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Meddler on a new Zyra passive

Ser Garland··28 votes·3,177 views

"Quote: I think Zyra's passive could be that if she manages kills an opponent with her passive she can either: a. Revert to a targetable flower bud stage and revive after a few seconds like Anivia egg; the health she regains is a fraction (maybe 1/6) of the damage dealt to all enemy champions killed from the passive b. Grow a targetable root to the location of the dead enemy champion and rebirth there the same way as stated from part 'a', if she kills multiple champions with the passive, the root grows to where to last enemy champion killed from her passive To prevent her from being immortal, the revival part of the passive only occurs every once in a while like how Zac/Aatrox has a cooldown timer for their passive, but her original passive still procs whenever she dies Sorry for posting this in the wrong category if I did That's a really cool suggestion, and a change that would fit well with Zyra's playstyle and backstory. We'll do a bit of experimentation with that sort of approach, see if we can get a version that plays well in game without being excessively strong. Can't guarantee we'll end up shipping any changes, definitely worth investigating though."

^^ This!!

I was there in the Champions and Skins concept boards when this was discussed and I couldn't be more psyched to see this being suggested.

basically, if Zyra is killed and her horrible skill shot nuke ends up killing someone, she comes back to life on the corpse of her enemy and doesn't die instead.

This can create some very very interesting plays and adds a unique identity to Zyra while not simply buffing the power and reliability of her passive directly. It is also 100% in theme with her lore.

Mastering her new passive could give her Zed levels of jukes in team fights. Which is just the thing she needs considering she's the most immobile mage in league

27 Comments

Jahsuo Onfroy8 votes

Zyra is Waifu 4 Lifu <3

Kubox6 votes

I really don't like putting so much strength on a something that happens not even once per game. Zyra's passive is way to slow to launch to ever hit anything, not to mention many popular champs have mobility. They'd have to make her passive much better to use for such a change to become useful.

Alternatively, I could see something like "Upon death, Zyra grows a plant next to any nearby enemy that deals true damage and applies on-hit effects" , or instead of right next to the enemies, let the player raise a limited number of plants at target locations, or let him raise as many plants as he wants but only 2 can be up at any time. A good player and team could both work together so that the plants are constantly chasing various members in a battle. Or a this point you can even add the revive on kill if they still want to. But giving a revive on kill for something that is as unreliable as Zyra's current passive is simply plain cruel for the player.

The Loveless4 votes

You'll probably die before any nearby enemies get low enough for your passive to snipe them. Too conditional, and not very likely to be effective given how her current passive misses a lot of mobile champs.

Flying Buntcake3 votes

+1 for making zyra's passive more skillful.

manbearswine3 votes

I find this shallow and pedantic.

But in a more serious tone: doesn't address any of her issues,is a lame ass reset fitting of an assassin,not a utility mage,definitely not a support.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Her main issue is there's not an actual reason for the opponents to be hit by your Q and E. I feel like if they made Zyra's Q at least realistically easy to hit, then she would be fine. But right now literally the only reasons you should be hit by Zyra's Q, is if you're standing still. It's ridiculous and I feel kind of sad to fight against a Zyra mid lane, even when she's a great Zyra she still struggles with landing her Q due to the .625 second delay time. Which is colossal for it being her main damage ability. Her main damage isn't even extreme, Soraka's Q can potentially (if she hits it in the center) do more damage than it.

Sure the passive might help her, but, It'll only be useful when she's ahead or executes someone in a 1v1. Though the passive itself is impossible to hit unless, they're again, standing still. Or you just decide to walk in front of her. This buff may help her some if they do decide to go through with it, but she'll still have a huge issue that she's probably the least reliable mid laner in the game.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FyPmK0Rp,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-07-29T14:18:07.692+0000)

Her main issue is there's not an actual reason for the opponents to be hit by your Q and E. I feel like if they made Zyra's Q at least realistically easy to hit, then she would be fine. But right now literally the only reasons you should be hit by Zyra's Q, is if you're standing still. It's ridiculous and I feel kind of sad to fight against a Zyra mid lane, even when she's a great Zyra she still struggles with landing her Q due to the .625 second delay time. Which is colossal for it being her main damage ability. Her main damage isn't even extreme, Soraka's Q can potentially (if she hits it in the center) do more damage than it.

Thing is zyra is well,mostly a support right now(there's a reason they changed her recommended itemization),and when the adc is focused on csing,you throw it when he goes for cs and her q is feasible to hit as a support. But then you have the problem that she is squishy,has the lowest ms in the game,this ability roots her in place AND has a miserable 800 range,which makes it very easy for a competant intiator to just kill you,whereas the poke/sustain supports outtrade you anyway. Yes her e is flat out too slow,that's true,granted it has the ability to go through creeps,which makes it decent in lane...just not to defend yourself,but then you remember that laning isn't everything and that supports right now need the ability to roam,or at the very least be able to pressure effectively in a 2v1 lane,and zyra is capable of neither of those.

Sure the passive might help her, but, It'll only be useful when she's ahead or executes someone in a 1v1. Though the passive itself is impossible to hit unless, they're again, standing still. Or you just decide to walk in front of her. This buff may help her some if they do decide to go through with it, but she'll still have a huge issue that she's probably the least reliable mid laner in the game.

More or less I agree,her weaknesses will remain too easy to capitalize for a competent opponent,and this won't change that.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

Zyra NEEDS to be turned back into a mid laner, right now she's probably one of the worst mid laners in the game since anyone with any common sense will just totally invalidate her. Even when she manages to hit her combo, It's not very rewarding.

Meanwhile Annie facerolls QWER and instakills you and your entire team.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FyPmK0Rp,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-29T16:05:53.072+0000)

Zyra NEEDS to be turned back into a mid laner,

Really doesn't,I mean there is really no argument for this,she has higher(albeit not high) popularity as a support,it makes no sense.

right now she's probably one of the worst mid laners in the game since anyone with any common sense will just totally invalidate her. Even when she manages to hit her combo, It's not very rewarding.

She's also one of the worst supports.

Meanwhile Annie facerolls QWER and instakills you and your entire team.

Could be worse,could be cancer like fizz.

Tannhäuser Gate1 votes

annie is more cancerous than fizz

Ser Garland1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FyPmK0Rp,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-07-29T14:18:07.692+0000)

Her main issue is there's not an actual reason for the opponents to be hit by your Q and E. I feel like if they made Zyra's Q at least realistically easy to hit, then she would be fine. But right now literally the only reasons you should be hit by Zyra's Q, is if you're standing still. It's ridiculous and I feel kind of sad to fight against a Zyra mid lane, even when she's a great Zyra she still struggles with landing her Q due to the .625 second delay time. Which is colossal for it being her main damage ability. Her main damage isn't even extreme, Soraka's Q can potentially (if she hits it in the center) do more damage than it.

Sure the passive might help her, but, It'll only be useful when she's ahead or executes someone in a 1v1. Though the passive itself is impossible to hit unless, they're again, standing still. Or you just decide to walk in front of her. This buff may help her some if they do decide to go through with it, but she'll still have a huge issue that she's probably the least reliable mid laner in the game.

In her old champion spotlight it suggested that to play zyra, you can't try to run away from an enemy. To make use of your passive, you must die right next to your enemy, then hope to have gotten them low enough for the kill to hit them with your passive. I never got this because in the end you just died, and at best could hope for a 1 for 1. If the passive on kill revived you instead, you'd of 1'd for 0'd instead. And in team fights, if you could theoretically charge into the enemy when you're on cool down, die, snipe the back line, kill them, revive at their spot, ult the enemy team from behind, die again, snipe another to death, revive at full health where they died etc. That would be awesome.

A Miss Fortune3 votes

I see your point how it could let Zyra cheat the game basically and get a kill out of it, however there's a few issues.

-You have to get them low enough, and Zyra's skillshots are too unreliant

-To actually revive, you have to hit the easiest skillshot in the game to dodge

Ser Garland4 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FyPmK0Rp,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2015-07-29T16:45:17.106+0000)

I see your point how it could let Zyra cheat the game basically and get a kill out of it, however there's a few issues.

-You have to get them low enough, and Zyra's skillshots are too unreliant

-To actually revive, you have to hit the easiest skillshot in the game to dodge

Hey at least its better than what it is currently. You have the hardest skillshot to land on league and it deals 200 damage. WOW.

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

It's much too long of a delay for such a weak skill with low AP scaling. Karthus's Q costs practically nothing, has almost identical base damage and ap scaling when hitting 1 target, has 75 more range, and can be cast every second. Zyra depends far too much on her plants for the rest of her kit to be so unreliable as well. A passive that only works if you die and rarely even hits a target at that. Basically she's used for her awesome ultimate and early game damage but even then there are better choices. It's a shame because she's fun and has one of the coolest kits in the game. It just doesn't work well enough to warrant her use as a support or mage.

Nicorus 1 votes

This was actually a comment in a thread about death passives. It shouldn't be taken as a comment on Zyra's balance.

manbearswine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nicorus ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FyPmK0Rp,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2015-07-29T23:15:07.111+0000)

This was actually a comment in a thread about death passives. It shouldn't be taken as a comment on Zyra's balance.

...what?

Feathermane2 votes

Meh, that passive would get used less than once per game on average. Nothing to get very excited about.

GankLord2 votes

Most immoble mage hardly there is heim, xerath, lux etc but yeah as a zyra "MID"(WHERE SHE BELONGS) main I'm hyped for this change after she caught nerfs.

ReedRichards1 votes

How is she the "most immobile mage"? There are tons of mages with the exact same amount of mobility/cc Xerath Velkoz Brand Annie Anivia Cassiopeia Karthus Syndra to name a few. And one that doesn't have ANY slow/root/stun/etc, and is far and away the most immobile champion in the game Mordekaiser . I do think this sounds like a cool change, but I hate it when people exaggerate shit about their mains. Her lack of mobility is not anything special. At least she has a root and a knock up.

Ser Garland1 votes

{quoted}

How is she the "most immobile mage"? There are tons of mages with the exact same amount of mobility/cc Xerath Velkoz Brand Annie Anivia Cassiopeia Karthus Syndra to name a few. And one that doesn't have ANY slow/root/stun/etc, and is far and away the most immobile champion in the game Mordekaiser . I do think this sounds like a cool change, but I hate it when people exaggerate shit about their mains. Her lack of mobility is not anything special. At least she has a root and a knock up.

My apologies, One of the most immobile mages in the game (Granted she does have some of the lowest ms in the game to boot) not to mention she's also one of the squishiest, has zero sustain, no shields or heals, low range and high mana cost on her abilities and an unreliable dps portion to her kit. She just has so many blaring weaknesses that its really hard to justify her strengths. Zerath has one of the highest ranged pokes in the game, Velkoz has very reliable zoning capabilities, Brand's DPS is part and parcel with his skill shots not his plant's longevity, Annie is naturally tanky and has point and click stun nuke's, Annivia has tower dive insurance, casseopia has late game sustain as does Karthus, Syndra at least used to have the most reliable point and click 100-0 ability in the game.

Even Mordekaiser's kit revolves around him sustaining and tanking out damage, he's not squishy at all. Plus he's due for a rework.

Zyra just feels like a worse lovechild between heimerdinger and Lux. When was the last time you saw a Zyra mid -or- support?

hpp31 votes

{quoted}

How is she the "most immobile mage"? There are tons of mages with the exact same amount of mobility/cc Xerath Velkoz Brand Annie Anivia Cassiopeia Karthus Syndra to name a few. And one that doesn't have ANY slow/root/stun/etc, and is far and away the most immobile champion in the game Mordekaiser . I do think this sounds like a cool change, but I hate it when people exaggerate shit about their mains. Her lack of mobility is not anything special. At least she has a root and a knock up.

Zyra 325 movespeed Xerath 340 movespeed Velkoz 340 movespeed Brand 340 movespeed Annie 335 movespeed Anivia 325 movespeed Cassiopeia 335 + 20% movespeed Karthus 335 movespeed Syndra 330 movespeed Mordekaiser 340 movespeed + 60 movespeed

Of those champions, only Anivia has the same degree of immobility + squishiness.

Celeste Benal1 votes

Call her new passive Night Soil.

I'm thinking that the passive would have to actually kill someone for her to be reborn.

alfavhunter1 votes

Stars passive should be this

Throrny embrace

When Zyra or one of her plants die they leave a thorn bush behind for 5 seconds that slows targets passing through them by 25% and deals 10Xlvl +.15 ap damage per second to any targets in the thorn bush

This gives her more peel and damage, and her personal death thorn bush would be massive while the others would be relatively small

Size of the bush would be about 300% the size of a minion, and her death would make a spot 600% the size of a minion

Darksphinx1 votes

I agree with a change of passive Zyra and I also would like to see in mid lane she was a mage and mid it is not as viable as before

pls some love to zyra

(Sorry my English is bad)

ElJanitorFrank1 votes

If you saw this when if first came up, how did you miss Meddler saying that he would look into it as a viable change that might go into the game?

Shifune1 votes

Somewhere later in that thread Meddler also said that on average, Zyra's passive probably only gets 1 kill a game. So basically, her passive is still useless. Honestly, you're just shooting a ridiculously slow toothpick at people.

LVL 5 PORO1 votes

WE DID IT BOYZ! Rito is gonna fix Zyra! I'm surprised they even remembers she exist. All the recent champion changes have been great, imo, cant wait for this~! :D

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