Nunu giving AP, boards: "riot is opening the meta"

Ahristocats·Jan 12, 2018·20 votes·2,964 views

[sg-lux-2]

all this is going to do is people still playing the same shit and nunu giving ap to the midlaner xerath or orianna

you're not going to see support nunu youknow? lane nunu has been trashed a long time ago and you're not going to see azir/kayle bot lane either just because a support/tank gives ap doesn't mean you're going to see an ap bot all you're going to see is kayle played in her respective lane, and azir played in his respective lane

tho, i can't wait for nunu dragon control to be back

https://i.gyazo.com/3bf20d28ce0fea9b9450684ca39f25b0.png

nunu W gives 40% more ap+ morde ult gives him 30% of the ap clone as bonus ap+rabadon gives more ap +Q insane ap ratio

[sg-ahri-2]

51 Comments

PrimaquariusJan 12, 20189 votes

Ziggs bot needs to make a comeback, he has 2 answers to Vayne's mobility

AhristocatsJan 12, 20189 votes

yea sure... jax bot might come back too

kAPa

PrimaquariusJan 12, 201813 votes

You know Ziggs tower killing W wasnt removed right? I dont know how he fell off when he wasnt nerfed much

AhristocatsJan 12, 20187 votes

because people realised that he was terrible bot, he needs too much xp

also because adcs got buffed, but even before that people stopped playing him and only played varus/jhin/mf

SnowplosionJan 12, 201811 votes

It was only meant to counter pick Cait, but people thought it would be great to try in ever damn game. Kinda like MF support.

ThefrostyvikingJan 12, 20182 votes

That and tanks got buffed just a few patches after botrk buffs, that was probably the final nail in the coffin for ziggs botlane.

AP itemization is pretty awful for dealing with tanks on any mage not specialized in doing it x)

DarkeusJan 12, 20181 votes

Guess you didn't see Shiphtur's game with Ziggs bot where he shit on the ADC and then proceeded to take tower at 3:59 FROM A BACK... Not a kill, A BACK. And yes, that was patch 7.24b

AhristocatsJan 12, 20182 votes

yes and anecdotes are proof of balance /s

DarkeusJan 12, 20181 votes

I think you need to watch that video.

I will even link because I know how resistant people are to being wrong.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/213860156

5:26:31

Please tell me what time that tower goes down. Thanks.

That is not anecdote. That is FACT.

AhristocatsJan 12, 20181 votes

do you know what is an anecdote?

it's a SINGULAR event that does not represent how things evolute in general

this ziggs stuff doesn't matter because in my games ziggs inted 0/5 and got destroyed should i say that ziggs sucked only because of my own experience?

PrimaquariusJan 13, 20181 votes

Most people do, so I say no

BarcidJan 12, 201810 votes

So, Prima, to expound on Rubick's short response:

Champions reliant upon their abilities can't function bot well. The reason being they lose experience from being in a duo lane. This in turn makes all of their abilities weaker by rather large numbers, makes their cooldowns longer, the list goes on. Unless the ability-based champion gets fed to oblivion and makes up for the levels they've lost, they will inevitably fall off.

ADC's tend to conversely be your champions that don't really need their abilities (or more accurately all of them) in order to do their job - at most, their job is front-ended into one specific ability and their other two abilities tend to be some kind of utility to help themselves so they're not completely helpless should they be caught alone. Since all they ever lose in this way are flat stats, they're the class that can easily make up for their weaknesses with items, making them the most appropriate to be paired in bot. And you have to have a pair of players some where in the game because there are only 4 lanes total and there are 5 players on each team.

So Ziggs falling out of bot was an inevitability. While it's not like he was the worst out there or even particularly awful, getting insanely fed is fallible - it's hit or miss. It can happen one game and then another you can be shut down to oblivion.

You then have to double this with the fact that right now, AP itemization is far, far, far more expensive than AD itemization (besides Morello), meaning a Ziggs bot would be shafted both out of his ability scaling and now he's not even scaling his items as hard as a traditional AD carry. Ziggs just wouldn't work in the current game climate unless he flat out snowballed beyond comprehension, and that would certainly be a feat of luck and just crazy happenstance.

MordepoolJan 12, 20183 votes

{quoted}

?

You know Ziggs tower killing W wasnt removed right? I dont know how he fell off when he wasnt nerfed much

He wasn't nerfed Marksmen were insanely buffed shortly after

JJI744Jan 12, 20182 votes

As memory serves, Varus became popular again, and he kinda destroyed Ziggs bot. Also I think AD items in general got buffs.

My Waifu VanillaJan 12, 20182 votes

Runs out of mana and doesn't spike as early since he's spending gold on dring+lost chapter while the adc has relic+bf. Also Ziggs would get run down by Vayne who can all in with imputiny post 6 since Ziggs is poke reliant early on.

Void Baboon RFJan 12, 20188 votes

You're gonna pick Ziggs into Vayne

let me lmao at you

lmao

DarkeusJan 12, 20181 votes

Shiphtur beat Xayah with Ziggs bot and took their tower at 3:59 in the game so yeah. All the enemy ADC has to do is back and they lost tower. And that is EXACTLY what happened in Shiphtur's case too.

ThefrostyvikingJan 12, 20183 votes

Ziggs would get run over by the overheal page that is currently popular for marksmen and skimishers and a few juggernauts.

They heal through poke easily and are barely affected at all.

That NA streamer, soloRenektonOnly or what he was called, made a real show of running it on different toplaners to great success x)

DarkeusJan 12, 20181 votes

Until you see that Ziggs can drop a tower these days in less than 4 minutes into that game.

And yes, it has been done. Check out Shiphtur's stream from a week or two ago and weep.

Oh god.... Now I am seeing a nightmare of snowballing...

Nunu + Ziggs

My Waifu VanillaJan 12, 20181 votes

Snowballing for the enemy team. Nunu does literally nothing in lane besides turn into a punching bag for the enemy bot lane. He isn't like Leona or Ali who can actually punish the enemy for auto attacking so takes hits every second he is in lane. What's he going to do? Rank 1 snowball? Oh nooooooo.

DarkeusJan 12, 20181 votes

Who said anything about Support Nunu??

LMAO! I am just talking about who giving AP power to with his new steroid on PBE might benefit greatly.

Lol. I am talking team comps not bot lane. Ziggs is a mid. But just saying with boost, it could drop towers even faster.

PrimaquariusJan 13, 20181 votes

Truth, I cant run Nunu in any role without getting run over. And Im good with mages

EedatJan 12, 20188 votes

I thought Riot was against handing out invisible stat sticks. It appears I'm wrong

AwesomeGuyDjJan 12, 20182 votes

Blood boil has an effect that appears on your champion. if you ever look at nunu he gets red glowing hands.

Craft ZeppelinJan 12, 20188 votes

Even if this change comes out, Nunu with predator running down mid with ghost is definitely the only Nunus we see in games.

The master race.

ThePikolJan 12, 20187 votes

Nunu + Veigar

Mysticman89Jan 12, 20184 votes

I dunno, support nunu isn't total trash in some match ups.

The two that come to mind are as a support to kog/varus, both of which can build rageblade to build up a chunk of AP and make use of nunu's ap boost, while simultaneously having a strong appreciation for the attack speed. (I know varus likes lethality more than on-hit currently, but that's not always the case.)

AhristocatsJan 12, 20183 votes

not at all

the maximum bonus of ap nunu can give is 120

and you need 300 ap for nunu to give you 120 ap (he gives 40% bonus ap capped at 120)

rageblade provides a small amount that it might as well not give ap at all if you want to use W on kog

Mysticman89Jan 12, 20184 votes

It's not a game changer or anything, and I don't expect nunu to be a strong pick, but 50 AP on rageblade itself, plus up to 24 more if it's stacked, so roughly 30 extra AP for 'free'. Nothing crazy, and he's not getting full use out of the potential ap share, but it could make the difference of a few autos, on top of the AS which might be the main goal.

(I also notice it's enough to push kog to 100+ AP, so he'd do an extra 1% max health damage. I don't remember if he benefits from fractional ap there or not though, so not sure if thats a difference of a full 1% or just .3%.)

Meanwhile maybe nunu might take to building some ap himself, for added spice with Q poke. It's not a crazy super steroid, but it's something, so in a duo where both sides are benefiting I could see it making a difference.

Doubt it'll be a strong choice in pro or high elo or anything, but in my endeavors of playing support nunu (mostly for a mastery chest) it didn't feel terrible even in his current state as long as I had an AS reliant adc. With a few love taps along these lines, it might be situationally viable, albeit pretty niche.

Done25Jan 12, 20183 votes

Personally I'm pretty happy how the up to 25% AP on hit ratio on his Q will reward Nunu for having attack speed a bit more. Right now, unless you build a Wit's End, Nunu's auto attacks hit like a wet noodle.

Now that AP is more heavily rewarded on him you might see the a Nunu throw some AP into his build. Such as via Runic Echo's or Protobelt.

Poop JellyJan 12, 20182 votes

I play support nunu here and now and it's fun. Now it's probably even better to give some AP enhancement to mid laners as well. As weird as this might sound, I support but I don't really like support the ADC... entirely. Yeah that's probably bad for competitive plays in ranked but most of my games in normals I have much better time supporting other lanes once laning phase is over.

PennsJan 12, 20182 votes

We get a support for ap champs tho pogchamp

DivewingJan 12, 20182 votes

Champion that is ranged, self peels, deals AoE damage, creates towers, and scales LUDICROUSLY with both attack speed AND AP won't go bot.

But slow, melee, bug-riddled juggernaut WILL go bot cos Dragon control...

I'm all for supporting your main - power to you, kid, but this bias is getting to some pretty obnoxious levels...

ProfDrDeathJan 12, 20185 votes

Morde goes bot because he has some way to compensate for XP sharing. Azir has not, and is one of the most XP-dependent mages out there, so he won't go bot.

DivewingJan 12, 20181 votes

Buddy, I don't care if he does or not, but don't act like you know for certain.

This guy is ragging on people for being optimistic about a change.

Last I checked, time travel was not possible, so neither you, nor Rubick, should know for certain how this could affect the game

Malicious MetalJan 12, 20184 votes

Because Bot lane is a DUO lane and Morde, while being one of the champions with the highest POTENTIAL damage output in the game, is heavily team reliant.

Putting him alongside an ally that can enable him is a lot better than putting a self-sufficient mid laner into a duo laner since most mages are heavily XP reliant. Morde is not.

NemeBroJan 12, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tREWBAEn,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2018-01-12T10:32:54.041+0000)

Because Bot lane is a DUO lane and Morde, while being one of the champions with the highest POTENTIAL damage output in the game, is heavily team reliant.

What potential damage output is that? Unless you are counting ghosting a Vayne as Mordekaiser's potential damage or something, Mordekaiser's DPS with your build is, frankly, not particularly high. It was about as high as a Jax's, IIRC, when I used practice tool to test it at full build (your build, specifically, which is more damage-heavy than Jax's). It was well below any ADC or skirmisher I've tested that I recall.

AhristocatsJan 12, 20183 votes

Mordekaiser doesn't have mana cost Mordekaiser has an XP passive Mordekaiser has the dragon control Mordekaiser bullies adcs harder than azir or kayle Mordekaiser's early game isn't trash like them

"slow melee juggernaut will go bot" yeah because being slow doesn't matter once you have blitz or thresh

DivewingJan 12, 20181 votes

So what you’re saying is that situationally, Morde is a better pick boy.

Ok, so why when people say Azir-Nunu COULD be played bot, you have to show up to shit all over it?

PurpleKingCrazyJan 12, 20182 votes

Taliyah Nunu

If you know what I meeeeeean. :}

Meep ManJan 12, 20181 votes

Why is Lane Nunu trash again though?

AhristocatsJan 12, 20184 votes

because a long time ago riot forced him in the jungle by reducing his Q sustain by a half and gave him bonus effects when he eats monsters

PrimaquariusJan 12, 20182 votes

His ultimate has no real use despite doing massive damage

Done25Jan 12, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Why is Lane Nunu trash again though?

Blood Boil used to give a lot more stats and his Q used to heal for a lot more. So he was quite a bit harder to kick out of top lane.

My Waifu VanillaJan 12, 20181 votes

Because nunu can't punish the enemy adc+support from auto attacking him to death. The reason you can't auto attack Leona of thresh to death in lane is because they can punish you. What does Nunu do? Throw a negative damage rank 1 snowball? Don't twist my arm so much man.

Against any competent bot lane Nunu is getting halved level 1 and then all-inned level 2 (Which the enemy team IS getting first) because there is nothing Nunu can do about it.