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Ranked Solo Queue Is Unfair to Support Mains

Smitemuffin··8 votes·2,530 views

First off: this article is not about me, it's about a friend of mine. I jumped ship on support and became a mid main back in S3.

I have a support main friend currently sitting in Bronze 1 (where he's been for 3 years), but this guy is obviously at least fit for low Platinum. He knows his matchups, he consistently coheres to the role of whatever champion he's playing, he even makes several forays into the enemy jungle to deep ward and sweep. When I coached two Challenger teams in S4, it was still a struggle getting supports to do that.

I feel awful for the guy (I can't queue with him, I'm too high elo) because in Bronze and Silver, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink - it will only drown itself _just to spite you. No matter how well a support plays their role in the Gold Tier and lower, when push comes to shove, you're still just a support. You have baby items, limited gold and probably awful scaling even if you had items.

Personally, I'd like to see something to help supports matter more to the outcome of a game. Make the support-only items scale useful stats over 10-30 minutes spent not gaining CS, or better GP-10 on items. Every time supports have items strong enough that people actually fight over having the role versus not having it, they get nerfed into the ground.

end rant

48 Comments

BastionKross11 votes

you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink - it will only drown itself just to spite you.

I feel like this should be one of Riot's loading screen hints.

Unlucky Number73 votes

the dynamic ranked should fix this problem.

Commando Yi2 votes

if i can carry a game as support outdamaging everyone on the team i don't want to hear excuses about supports being stuck well below their skill level

it's just an excuse -_-

Smitemuffin1 votes

Considering you're a 65-65 win/loss MasterYi only player with 4 Ashe games as your next-highest played with THREE Annie games, I honestly don't see how you've got any factual basis for a statement like that.

I mean, you don't even have a positive win rate on the champ you've played in 93.85% of your games. And that's neverminding the fact that you only average 12 CS less on Annie per game than on Ashe and both double your farm score on your main. So you're clearly a jungler, and I question if you've even supporterd 10 games this season. Diamond or not, your statement is quite...liberal with facts :/

Commando Yi1 votes

{quoted}

Considering you're a 65-65 win/loss MasterYi only player with 4 Ashe games as your next-highest played with THREE Annie games, I honestly don't see how you've got any factual basis for a statement like that.

I mean, you don't even have a positive win rate on the champ you've played in 93.85% of your games. And that's neverminding the fact that you only average 12 CS less on Annie per game than on Ashe and both double your farm score on your main. So you're clearly a jungler, and I question if you've even supporterd 10 games this season. Diamond or not, your statement is quite...liberal with facts :/

you must be new around here https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=ctrl+ult+tibbers

Smitemuffin1 votes

So you spam Annie only where you're still averaging 156.8 cs a game (practically equal to your next-most-played Jax at 158.6 ). Your second-frequency support is Janna at 2 games. Judging by your CS disparity between some games and others, you also appear to be almost exclusively playing it in solo lanes. I also gather that by the fact that you've bought 0 sightstones and only upgraded 4 trinkets in the past month - further verifying the fact that you don't actually support.

Commando Yi2 votes

{quoted}

you are actually bring up my secondary champions played on an account called "Ctrl Ult Tibbers"

Are you really not able to figure out the obvious here?

Also there is a sight stone staring you in the face in my last loss 3 weeks ago

I don't care to dig through my match history to find all the games i've carried as support annie but the amount of emphasis you're placing on cs in solo queue kind of shows you don't know anywhere as much about the game as you claim to and you're a poor judge of individual player skill which is why you think your bronze friend has plat level supporting skills

Smitemuffin1 votes

"I haven't lost [ranked] in 3 weeks"

Played 3 games since and claims that CS doesn't matter in ranked. Man, we got ourselves a badass over here!

Commando Yi1 votes

{quoted}

"I haven't lost [ranked] in 3 weeks"

Played 3 games since and claims that CS doesn't matter in ranked. Man, we got ourselves a badass over here!

you can't even quote the things i've written properly... i have some serious doubts about your "coaching" capabilities

Smitemuffin1 votes

hands you a shovel

If you're going to dig yourself into any deeper levels of nonsense, I feel personally obligated to ensure you at least have the proper tool for the job :D

I mean, between citing a Yi-only account, then that you only build one sightstone in a month of solo queue, then showing me that you've got a support pool too shallow to bathe a gnat, post all these alt accounts to back up a point before implying they're irrelevant when I bring up the information in them, then trying to claim that farming doesn't matter in ranked, you've truly done all the hard work. I mean, you say something, prove yourself wrong in the same attempt, then jump to another point and do it again. I'm really starting to think you're Donald Trump...

Commando Yi1 votes

{quoted}

hands you a shovel

If you're going to dig yourself into any deeper levels of nonsense, I feel personally obligated to ensure you at least have the proper tool for the job :D

I mean, between citing a Yi-only account, then that you only build one sightstone in a month of solo queue, then showing me that you've got a support pool too shallow to bathe a gnat, post all these alt accounts to back up a point before implying they're irrelevant when I bring up the information in them, then trying to claim that farming doesn't matter in ranked, you've truly done all the hard work. I mean, you say something, prove yourself wrong in the same attempt, then jump to another point and do it again. I'm really starting to think you're Donald Trump...

look, i really don't care at this point

the absurdity of claming a bronze support main is playing at a plat level speaks for itself

no doubt you're challenger level material held back in gold by your teammates

if you want to bury yourself in excuses and retort with irrelevant stats and demonstratably false claims that just further destroys your credibility - on top of your inability to defend your absurd premise that a support cannot carry out of bronze, that is your problem - not mine

oh, and for the record deep warding does not make you a plat level support

cy out

Zorae422 votes

Tell them to play supports that can potentially carry: Annie, Morg, Lux, or even Vel'Koz or Brand.

Sona is a toss up. Low elos won't know enough to focus her down and she can snowball really hard. But if she's at all behind (due to lane partner being terrible and feeding), then you're pretty worthless.

The new season will give them a chance to redo their placements and possibly get to skip all those absolutely awful elos, and the new promos mean that'll be easier to get out of really bad tiers.

Commando Yi2 votes

i'm just gonna leave this here http://i.imgur.com/6H5iXkP.jpg

Smitemuffin1 votes

LOL. You're a Diamond 5 player trying to claim "I can carry as a support!" while smurfing a game on a Silver 2 account with 1360 MMR. And this screenshot was from so long ago that it's not even in your match history.

This is like you're Cartman in that episode of South Park where you convinced yourself you single-handedly slayed a dragon while writing the Gay Fish joke

Commando Yi1 votes

{quoted}

LOL. You're a Diamond 5 player trying to claim "I can carry as a support!" while smurfing a game on a Silver 2 account with 1360 MMR. And this screenshot was from so long ago that it's not even in your match history.

This is like you're Cartman in that episode of South Park where you convinced yourself you single-handedly slayed a dragon while writing the Gay Fish joke

i don't have any silver 2 accounts... are you blind? that's just a normals game where i'm having fun with support brand

and for the record and i'm a d1 jungler from season 4

"d5" is a little insulting

Smitemuffin1 votes

Not according to the LoL King of that summoner name. Must be somebody ELSE with that exact same name

Commando Yi1 votes

{quoted}

Not according to the LoL King of that summoner name. Must be somebody ELSE with that exact same name

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=man+dr0p

Smitemuffin1 votes

Ha! It really IS somebody else with the same name! It's a shame it was so long ago that it's not in your history. I'm curious whether you wound up with an obscene number of deaths like you do with Annie

Lajneen2 votes

If you main Support it means that you've accepted the fact that you're not skilled enough to carry yourself and let your teammates decide the fate of the game. Tell your friend to pray harder to RNGesus or learn to play a real role.

Smitemuffin1 votes

That's...really far off the mark

Lajneen2 votes

Nope, this is the harsh truth that Support mains don't want to hear.

Caytheles3 votes

Hope you know that supports can decide the fate of the game right? I can carry and play in Any role Top, mid, adc, jg, but i choose support because there is a certain art to it. You cant just bu a sightstone and say "I'm helping" there are so many things that need to be thought about. Besides. All of those assists are most likely from utility spells and CC. which means you wouldnt get half of your teams kills if it werent for the Support.

People who say "Support mains just like to get carried" are pretty ignorant. Without us you wouldnt have the Tools to do your carrying.

Lajneen1 votes

http://i.imgur.com/cW5hcHv.png[/img]

AndyChrono2 votes

{quoted}

I have a support main friend currently sitting in Bronze 1 (where he's been for 3 years), but this guy is obviously at least fit for low Platinum. He knows his matchups, he consistently coheres to the role of whatever champion he's playing, he even makes several forays into the enemy jungle to deep ward and sweep. When I coached two Challenger teams in S4, it was still a struggle getting supports to do that.

I feel awful for the guy (I can't queue with him, I'm too high elo) because in Bronze and Silver, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink - it will only drown itself _just to spite you. No matter how well a support plays their role in the Gold Tier and lower, when push comes to shove, you're still just a support. You have baby items, limited gold and probably awful scaling even if you had items.

Personally, I'd like to see something to help supports matter more to the outcome of a game. Make the support-only items scale useful stats over 10-30 minutes spent not gaining CS, or better GP-10 on items. Every time supports have items strong enough that people actually fight over having the role versus not having it, they get nerfed into the ground.

end rant

Sounds like your friend probably has good game sense/game knowledge but is lacking in mechanics. A friend of mine that mains support is exactly the opposite (crappy game knowledge but great mechanics) and got to plat 4 last season (he's currently in his plat 5 promos this season). The things that you mention like proper warding, knowing matchups ,etc. are great qualities in a support. But like you say, teammates in Bronze just aren't good enough to properly capitalize. Because of this, it's far more important at lower ELO's to simply have good mechanics and carry that way.

Having to control vision as a team, manage waves as a team, rotate as a team, etc. is simply too much for the people in Bronze to handle. As a support in lower ELO, you need to make things as simple as possible for your teammates. To put it another way, good wards might win you the game in Bronze if your teammates know what to do with the vision advantage. On the other hand, everyone from Faker down to Wood 5 knows what to do if you land a Blitz hook.

Archon X1 votes

what's his name so I can look at his recent games

Smitemuffin1 votes

I'm a little hesitant to post somebody else's summoner. It'd be my fault if he got trolled

Archon X1 votes

sorry no, a support who knows how to build correctly will not be in bronze

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Yup. And heaven forbid you choose a support who can actually carry (Brand, Lux, Vel'Koz). No, the team often demands a tanky support, which means you're stuck as Braum or Thresh or Leona trying to force-feed an ADC who may or may not cooperate.

Commando Yi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tR1txYYX,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-11-04T17:06:57.837+0000)

Yup. And heaven forbid you choose a support who can actually carry (Brand, Lux, Vel'Koz). No, the team often demands a tanky support, which means you're stuck as Braum or Thresh or Leona trying to force-feed an ADC who may or may not cooperate.

i say screw the team, i've got a game to carry :p

Kitten of Evil1 votes

YOLO Queue!

Smitemuffin1 votes

Says the Diamond 5 on a Silver 2 smurf...

BattleBoar1 votes

Well just like some mage make great supports(like the one you listed ) There a few fighter and tanks that can support and still carry. That why people like Tahm Kench so much. He easy a tank support but do to his R pass he can easy carry if need be.

Smitemuffin1 votes

But alot of those champions (Leona or Alistar being great examples) can only carry if you're already ahead or in a superior position than the other team. But in Gold (where I sit) and down, when people feed in lane, they feed 5 or 6 kills in the large majority of games. The problem with so many of these champs is that by the time those plays can happen, your team has very frequently already fed the other team over your head.

Hell, in those ranks and down, it's hard enough just warding river without the ADC getting killed while trying to greed a minion

Sukishoo1 votes

Nope. I'm a support main and I made it to gold last season.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

I've reached gold multiple times last 3 seasons playing support, and climbed through gold to Plat last season playing Nami, so... no, any "Plat" support wouldn't be "stuck" in Bronze. My new duo/best friend has also mained support for 3 seasons and was gold and plat for 3 seasons as well.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

This is why the new ranked there, to hopefully solve that problem. The support role is the epitome of teamwork.

It's not just bronze 1, but good support mains below plat all have the similar kind of struggle, like me. I remember getting stuck in bronze for a while until a friend of mine decided to duo with me and thats how I got to gold 5.

No matter how hard they are buffed, supports can't really singlehandedly win games if their entire team is too stupid (don't engage or don't follow up both are just as bad), and in lower elos it's usually like that. That's just the nature of roles that NEED team participation, which stresses the point of the TEAM GAME.

Best solution is tell him to find a reliable duo, or else he can't really climb effectively as a support MAIN. SoloQ in lower elos is the equivalent of gambling, which is why no one likes support.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Kinda says something about the role, doesn't it? Mostly, I just hope Riot's newfound fixation on tinkering with exp will help bring it into line.

But to be fair, I'm also waiting on Ao Shin. Where did that get me?

TendajiX1 votes

You need a duo or higher skill than your elo to climb as a support main. I climbed out bronze with thresh and zyra very fast with a combination of duo's and higher skill. Ward WARD Ward WARD Ward WARD ward WARD. Nobody wards so YOU handle it. Place like 40 a game.

LadyRenly1 votes

That's why in low elo it's better to not play the likes of Soraka and Janna and hop on the Annie bandwagon.

ADC isn't csing or tradinig well? Step aside, I'm now the carry.

Utility Backline1 votes

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=soraka+heal+clar

No flash, no offensive summoner spells, and I bought a mejais in nearly every solo queue match. Diamond 3.

/ thread

Smitemuffin1 votes

That's great and all...for a 1-trick pony. You've got almost 10 times as many Soraka games as your next most played (Bard, at an abysmal win rate of 36% in 72 games). Hell, you only have 2 supports in your top 5 support champs that are positive win rates. That's not exactly a model for other people to go by. Most people aren't going to put 707 games on just one champ. And your solo queue win rate is barely over half at a whopping 51.48%. That's low enough that which matches you win or lose can determine if rank goes up or down. Not much of a case for why the bulk of support players have trouble climbing

Utility Backline1 votes

{quoted}

That's great and all...for a 1-trick pony. You've got almost 10 times as many Soraka games as your next most played (Bard, at an abysmal win rate of 36% in 72 games). Hell, you only have 2 supports in your top 5 support champs that are positive win rates. That's not exactly a model for other people to go by. Most people aren't going to put 707 games on just one champ. And your solo queue win rate is barely over half at a whopping 51.48%. That's low enough that which matches you win or lose can determine if rank goes up or down. Not much of a case for why the bulk of support players have trouble climbing

55% winrate on a single champion at 700+ games. This is a Soraka only account climb to diamond+ (many players use smurfs to do something fun like this every season). 1 Trick pony's comprise the majority of top tier for a reason, most players are 1 trick ponies. My bard games are all from when bard was released, because that's the best place to practice a new champ, smurf accounts are great for that, and great for hiding your own stats. Quite obvious you're using an account with zero support games to hide the fact this entire thread is about you, and you likely have stats you're ashamed about.

Solo queue rates always, regardless of where you are at in elo, drop to 50% after x amount of games because you eventually hit your ceiling/skill level and no longer climb or fall. Look at every player with over 500 games (most of the times less). 100% guaranteed your main account, the support account that has obviously made you frustrated in your inability to climb yourself out as a support main, is more than likely at over below 50% if you have over 150 games.

It's hard to start a topic and debate things when you don't put your account up for the rest of us to help you. But then again I don't think that was your intention in the first place. You wanted to rant, its baseless, as proven by the many top tier support mains that are master+, and therefore does not hold up. So I have to go off of smitemuffin... main champ Viktor and you have a lower win rate on viktor than I have in 700 games on Soraka... Not exactly brag worthy in the slightest friend.

thread remains closed

Smitemuffin1 votes

Sure is. And look how much I actually play ranked in solo. I rather enjoy actually playing the game, so I tend not to play ranked much: there's just way more trolling, feeding and RQs. Even when I do ranked, it's a pretty laid back affair (hence the large number of blind-pick Viktor games)

Quietscream1 votes

Support is pretty good in solo Q.... You have the play making ability to change any lane if your ADC does not fit the job.

FooDang1 votes

No. Just because he can ward well doesnt mean he can make plays. Play makers is what wins games and if your friend can't get out bronze there is a good reason for it.

I have a friend that is a support main. This season started as B5 now he's S3 so I call BS on the "Fit for low Plat" comment.

btw my friend still kinda sucks at support imo so what does that tell you about your friend?

Edit: I just wanted to add, I have another friend thats B1 and he's straight garbage at this game.

Sasogwa1 votes

When I coached two Challenger teams

Tell me more

Smitemuffin1 votes

I had two of them that I coached remotely in EUW during S4 while I was between jobs. The org I was with never really got off the ground though (team Hot & Spicy). Didn't really have much funding and couldn't provide players a suitable contract.

One was Swedish, all of them were schoolmates, two were brothers. They were too young to go pro, but we played in the Black Monster Cup in spring (lost to UoL). That was also the time when I finally understood the joke behind how Swedish Chef talks in The Muppets ._.

The other was (mostly) German. I had Soren from CW, but he only made one day of practice before he left (he had an odd work schedule so he was asleep during our practices most of the time). Then I got ForeIIenlord, the former LCS mid from Team Alternate. That team was 9th in Challenger, but dropped on the last day before the Challenger Series deadline.

It's actually really fun to do. Especially for a guy like me: as an engineer I love the numbers, but my fingers just weren't made for high elo.

I also got interviewed this past spring to be Head Coach of Team Dignitas midway through the split. I was in the same round of interviews as Rico (the guy who just retired).

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