".

In short, play what you enjoy while being respectful to those who have to play with you. Before you try to make ADC Brand a thing, you better understand the map and the enemy a bit better.

gubigubi1 votes

<--- Mained Fiora for 3 straight seasons and so far am gold 2 ain't no meta can hold my carry down

Sypher The Poro1 votes

Screw the meta. I will play my AP Riven with pride.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

Its funny because

  1. 9/10 players that are upvoted or are commenting on this thread "yeah! screw the meta! the best players are the ones that break it!" are the same players that report players such as DruidDroid and Cowsep for playing proxy Singed/Master Yi.

  2. 9/10 players that agree with this thread also chew out their teammates for using unconventional builds. Remember when Riven used to be built much more tanky? I once saw a game where HotShotGG rushed Warmog's on her. Now, people make use of her crazy AD ratios and snowball like crazy, and chances are that the guy who popularized her AD build got banned multiple times along the way because of this shit playerbase and their bias against anything that goes against the norm/non-LCS builds.

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