On PBE, (I am going by Surrender@20, as i don't have a PBE account yet), smiting anything will give you 10% hp. Which i think is great, becuase it means smiting anything is now like smiting a mini red buff, (as red buff smite currently gives you 20% hp, not 10%) But.. why don't we also get 10% mana?
Spice POWAH12 votesI mean, isn't that what runic echoes is for? Early game mana shouldn't be an issue because of blue buff anyway.
sir d wreck2 votesYou might get blue buff stolen, and blue buff doesn't last nearly long enough to sustain like that when many ad champs just auto attack to clear get the machete jungle camp lifesteal, while spending almost no mana (or sometimes being manaless). I'm hoping this is just an oversight by Riot.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesWhat would you do on live then? The same thing as on PBE now since the only way to get mana back is through smiting blue (5 minute cd) or getting Echoes. They gave the general heal smite not because they removed it from red, but probably to make up for the fact everyone lost krugs/gromp buff. You haven't lost really anything in terms of mana sustain (the only champions with very weak mana sustain are mages and they are keeping all the blues to themselves anyway) so fixing something that isn't necessarily broken isn't something they need to do.
TFBaam5 votesu give blue to mid unless ur super mana hungry like ryze/kathus
IcyPepper13 votesI don't think you give first blue, though...
Maiziea5 votesI usually do when I'm 
or sometimes on 
, other than that no you generally don't give your first blue.
IcyPepper2 votesRek I can see, but energy does regenerate faster with blue...
Then again, I can't play Lee very well so there's that...
Maiziea7 votesIt's faster but Lee gets his energy back from AAing after using abilities, the 10% cdr is nice though and it definitely helps but blue on mid laners like Ryze or Ori is huge early game, they can put so much pressure and then all you have to do as a jungler is get vision around mid lane and they can build themself a lead while I just farm, then around level 6 you just duo gank other lanes after your mid has already gotten a lead for himself. (works best as duo though but it's worked really well for me with randoms too, personally I like jungling to just farm lol)
dominusx1 votesi never give any blue's unless midlaner is 10-0 lul. and why the fuck would you give 1st vlue with Lee? the energy regen makes him clear insanely fast
SuperKappa27111 voteswell that's true
TFBaam1 votesu can get up to 3 blues spawning before u can get runic echoes. depending on ur gold income ofc
SwiftKitten881 votes[{quoted}](name=Spice POWAH,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tLoJNukM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-28T21:39:00.939+0000)
I mean, isn't that what runic echoes is for? Early game mana shouldn't be an issue because of blue buff anyway.
As one of the very few NICE mana using junglers out there, i will ask if my mid wants the blue and give it them them. (this is after i have determined they aren't just going to die and give it to the enemy mid laner)
As good as runic is for keeping up your mana in the jungle, it doesn't really give you enough mana to jungle with AND to gank unless you ALSO have blue buff. Which means if i am nice and gave it to my (competent) mid laner i cant always come gank or countergank when my team needs me to unless i "happen" to have enough mana, sure i can show myself and that might initially get them to back off, but all it takes is for them to glance at my mana bar to see i'm bluffing
10% isnt much.. even the 20% from blue is only 1 or two spells.. but that is usually enough for a gank or countergank, to save my teammate from a gank before i head back into the jungle.
The Yetii Rider1 votesThe change is that camps are spawning 2.5 minutes after you take them. You'll find your jungle empty much more often, then you won't be using so much mana on clears (because you're clearing less) and you'll be able to gank more.
Dehitay1 votesAs one of the very few NICE mana using junglers out there, i will ask if my mid wants the blue and give it them them. (this is after i have determined they aren't just going to die and give it to the enemy mid laner)
Then it's your own fault if you run out of mana. Unless you're manaless, or your mid is in all likeliness to carry hard, you should pretty much get blue on the first run every time.
Also, to my knowledge, there's no difference between the PBE and live servers regarding managing mana in the jungle except for people who smite blue (most junglers don't do that on live though). If managing mana is currently possible, why should it be made easier for a system that doesn't make it harder?
Nameless Voice2 votesI sometimes smite blue for the mana refill when giving it to my mid laner. That way, I get an injection of mana even when I don't get the buff.
It Hertz When IP2 votesSome junglers have mana concerns but get more mileage out of Cinderhulk, like Cho'Gath.
AirKingNeo8 votesWell not 10% mana, maybe like 7% but yeah this was I problem I had thought of when blue smiting for mana doesn't exist.
Sylvant3 votesi main jungle Eve and i often go AP using echo. My main problem never was mana, but health sustain. Even when im not building echo, i manage my mana pretty well. You can get blue buff, extra mana reg from the jungler item etc. When they remove the smite buffs, esp the krugs and gromp, it will hurt our health sustain and clear speed even more. Thats why getting HP from the smite is so important, dont compare it to the Red smite and dont search relation with blue smite cus its off. Its like saying, why not get small krugs buff, raptor buff all together... There is simply a different reasoning. Indeed getting mana from the smite will be nice and prolly needed, but you use wrong arguments. Tbh i never made much use of the blue smite, imo it was the most useless one, even as a mana jungler. I smite it only once at my first clear and its not even of big importance, i can adjust quite well even without that. The blue aura itself is enough for great mana sustain. Once i upgrade runic echo i can absolutely forget for any mana issues.
Nameless Voice5 votesEvelynn is a bad example, since her passive regenerates her mana while stealthed. I rarely run out of mana on her for that reason.
Weathered3 votesThat's why the new river plant gives mana. I've tested it, it works out pretty fair for mana hungry junglers.
doiminat0r36003 votesThey have to have SOME incentive other than gold to back. Otherwise, they could farm uninterrupted until they hit 6k gold then kill the entire enemy team with the 2 complete items they just bought.
Not to mention that 
gives mana regen while in the jungle. No starting item gives HP regen in the jungle, so it's more necessary to have it as only HP.
SwiftKitten881 votesThey have to have SOME incentive other than gold to back. Otherwise, they could farm uninterrupted until they hit 6k gold then kill the entire enemy team with the 2 complete items they just bought.
Not to mention that
gives 8% life steal, which for AD junglers is pretty good health sustain for the price.
AP junglers start which mean unless we use abilities... our clear is going to be a lot slower.
MOST ap junglers have a way to use mana to heal themselves, 
so while the 10% hp from smite helps.. its just overkills becuase we already had heals. bt it means that AD jungler who would normally back due to lack of HP dont change much.
and while i havent played pbe, i feel that AP champs who just lost a 20% mana smite of blue buff (which i almost ALWAYS do before i hand it off to my mid) mean i dont get the same sustain as Ad jungler who can just farm with autos.
and i cant speak for everyone... but being able to smite blue buff and proc 
makes a big difference in a prolonged teamfight.
sure i have enough time to prox on any jungle camp.. but if teamfight takes place near a buff buff being able to walk over there and smite it has won me more teamfights than i would like to admit. becuase it only takes a second to smite blue.. but you can't leave a teamfight long enough to kill the blue buff and not have you team die, (at least in my elo when i am the one carrying)
doiminat0r36001 votes gives 150% base mana regen (which is like 2.5 mana a second) to help out mana hungry champions. If they didn't get HP back for smiting, then they wouldnt be able to clear nearly as effective as AD junglers, thus giving the jungle the meta of ADs because they have sustain for everything. You get this bonus for upgrading your jungle item anyway.TLDR; If you upgrade your jungle item, you get mana regen and life steal on monster hits. Blue buff smite was hardly used properly and has hardly any uses.
Angry Monster2 votescause red buff and blu buffs still exist.
Every camp is getting a smite heal buff.
Your logic does not make sense.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesbut smite getting heal when red buff doesnt make sense with your logic...
Meep Man1 votesBased on what I have seen, Mage Junglers could use a small buff on the PBE since majority (except for Karthus jesus) could use a buff.
Requiemsfire1 votesWell it's not really needed because a good portion of junglers can clear rather well even without the blue buff.
Alleo1 votesNah. I keep all my blue buffs unless my mid is fed or if I don't need them anymore.
Praetor Notorias1 votesI could see some use in a 3%-10% mana regen, either scaling or flat. A 3% mana regen from a smite should be all the buff you really need when you have some mana. The blue buff is a jungler's buff. If they decide to give it up, it's at a sacrifice. I don't think giving them free mana without blue buff/hunter's potion is in the whole tactical decision bundle. Otherwise it's fairly binary without any real thought behind it other than "this is what good people do cause I saw it on youtube"
Almighty1 votesI enjoy playing 
and i vote YES for mana!
Almighty.
doiminat0r36001 votes 
all give 150%+ mana regen. GTFO
TotalJerk1 votesThe Hunter's talisman gives a fuckton of mana regen in the jungle already.
SwiftKitten881 votesThe Hunter's talisman gives a fuckton of mana regen in the jungle already.
the issue isn't "mana regen IN the jungle", the issue is having enough mana to GANK after you jungle
once you leave the jungle to gank gives ZERO mana regen becuase it specifically states IN THE JUNGLE
and only restores mana if it's proc hits a "large monster"
so sure you many have plenty of mana to jungle becuase even if you are at zero mana by the time u reach your next camp with porc giving you 18% more mana. but you are not going be able to GANK anything
TotalJerk1 votesthe issue is having enough mana to GANK after you jungle
The jungle is where the vast majority of a jungler's mana is consumed before they finish their jungle item, and with a talisman they have more mana regen at level one than any laner can even buy before they typically hit six.
SwiftKitten881 votesThe jungle is where the vast majority of a jungler's mana is consumed before they finish their jungle item, and with a talisman they have more mana regen at level one than any laner can even buy before they typically hit six.
laners cs with autos pre-6 for the most part. not abilities. an AP jungler isnt going to just farm the jungle with AUTO.
So yes it gives more mana regen. but what does that have to do with anything...
if you are going to remove all the smite bonuses then remove ALL of them. there is a REASON why smiting blue gave 20% mana and smiting red gave 20% hp.
when you take both of those away and now just give 10% HP thats great for the people who JUST want hp... but it screws over eveyone who smited blue for mana.
there are bunch of junglers where 10% mana is worth a LOT more than 10% hp
it be lìke that1 votesthe 10% mana would be absolutely broken.
People do not seem to realize how fast the meta is going to be, everyone is gonna clear as fast/efficiently as /
can you imagine a world where where everyone can efficiently clear? you thought adcs were every now...would be more than just graves jungling. Hecarim, would never oom when blue buff is down now.
so many problems.
Bladerunner77771 votes
Jungle Lux God1 votesI personally feel like having smite give mana back from smiting jungle monsters is a bit overkill.
Removal of the smite buffs is why we are getting 10% health on the jungle monsters since Krugs gave a lot of sustain via its on-hit stun and Gromp indirectly gave extra sustain via clearing camps faster with its poison damage, and since we are losing those two buffs the 10% health on-smite gives back some of the health lost.
In addition, the Hunter's Talisman passive was usually all that was needed for a lot of champion's clears. I don't play every jungler so some other players might play some junglers that are a bit more mana-intensive than this, but the only times I've ever really have mana issues is when I play some off-meta mage junglers (stuff like jungle Brand/Morgana and that kind of stuff), and the new jungle seems a lot better for those types of champions because many of the camps seem easier to AoE down while the smite buffs didn't always help much. In addition, the mage update provided two amazing mana items that solve mana issues as early as your second clear, so if mana issues are that big of a problem then you can just start at blue, do your first clear with your blue buff, and buy your mana item at the end of your first clear.