passive reduces damage on isolated Lay Waste because it's treated as a crit. That being said, why doesn't Warlord's Bloodlust work? Either fix the Randuin's bug because every tank in the game buys Randuin's or make it actually a crit. I don't even care which, just pick one
DrCyanide46 votes
and Crit Damage Runes should work on Karthus if works against him. It's literally the exact same logic.
MisterHealYoGirl6 votesI'd be excited if crit damage runes worked on Big K. IE would be sorta meh, since the cost and stats would make it basically worthless on him.
Yosuke Apperu3 votesWhile we're on it though, does anivia E have the same interactions as karthus q when her target is chilled?
MisterHealYoGirl6 votesRanduin's reduces the damage from all spell crits (Soraka's middle Q, Anivia's frosted E, MF's executed Q, the doubled damage you get when Poppy/Vayne/Gnar hits you into a wall). There are also some weird ones that count as critical strikes in the recap, but seem very odd for Randuins' to reduce: Gragas' Q once it hits max strength and all of Gangplank's barrels, regardless of whether they were triggered by a crit. Riot has, however, confirmed that the reduction of damage from ability crits is intended.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesRanduin's reduces the damage from all spell crits (Soraka's middle Q, Anivia's frosted E, MF's executed Q, the doubled damage you get when Poppy/Vayne/Gnar hits you into a wall). There are also some weird ones that count as critical strikes in the recap, but seem very odd for Randuins' to reduce: Gragas' Q once it hits max strength and all of Gangplank's barrels, regardless of whether they were triggered by a crit. Riot has, however, confirmed that the reduction of damage from ability crits is intended.
ok this makes since then, i just wish that Karthus Q wasn't labled as a crit anymore. BUT i guess they do that to reduce data flow and to make things less complex (ironically)
Aeolian Melodies3 votesWhile we're on it though, does anivia E have the same interactions as karthus q when her target is chilled?
Yes.
Myrmiron25 votesI find it disgusting that this is getting downvoted by the way. This is an actually issue with a game that makes countless changes due to things being unclear how they work (see Jax's stun changesfor example). Yet pointing out these flaws gets you hate while spouting memes gets you +150 and are considered "epic wins". And you guys actually wonder why Riot doesn't care about the boards.
Aeolian Melodies20 votesI find it disgusting that this is getting downvoted by the way. This is an actually issue with a game that makes countless changes due to things being unclear how they work (see Jax's stun changesfor example). Yet pointing out these flaws gets you hate while spouting memes gets you +150 and are considered "epic wins". And you guys actually wonder why Riot doesn't care about the boards.
Anivia has the same issue with E on frosted targets.
Quort1 votesIt's just something that isn't a large concern for most people. A small pool of Champions can critically strike with their abilities and even then Randuin's interaction really isn't too noticeable or important to these Champions. How many of them would build things like Infinity Edge or take Warlord's Bloodlust instead of other available choices even if it were changed?
It's more of a minor inconsistency in logic that most players are probably not aware of. Yes, I can see why it sucks and that it's worth looking at, but I can also understand why many people don't care.
Dar Raksada1 votesIt's just something that isn't a large concern for most people. A small pool of Champions can critically strike with their abilities and even then Randuin's interaction really isn't too noticeable or important to these Champions. How many of them would build things like Infinity Edge or take Warlord's Bloodlust instead of other available choices even if it were changed?
It's more of a minor inconsistency in logic that most players are probably not aware of. Yes, I can see why it sucks and that it's worth looking at, but I can also understand why many people don't care.
crit runes could actually be strong on those champions, dealing 10%less damage to enemies is also a setback. 10% is actually a fairly significant amount.
Quort1 votesMy reasoning is that the only ones that you will 10% less crit damage towards are those that buy the items and these are generall tanks or some bruisers. A tank will already block the majority of your damage so, while every bit counts, the amount of damage you're losing compared to their maximum health is negligible. Most Mages like Karthus or Anivia would probably deal the majority of their damage through persistent effects like Defile and Glacial Storm respectively. In my experience Mages are generally more concerned with their zone-control and utility than their damage. Most Mages are unlikely to focus their burst on tanks anyway unless there is no better alternative.
It's just that the only Champion that makes use of spell crits often enough for it to be truly meaningful is Karthus....
Again, it'd be interesting if it was changed but it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I'd rather they just changed Randuins so that it doesn't counteract Magic Damage abilities or if they just recoded those spells to act with a modifier other than crit. It makes more sense to me that way! I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. :)
Aeolian Melodies2 votesMy reasoning is that the only ones that you will 10% less crit damage towards are those that buy the items and these are generall tanks or some bruisers. A tank will already block the majority of your damage so, while every bit counts, the amount of damage you're losing compared to their maximum health is negligible. Most Mages like Karthus or Anivia would probably deal the majority of their damage through persistent effects like Defile and Glacial Storm respectively. In my experience Mages are generally more concerned with their zone-control and utility than their damage. Most Mages are unlikely to focus their burst on tanks anyway unless there is no better alternative.
It's just that the only Champion that makes use of spell crits often enough for it to be truly meaningful is Karthus....
Again, it'd be interesting if it was changed but it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I'd rather they just changed Randuins so that it doesn't counteract Magic Damage abilities or if they just recoded those spells to act with a modifier other than crit. It makes more sense to me that way! I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. :)
Anivia's E is pretty significant.
Just because Randuin's isn't typically built on what should be your priority targets doesn't mean it should act against a class that it really isn't supposed to counter (anti-crit armor item shouldn't be working against mages). It just adds insult to injury that not only is the tank/bruiser sporting a super fat HP bar that will make them tough to chunk, but they ALSO (and without thinking about it) built an item that acts against one of your core mechanic, because Riot can't code worth crap.
Quort2 votesI definitely agree. It is really stupid it works that way. From your arguments I'm assuming you play Anivia more than I do so I will relent and admit you're probably right.
However, like I said, I'd rather nothing crit related affect mage's spells. It just causes too much confusion. Code it as something else entirely... Maybe they could code it like damage amplification under certain circumstances like with Fizz and old Ahri/Deathfire Grasp? :D
Aeolian Melodies1 votesI definitely agree. It is really stupid it works that way. From your arguments I'm assuming you play Anivia more than I do so I will relent and admit you're probably right.
However, like I said, I'd rather nothing crit related affect mage's spells. It just causes too much confusion. Code it as something else entirely... Maybe they could code it like damage amplification under certain circumstances like with Fizz and old Ahri/Deathfire Grasp? :D
I don't play Anivia (or Karthus for that matter), but I dislike the lack of clarity and consistency.
I don't want those skills to be full blown crits either, just code them properly so Randuin's doesn't act against them.
Dar Raksada1 votesMy reasoning is that the only ones that you will 10% less crit damage towards are those that buy the items and these are generall tanks or some bruisers. A tank will already block the majority of your damage so, while every bit counts, the amount of damage you're losing compared to their maximum health is negligible. Most Mages like Karthus or Anivia would probably deal the majority of their damage through persistent effects like Defile and Glacial Storm respectively. In my experience Mages are generally more concerned with their zone-control and utility than their damage. Most Mages are unlikely to focus their burst on tanks anyway unless there is no better alternative.
It's just that the only Champion that makes use of spell crits often enough for it to be truly meaningful is Karthus....
Again, it'd be interesting if it was changed but it just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I'd rather they just changed Randuins so that it doesn't counteract Magic Damage abilities or if they just recoded those spells to act with a modifier other than crit. It makes more sense to me that way! I hope you can understand where I'm coming from. :)
Thing is, aside from what Aeolian said, Randuins is often picked up by people like Fiora & Yasuo as a defensive item, and every bit of damage counts. The health+armor make it a good defensive buy alongside a hexdrinker etc.
Smitemuffin1 votesDon't worry! I'm now sitting at 159 upvotes (a personal record)
Bârd24 votesThey have spoken about this.
They say it is intended that Randiuns reduces spell crits while crit damage runes and such don't work on them.
It's bullshit, but it is not an oversight.
Aeolian Melodies19 votes[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LWKW0Wdg,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-01-10T00:02:33.157+0000)
They have spoken about this.
They say it is intended that Randiuns reduces spell crits while crit damage runes and such don't work on them.
It's bullshit, but it is not an oversight.
That lack of 
though.
"It's a crit when it puts you at a disadvantage because fuck you, and it isn't a crit when it'd be an advantage because fuck you some more".
Hawkefire2 votesI honestly think they are just saying that because they don't want to have to go through the effort to fix their spaghetti code.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesI honestly think they are just saying that because they don't want to have to go through the effort to fix their spaghetti code.
yeah i think the same, but it does in a way reduce processing work (which reduces lag)
Myrmiron17 votesWarlord's Bloodlust: Your critical strikes against enemy champions heal you for 15% of the damage dealt on-hit and grant you 20% attack speed for 4 seconds (2 second cooldown).
It does nowhere specify that the crit must be dealt by an auto attack. I agree with OP. +1
qetzel1 votesNot explicitly, no, but I am yet to hear that a spell does something "on hit". It is normally "when the spell lands".
Retillin5 votesDoesn't Yas' Q crit?
SpongebobIsLife2 votesWell it's said in yasuo's q tooltip that it's treated as a basic attack, so it's different.
Dar Raksada1 votesWell it's said in yasuo's q tooltip that it's treated as a basic attack, so it's different.
How about fiora's q? It's not counted as a spell for dfg.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesDoesn't Yas' Q crit?
but is an AD ability so it makes since that it can crit because Crits deal physical AD
Nekusen17 voteshow you dare imply that an underused underpowered mage like 
should get the free sustain that an op champion used in every single match like 
has....
SHAME ON YOU ! mister.... shame...one...you.
KaisadiIIa3 votesThe Yasuo hate circlejerk is real.
Baron of Bread5 votesAnivia wouldn't mind getting some treatment like that on her E.
I'm not sure if making Warlords work for them would be that beneficial, but they said that they wouldn't change the Randuin's functionality because nobody would build Randuin's to counter Anivia and they assumed nobody would use crit damage runes to increase her damage. With Warlord's it might be a nice pick up if you wanted that extra sustain in lane, since there is no sustain-y keystone outside of the Resolve tree for mages.
LordForrest2 votesHonestly its not a matter of them building to counter her, its the fact that most of the time they are going to pick it up anyways as their armor item, so it hurts her still. The only way to avoid them possibly building it, would be to play as an all magic damage team, which has its own issues.
Baron of Bread2 votesI totally agree with you. I was just saying what Riot's stated reasoning was.
Quort1 votesThe only people buying Randuins are generally going to be tanks and the occasional bruiser. Against beefier targets like that, most of your damage is going to come from other things such as Anivia's Glacial Storm (especially with Liandry's Torment).
I'd say Karthus is the only Mage that actually uses his spell crit frequently enough for Randuins Omen to really hurt him. Even then only one or two targets are likely to have it and he will still function the same.
TyroneWatermelon4 voteswhy would you take warlord's bloodlust on karthus?
Aeolian Melodies59 voteswhy would you take warlord's bloodlust on karthus?
If his Q counted as a crit, maybe.
TyroneWatermelon8 voteswell it gives attack speed which is useless,it has a 2 seconds cooldown which in most fights you going to spam it more when dead,and its worth the size of your genital compared to Deathfire torch and Thunder%%%'s decree
Bârd42 votes15% spell vamp on the single target Q is not a horrible deal.
Best princess EU9 votes[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LWKW0Wdg,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-10T00:02:08.397+0000)
15% spell vamp on the single target Q is not a horrible deal.
then buy wota
Bârd35 voteslemme rephrase that.
15% free spell vamp on a single target Q is not a horrible deal.
Nekusen36 votes[{quoted}](name=The True Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LWKW0Wdg,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-10T00:10:30.786+0000)
lemme rephrase that.
15% free spell vamp on a single target Q is not a horrible deal.
Tell me more
Audiomancy4 votes+1. Miss Fortune's Double Up works similarly on its second hit if it kills something. It isn't increased by but procs Warlord's and is displayed as a Critical Hit. I'm not sure if Randuin's reduces it however.
Aspynn4 votesSame with Anivia! They said it was intentional for her e with frost applied to have it's damaged reduced by randuins, that's really silly.
LordOfTheLeague3 votesRiot has a double standard with Dps champ if they are Ad or Ap
RisenDarkKnight2 votesSame with Annivia E :(
Actually xPeke2 votesThis is the same for Anivia. Why are their "crits" getting reduced by crit resistances, but not benefitting from crit heals?
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesits weird that Lay Waste would be counted as a crit in the first place. Lay Waste is an ability, not an basic attack (and its not an empowered basic attack either). If memory serves, crits only work on basic attacks (and some empowered basic attacks). In this case Lay Waste "acts" like a crit.
The Karthus wiki says "This damage is doubled if the detonation hits only a single target."
so Riot should fix the coding. A Crit deals twice its normal damage (just like how Lay Waste is worded now). BUT crits are meant for basic attacks which means that they deal double AD. Lay Waste is an AP MAGIC ability, thus it deals MD not AD
Karthus wiki info "Lay Waste hitting a single target lists damage as a critical strike both in the damage text in game and in the post-game screen, where the damage from Karthus's most powerful Lay Waste will appear in the post-game's "Largest Critical Strike" section of the graphs. Despite this, Lay Waste can not actually critically strike and, as such, does not scale with Critical Strike Damage even if it hits a single target. It also will not trigger Warlord's Bloodlust."
This is just the way that it is, its not a Physical Damage ability so thus its pointless and it really shouldn't ever be made a crit at all
so what they need to do is change the coding first, it cannot be labeled or coded as a critical strike anymore when it hits one target second, change the damage to something else:
either make it explicitly deal double the magic damage (Ex. dealing damage to one enemy with Lay Waste deals (+ 60% AP ) bonus magic damage to that target this works because instead of 30% of his AP being dealt as MD (on top of its normal MD), it will double the AP, effectively doubling the damage) OR grant Magic Pen (Ex. dealing damage to one enemy with Lay Waste grants 20% magic pen)
it makes more since than making it a crit.
(Edit - ok my wording must have confused some people and made some mad, just so you know I am AGREEING with Smitemuffin) dang what I do? (one more edit to save me?)
Penta Penguin1 votesAt this point, letting "crit mages" benefit from Warlords is just going to lead to either Warlord getting nerfed again, or critical mages being nerfed which is pretty stupid in my opinion
Aeolian Melodies4 votesAt this point, letting "crit mages" benefit from Warlords is just going to lead to either Warlord getting nerfed again, or critical mages being nerfed which is pretty stupid in my opinion
This isn't was OP is asking for. OP is asking for Riot to make their mind about Karthus' Q and Anivia's E, which is a legitimate complain.
Either they're crits and they are treated as such COMPLETELY, having their damage reduced by Randuin's, healing the caster with Warlord's, and getting enhanced by crit-amplifier (runes and items).
OR they're not crits and they aren't treated as such for ANYTHING.
Not the random "you get the disadvantages for crits but not the advantages" we have atm.
Jari1 votesBasically. It's just not understandable and can confuse some players. They even said it's intentional for Anivia's E, meaning they know it's not consistent and want to keep it like that.
What was it we wanted again? Quality of Life? How about we get some of that here.