Vayne and Riven have no business even thriving in the juggernaut era. The juggernauts (And fiora) are champions that theoretically counter them, and yet they are still as popular as ever. Could it be because they are TOO STRONG!?
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yes. Yes they are.
NemeBro2 votes[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tHlxZaGc,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-12T17:00:19.192+0000)
Vayne and Riven have no business even thriving in the juggernaut era. The juggernauts (And fiora) are champions that theoretically counter them, and yet they are still as popular as ever. Could it be because they are TOO STRONG!?
...
yes. Yes they are.
Vayne shouldn't thrive in a meta filled with immobile health-stackers with limited crowd control?
... whatever you say man, lol.
JohnTheLibrarian2 votesVayne has percent health true damage, she specifically counters the juggernauts. She was going to be strong against them regardless. Whether or not she overpowered outside of that is a different matter. (I think she very well could be) Riven has always been strong, adding new tank items and new tanks against her wasn't going to change that when she can build just as well off the new items as the Juggernauts can. This also doesn't mean she's overpowered. (but she also could be) My point being that whether or not they're overpowered has nothing to do with the juggernauts countering them and them winning because the juggernauts don't counter them.
NemeBro1 votesVayne has percent health true damage, she specifically counters the juggernauts. She was going to be strong against them regardless. Whether or not she overpowered outside of that is a different matter. (I think she very well could be) Riven has always been strong, adding new tank items and new tanks against her wasn't going to change that when she can build just as well off the new items as the Juggernauts can. This also doesn't mean she's overpowered. (but she also could be) My point being that whether or not they're overpowered has nothing to do with the juggernauts countering them and them winning because the juggernauts don't counter them.
Garen certainly counters Riven.
Darius, however, does not. He's actually a lot easier for her than pre-rework.
JohnTheLibrarian1 votesI can see your point, but it might also depend, Garen has a weak early right up until he gets his first item, and Riven is a lane bully like crazy. If she can get 1 or 2 up on him I doubt Garen could do much after. Just my thoughts on the match up. And I assume she's strong against new Darius for the same reason, his early isn't as good now and Riven still wrecks there.
Though when it comes to Garen, I feel he counter's anybody top right now. After his first item, he becomes quite... oppressive... The only person I can think of to specifically counter Garen is Tahm Kench because of his Devours percent health damage XD
But that might just be me and my issues with Garen right now
NemeBro1 votesI can see your point, but it might also depend, Garen has a weak early right up until he gets his first item, and Riven is a lane bully like crazy. If she can get 1 or 2 up on him I doubt Garen could do much after. Just my thoughts on the match up. And I assume she's strong against new Darius for the same reason, his early isn't as good now and Riven still wrecks there.
Though when it comes to Garen, I feel he counter's anybody top right now. After his first item, he becomes quite... oppressive... The only person I can think of to specifically counter Garen is Tahm Kench because of his Devours percent health damage XD
But that might just be me and my issues with Garen right now
Garen has a 1.5 second silence at level 1, and Riven heavily relies on combo'ing her abilities to do damage.
A Garen that starts cloth/5 can silence her the moment she tries to engage and spin to win her, while taking far less damage in return due to his W. Riven will proceed to be chunked by Garen's damage and the minion aggro she has provoked. Garen can then sustain any damage he received back. Riven can't.
Darius also counters Garen, tbh. The bulk of Garen's damage is sustained, which is to say "Garen has to let Darius stack his passive to deal damage to Darius".
JohnTheLibrarian1 votesI can definitely see your point on Garen countering Riven, his passive and her lack of real poke would also turn it in his favor.
Although, I feel the same passive would turn the trade in Garen's favor against Darius too, Darius lacks a lot of poke and the silence could stop Darius from using his full combo after the pull. I guess the big deciding factor would be how well Darius could q to keep his bleed going.
AsphodelNext2 votesAt Riot Games: "Guys, we've got to nerf the juggernauts, they're too OP." "We can't! We're not allowed." "Why?" "Ser Garland won't let us nerf them until we nerf Riven and Vayne!"
FacerollKatarina1 votesRiven is fine lol, Vayne needs some nerfing tho
