Can we please get an explanation for why mages are getting nerfed so hard next season?

Lafouboy·11/5/2015, 3:07:51 AM·48 votes·4,230 views

I really am baffled for the decision behind this choice. Most staple AP items are going up in price for seemingly no adequate reason, while MR is getting cheaper and ADC items are being created to deal with Mages' burst damage (like Death's Dance) and CC (Merc Scimitar getting a buff) with reasonable prices attached to them (less costly builds on champs that are purposely fed/farm more than most other positions).

The decisions made, with no explanation for "why", really does get me confused. If we could only get an explanation, that would be lovely. It feels as if you are simply nerfing mages for the sake of change/allowing marksmen be more noticeably powerful compared to other champs for the "Marksman Update" coming in Season 6.

So please, anyone from Riot, an explanation for the reasoning behind these decisions would be lovely.

50 Comments

JavelinJoe11/5/2015, 3:17:37 AM12 votes

I kinda feel the same way, and i started to notice their declining usefulness in the 5.18 patch. Veigar is played now (basically the go to mid for many) because he can scale high enough to be useful and still be able to burst enemies, but now he might not be able to be as effective in the next season. However if things continue as is, they will receive major buffs after two more "role" updates.

Think about it: Jungle Update -> AP/Mid focused Update -> Armor Update and Juggernaut Update (top lane basically) -> Marksmen Update. All that is left is Support and then the cycle repeats. So give it about 5 or so months once the Marsmen update comes out and the new season begins.

Stellafreyja11/5/2015, 5:43:59 AM10 votes

The price changes have to do with the changes to gold generation. I believe ambient gold (gold you make per second) was increased from 19 per 10 seconds to 20.4 per 10. They're also changing the way bounties work, providing global gold for a team when a shut down is acquired. They most likely upped the prices to account for these changes.

However, we're gonna need to see if the changes we too much when everything goes live.

LadyRenly11/5/2015, 3:40:50 AM7 votes

because a way to push for a certain role to be "meta" is to nerf everything else

CISTERN11/5/2015, 7:14:39 AM6 votes

Because with the new adc meta people cant buy 2 mr items

Pupel11/5/2015, 3:17:25 AM5 votes

because there is so much counterplay when any of these guys jumps on you as a ADC Annie Leblanc Kassadin Katarina

The Whamboozler11/5/2015, 5:46:48 AM5 votes

You had the reason right. Because many mages can burst down an adc and the next patch is the adc patch, so they get to be special snowflakes and all their enemies have to wear kid gloves for a while to let them feel like top dog.

Kitten of Evil11/5/2015, 4:32:16 PM5 votes

The item I'm most worried about is Death's Dance. 20% of damage taken applied as bleed is kind of ridiculous, especially since that same item gives lifesteal (not just on AAs but also on all phys dmg) so the ADC won't care about the bleed. It may as well read "mages deal 20% less damage"

Kamiroo Wolf11/5/2015, 5:09:09 AM4 votes

I just want clarity ;-; I don't care too much about the items and what not

summoner 13

Fusarix11/5/2015, 3:31:38 AM3 votes

I don't think its mages that are getting nerfed. I feel like marksmans are just getting way too large of a buff for them to keep up.

Kuroi8611/5/2015, 8:10:13 PM2 votes

Higher gold generation will relieve a lot of the weight from the price increases. And while ADC are getting more utility, their general AD is going down which will either force them to build more crit centric or for more damage reduction with reduced damage. The biggest winners are junglers and supports who are getting some big gold increases while having their needed gold remain close to what it was before.

Zair Umbras11/5/2015, 6:45:13 AM2 votes

Every final item except for Devourer and Infinity Edge (Which got nerfed) got an increase in price and the only nerf to mages there is right now is 5 armor off of Zhonya's, so... yeeaah....

CatSith11/5/2015, 1:04:19 PM2 votes

They aren't.

Smitemuffin11/6/2015, 2:19:49 PM2 votes

I keep seeing people say "mage items got buffed a few patches ago"

No. They got stats reshuffled, but ultimately stayed about the same:

Ludens and Zhonyas both lost 20 AP, Void Staff gained only 10. So mages like Lux, Xerath, Ziggs, Orianna who bought the 120 items and morello to get max AP lost about 40 accounting for death cap. That's about 100-110 off their full combo overall (which is a substantial nerf, note Riot gave Vayne -3 AD and said 'job well done')

What they buffed were lower AP and stacking AP items: item 3003 item 3027 (nerfed hp though) item 3151 etc.

planters11/6/2015, 3:50:19 AM1 votes

to sum it up riot is adjusting gold efficiency across the board and mages have the best efficiency. On the up side they also increased AP damage to turrets so Teemo bot lane is a bit better and if you look at it they are removing some raw damage in the form of AD and AS to compensate for more diversity in build path for ADCs. this will give them a lot less raw burst but significantly higher sustained damaged since the diverse build path features more lifesteal and crit. Before everyone jumps on the "but X wagon" let me state we are probably going to see marksman and Yasuo be terrifyingly OP for the next couple months but eventually the game will be in a better place overall because ADCs will have more than 1 build path with 2 legitimate items for each part of their build path similar to mages.

The Yetii Rider11/6/2015, 4:47:39 AM1 votes

I'm fairly certain the reason they want to tone down AP mages is to reduce the effectiveness of poke compositions, because poke comps could basically kill the enemy team from outside their effective range.

Assassins may be low counterplay but they are very short range, and thus the enemy team usually gets to interact with them with proper positioning (Rengar is really the only assassin left who bursts a target down before anyone can land a blow on him)

That's my thinking anyway. With ADCs being the focus this season, Riot wants the whole team within auto range. I mean, imagine if someone like Graves or Quinn had to fight Xerath, Nidalee, Ezreal, Lulu and Kennen. It'd be a disaster.

IAMS4T4N11/6/2015, 9:42:26 PM1 votes

theyve never been bad literally never and many of them get countless buffs (direct and indirect)

S H A Y C 011/5/2015, 9:10:22 PM1 votes

The only mage item change i saw that was blatently over the top, was haunting guise price going up AGAIN! it has to be the least gold efficient ap item in the game by far now, and possibly least gold efficient item period.