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Riot, Stop Giving Every Champ The Same Ult

Smitemuffin··132 votes·6,687 views

It was cool the first time with Nocturne, Mantheon and Twisted Fate having their own slightly-different long diving abilities.

It was kinda cool when you added Tahm's tag-team out (even though hardly anyone uses it) and Ekko'e rewind (even though it's most fun to watch a soulless tank Elko mistake 4 seconds for 3.5 seconds on a teleport play)

Then Ao Shin and his cross-map cruise control.

And THEN you added Taliyah it was like "Okay, this is kinda getting old now, but whatever. I'm sure this is the last one with the same ultimate which also mostly mimics an existing summoner spell."

Ha. Boy was I wrong. Now Re-Rework Ryze has his short-range groupie port. Please tell me this is the last time you re-hash the same ultimate, because all of your last 8 champs, 4 had minor tweaks of the same global travel spell and all but Illaoi has had SOME form of semi-global. Now we're adding Ryze to it. What's next? Is Yorick's ult gonna warp him to a dead ally? Its getting rather silly now...

121 Comments

Wonko The Sane67 votes

Nocturne: A single target, assassination style long range dash with an added global blind, adding to the paranoia feel. Mantheon: A slow channeling, high-damage AOE cross-map ability. Twisted Fate: A global reveal that also allows him to teleport, allowing for instantaneous roaming. Tahm: A mid-range reposition for himself and ONE teammate, meant for chasing. Ekko: A delayed high damage burst ability meant to encourage pre-planning and intelligent play. Aurelion Sol: A long range, slow moving dash meant to be a roaming synergy with his q, easily cancelable. Taliyah: A long range dash that creates a long-lasting section of immovable terrain, meant to zone control fights. Ryze: A short range reposition teleport meant to create unique and game swinging plays in teamfights, repositioning carries and tanks as needed. Teleport: A summoner spell requiring a unit to teleport to, meant to provide cross-map pressure to any champion on a sizeable cooldown.

Calling all of these abilities basically the same shows that you don't understand how each of them is designed to work. Mobility abilities are some of the most fun and offer some of the most creative plays in the game, and Riot is doing well at making each of these stand out in their own way.

Popppyseed4 votes

I dont think theres a problem with high mobility abilities but OP sounds like he dosent like the abundance of it.

dapositiveviking3 votes

why did u and the OP both ignore rek'sai

Voidrey2 votes

yeah I think that's weird too

A Liberal7 votes

Yeah, im not sure why OP even included Taliyah, Pantheon, or Aurelion sol in there.

Really the only teleport abilities that have too much overlap are Tahm Kench and Ryze, all of the other ones have way more use beyond moving someone, and actually are rarely used to get from place to place (ex: If I am ulting as Pantheon, it's probably on an enemy, not just because)

LuxannaVeritas3 votes

And it works with Tahm Kench and Ryze because the champions themselves have different functions in a game.

If Tahm Kench's ult was on a mage, or if Ryze's ult was on a tank, I would see the point of, at least, that part of the original post.

I'm pretty sure OP included Taliyah, Pantheon, and Aurelion because they have skills that let you move across a large portion of the map. Still, the fact remains that they have different functions in the game.

Woook3r50 votes

the group port is a nice variation and is very useful.

fluxanna10 votes

  1. Everything is a variation, that's the point of creating new champions and reworks apparently.

  2. Well they wouldn't have given him a useless one would they?

Oh wait he's going to be useless once people start permabanning him for the next 8 patches from Bronze through LCS, g'job riot

Elikain13 votes

Oh wait he's going to be useless once people start permabanning him for the next 8 patches from Bronze through LCS, g'job riot

Well, that's a weak argument.

ModCaptainMårvelous27 votes

Oh yeah I missed their old ults that were all super unique.

Like "Buff all your normal stats" Mode ( Aatrox MasterYi Vayne Renekton Nasus Shyvana Riven ) Or "Giant AoE CC attack" (Leona Amumu Sejuani Hecarim Evelynn Annie Poppy ) I especially love "Point-and-click fuck your day up" (Vi Skarner Nautilus LeeSin JarvanIV )

Seriously, if we're going to complain about everything being the same and not accounting for the differences at all then we might as well just play one-for-all every single game because only a handful, if any, champs are truly boasting unique ults.

Kazhou5 votes

forgot malzahar on point-and-click fuck your day up section ;)

Quort3 votes

I hope to be as sassy as you one day. :O

Himbeekee2 votes

I don't think Aatrox belongs on that list. His ult is so lackluster compared to the rest:

Yi- immune to slows, attack speed, movement speed, and resets

Vayne - invisibility, more AD, tripled passive speed

Renekton and Nasus - HP, attack range, passive fury gain/passive damage

Shyvana - displacement, damage, empowered skills, no CD, attack range

Riven - attack range, more AD, empowered skill ranges, and an execute

Aatrox - aoe damage, attack speed/range

Shits whack lmao

ModCaptainMårvelous3 votes

But it still counts as a self-buff. It's not about the quality of the buff it's about the buff itself.

morris14 votes

Aatrox in general is lackluster.

Only Play Darius17 votes

Why can't we just have good old fat damage ults? Like Ziggs, Jinx, Lux, Illaoi etc.? Why must every new ult either grant invulnerability/stasis, teleports you somewhere, or have the potential to screw your own teammates? Sometimes you just want to see big numbers, what's wrong with that?

LadyRenly7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=reAlqE4O,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-06-29T00:59:19.188+0000)

Why can't we just have good old fat damage ults? Like Ziggs, Jinx, Lux, Illaoi etc.? Why must every new ult either grant invulnerability/stasis, teleports you somewhere, or have the potential to screw your own teammates? Sometimes you just want to see big numbers, what's wrong with that?

aurelions ult is pure damage and it's mind bogglingly boring

Only Play Darius5 votes

Well he is pretty boring in general.

Ryzing2Diamond3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=reAlqE4O,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-06-29T01:07:39.694+0000)

Well he is pretty boring in general.

That's subjective. Some people like me find Ryze the most fun champion in the game.

GaleWinUnleashed8 votes

He meant Aurelion Sol, I think. I find him to be refreshing because his damage isn't tied to spamming buttons.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

Melledoneus6 votes

Boop.

Hello I am Bird2 votes

Boop.

Melledoneus11 votes

It's easier to balance Ryze that way. They've been using "good old fat damage ults" for Ryze for his previous 3 iterations. It's nearly impossible to balance him if he has NO utility whatsoever.

And I agree with this new ult. Ryze was either "you're melee and you die" or "You outrange me and I dead." It was boring, static, and wholly unsatisfying for both parties. Now at least you have an ult to watch for rather than "here comes Ryze, we're all dead."

Only Play Darius6 votes

I would argue that Ryze's old ult wasn't really fat damage, but more a general "do everything better" ball of stats ult akin to MasterYi Vayne Aatrox Singed Riven that gives them bigger numbers and slight improvements to their abilities for a lengthy period of time but unlike pure damage ults, little decision making when or how to use it other than "oh a teamfight broke out I need to make myself stronger".

It was however completely inappropriate on Ryze due to his 30% CDR and cooldown reduction during his passive giving a skilled Ryze almost 100% uptime on his ultimate making that empowered state the default and he got balanced around that

fluxanna1 votes

[deleted]

Melledoneus3 votes

Wow, because we always think that of Pantheon/TF/Tahm Kench, amirite?

Popppyseed14 votes

s Yorick's ult gonna warp him to a dead ally?

You just made the rework team delete their ult for Yorick

Darkslayer859 votes

They're all different though.

Mantheon does massive damage. Nocturne limits sight. Twisted Fate granted sight. Tahm can bring an ally with him over a long distance. Aurelion Sol flies instead of blinking to the enemy/location. Taliyah creates the great wall of Trump. Ryze has a short range blink for allies which is designed as a flank tool.

Voidrey3 votes

why is everyone here saying Mantheon? isn't it Pantheon? did I miss something?

Theiki Kayle2 votes

You know you're attracted to Mantheon, even as a straight guy. Like, everyone is.

Mantheon and Traditional Trundle make people question their sexuality.

Ryzing2Diamond8 votes

Riot I have a cool, original idea for Yoricks rework! Make his ultimate a mobile, AOE, channel, that teleports every Ghoul and minion in a radius to Yoricks mouse.

Melledoneus20 votes

I read that as Yorick's house.

"HEY, EVERYONE! PARTY AT YORICK'S HOUSE!"

Ðaddy Swain2 votes

It's always a party at Yorick's house.

Llanite8 votes

If they make his ult a CC "Stop giving everyone the same ult Riot" Annie AurelionSolFizz Galio Cassiopeia Gragas

If they make his ult a burst. "Stop giving everyone the same ult Riot" Chogath Katarina LeblancVeigar Fiddlesticks

If they make his ult an execute "Stop giving everyone the same ult Riot" Velkoz Ziggs Lux

There are finite numbers of mechanism they can use to form an ability, they'll run into each other eventually. Your complain is silly.

devdev4634 votes

{quoted}

If they make his ult a CC "Stop giving everyone the same ult Riot" Annie AurelionSolFizz Galio Cassiopeia Gragas

If they make his ult a burst. "Stop giving everyone the same ult Riot" Chogath Katarina LeblancVeigar Fiddlesticks

If they make his ult an execute "Stop giving everyone the same ult Riot" Velkoz Ziggs Lux

There are finite numbers of mechanism they can use to form an ability. Your complain is silly.

The complaint is not silly because the op only means that that has been the general trend lately and it's getting old. Riot already actively prevents something like this in how they release their champions. For example they don't release 5 adcs in a row because while yes the adcs would play differently, they are still adcs and 5 adcs in a row would get annoying. However, when it comes to the mechanics of the champions, riot doesn't seem to follow this same method, often releasing champions with similar mechanics very close to each other. I am completely with the op on this one, and am tired of seeing mobility all the time.

Hinagiku331 votes

Yeah, the complaint seems to be more about Riot's tendency to release a lot of similar things in a short amount of time.

I remember "League of Revive Passives", "League of Three-Hit Passives", "League of Knock-Ups", and more recently "League of Mini Games" just to name a few.

The mechanics are usually fine in general (usually) but get really tedious when it seems that it's been used a lot in a short time. However, this does lead to League's long-standing problem of most champs being out-classed because another champ does their job better. It should be more about how those mechanics interact with each other in the same kit, and how skillfully a player uses those tools, that matters. Not just shoving a few tools that haven't been used relatively recently and calling it a day. Just giving Riot a pass because "Eh, how many different mechanics should we expect anyway?" isn't good for long-term game health.

devdev4631 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=reAlqE4O,comment-id=002500000000,timestamp=2016-06-30T22:56:26.796+0000)

Yeah, the complaint seems to be more about Riot's tendency to release a lot of similar things in a short amount of time.

I remember "League of Revive Passives", "League of Three-Hit Passives", "League of Knock-Ups", and more recently "League of Mini Games" just to name a few.

The mechanics are usually fine in general (usually) but get really tedious when it seems that it's been used a lot in a short time. However, this does lead to League's long-standing problem of most champs being out-classed because another champ does their job better. It should be more about how those mechanics interact with each other in the same kit, and how skillfully a player uses those tools, that matters. Not just shoving a few tools that haven't been used relatively recently and calling it a day. Just giving Riot a pass because "Eh, how many different mechanics should we expect anyway?" isn't good for long-term game health.

To be fair, the champions they put these different mechanics on are pretty much always not the same class of champions, so it shouldn't really have any long term effects, not like how aatrox xhin irelia and jax are all doing the same exact things, just some of them are doing it better. Definitely agree it's getting tedious though.

Dengeden7 votes

Or you can come to terms with the fact that most (probably all, actually) abilities are variations of other abilities. As long as these abilities have different niches, we might as well be content.

Lettow5 votes

It might have already been mentioned, but you forgot Rek'Sai! Shen's ability is kinda unique in the way it shields someone, but is also a high mobility spell.

It's actually pretty easy now to come up with totally viable team comps that allow for constant 5 man ganks bot using only ultimate abilities.

He4rtkiller5 votes

When I look at a champion I like to look at the hole set of 5 abilities instead of just one that is similar (not the same) to some other spells. My first impression of Ryze is that he is very interesting and I can not wait to try him out. And that ult is EPIC!

sir d wreck4 votes

It's like Riot comes up with an idea and then the next 5 champs are going to have that feature just slightly differing. I remember back Aatrox and Zac were released close together, both with almost the same passive, then I remember Yas and his wall followed by Braum and his wall. Then Rek'sai is released with a new tunnel through terrain - so they add Bard with his magical journey through terrain. Then we get Bard ult with invulnerability, so let's makes Kindred's ult do that too, and Taric's rework ult give the same thing but with a twist. Riot comes up with a new mechanic and then milks that for the next few champs. Etc etc. Also, the last year seems like all the champs main focus is to save others from dying.

Szunray4 votes

The majority of ultimates in this game are either aoe cc for starting a fight or "big damage" for finishing one. A third common one is going into some sorta super mode.

Creating terrain, rewinding time, and teamwide teleports are still very novel concepts

Noblewind4 votes

Umm all of those ults are different in significant ways...I don't get it.....

Zedex3 votes

How is it you even have upvotes?

bulldoggamer2 votes

I love that yokick idea. I'll be sure to pass it along to my buddy at rito

Blac Iyc2 votes

invulnerable ults are comin up too Bard Kayle Kindred Lissandra Taric Tryndamere

Itadaki Seieki1 votes

Bard ulti isn't rehashed.

Karbuncle1 votes

aoe immunity so,Kindred,Taric,Granted Bards it's the worst one but it's also the first one of the three

Itadaki Seieki2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inquisitor Karma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=reAlqE4O,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2016-06-29T10:28:18.254+0000)

aoe immunity so,Kindred,Taric,Granted Bards it's the worst one but it's also the first one of the three

AoE Statis; Which means you can't do ANYTHING.

Taric ulti you can do something.

Kindred ulti you can do something.

Bard ulti you just kind of do nothing.

Chatillon2 votes

Bard ult is used to stop the enemy team more times than to help your team directly.

The stasis is used to catch people out, or stop carries in fights, or stall baron. It's not something to keep your team alive, more times than not, but to make picks or gain a number advantage

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