Riven's weakness should be an energy source.

Ser Garland··199 votes·9,132 views

Let's face it, you can nerf her stats until the cow's come home. You can nerf her CDR and her auto cancelling. She'll still build 40 percent cool down and always have an edge if you time her abilities just right.

It's simply because her kit is really good. It's too complex to simply be a manaless kit. She has a triple dash knock up combo, an Aoe stun and an AD scaling shield/dash. Her ultimate basically gives her a massive steroid to everything plus an execute.

She needs mana, or at least energy, and I'll tell you why:

If her shield's off cool down, and she didn't waste it like an idiot, she can bait out ignite. Anytime. out of combat, she's not walking like every other champion, she's taking the hyrule express. Wave dashing like she was Link or Alucard in Sotn.

This is the biggest problem I have with her. Her mobility isn't just obnoxious, it looks ridiculous. Why is she swinging at the air? Why is she moving forward so much just by swinging a sword?

If she had an energy source, she'd think twice about using it to cross the river faster. We'd also have a tell on when she'd be vulnerable. Plus all the riven mains could finally look forward to buffs! Everyone wins.

Unless the Riven mains admit that stats<kit spam ability, in which case, they admit that her abilities are broken. ;)

229 Comments

Raptamei89 votes

Riven's weakness should be an energy source.

I thought you wanted to generate electricity by repeatedly nerfing Riven.

Rew7113 votes

What if she had that thing like Rumble, only she gets tired after a while and loses AS, MS, and some AD for a short while? Like, each attack of her Q adds 10 energy each, her W is 20, and her E is also 20. Once she gets to 100, you must wait 10 (or at least 5) seconds with -10 MS, -10% AS, and -40 AD. But, to compensate, she gains endurance (such as: +10 tenacity, +5 armor, and +5 magic resist). Stats can get buffed as she levels (and the nerfs get harsh as she levels too).

Note: she can still use abilities so no self silences.

OperationDEEZ159 votes

out of combat, she's not walking like every other champion, she's taking the hyrule express. Wave dashing like she was Link or Alucard in Sotn.

This made me chuckle c:

Shénzhì22 votes

She also needs muscles in her physiology. That tiny thing is such a toon and couldn't even push a shopping trolley.

I want a muscly Riven.

Ironclad Dragon10 votes

But she can't be an anime fighter then! She needs to be a twig who can casually swing a massive sword that Sion would need both hands to use! She has to have "natural" short-cropped white hair!

DonutChan20 votes

"If her shield's off cool down, and she didn't waste it like an idiot, she can bait out ignite. Anytime." Uh Homie, Ignite last 5 seconds. Also Valor last 1.5 seconds, ALSO so can Diana Kayle Orianna Sion Tryndamere Urgot TahmKench Yasuo Zac Zilean Udyr Rengar (debatable) Lulu Lux Nautilus Vi

"Unless the Riven mains admit that stats<kit spam ability, in which case, they admit that her abilities are broken. ;)" You know, adding a winky face doesn't make it less dumb.

"You can nerf her CDR and her auto cancelling." Still an intended part of her kid.

Ser Garland12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Futa Chiyosuke,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oeqPVKI5,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-08-07T15:25:41.960+0000)

"If her shield's off cool down, and she didn't waste it like an idiot, she can bait out ignite. Anytime." Uh Homie, Ignite last 5 seconds. Also Valor last 1.5 seconds, ALSO so can Diana Kayle Orianna Sion Tryndamere Urgot TahmKench Yasuo Zac Zilean Udyr Rengar (debatable) Lulu Lux Nautilus Vi

"Unless the Riven mains admit that stats<kit spam ability, in which case, they admit that her abilities are broken. ;)" You know, adding a winky face doesn't make it less dumb.

"You can nerf her CDR and her auto cancelling." Still an intended part of her kid.

Got a trick for you. You lane against an opponent with ignite, as Riven. keep a health pot on standby. Make yourself look vulnerable. Enemy all in's you, uses ignite. You gtfo dodge your way to safety, shield, while popping that one health potion. Ignite will never kill you pre 6.

Zaghyr24 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oeqPVKI5,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-08-07T15:53:01.928+0000)

Got a trick for you. You lane against an opponent with ignite, as Riven. keep a health pot on standby. Make yourself look vulnerable. Enemy all in's you, uses ignite. You gtfo dodge your way to safety, shield, while popping that one health potion. Ignite will never kill you pre 6.

Got a trick for you. DO THAT WITH EVERY OTHER CHAMP ON THE LIST

Gunslinger74410 votes

Yeah because Diana, Kayle, Orianna, Sion, Urgot, Tahm, Lux and Nautilus all have 3 damaging dashes and one shielded dash that combine into about 1200 range crossed with 0 (zero) cost and with low cooldowns. Since when can Rengar bait out an ignite? Grievous wounds halves the health he gets from an Empowered Roar and it drains his Ferocity while he's at it. Notice that I left out Tryndamere, Zilean, Kayle and Zac. Because 3 of those "baits" are ultimates, and one is on a 300 second cooldown which is not affected by cdr and he can still easily be killed when it's popped.

Seriously, think your shit through before you make a fool out of yourself.

Zaghyr12 votes

{quoted}

Yeah because Diana, Kayle, Orianna, Sion, Urgot, Tahm, Lux and Nautilus all have 3 damaging dashes and one shielded dash that combine into about 1200 range crossed with 0 (zero) cost and with low cooldowns. Since when can Rengar bait out an ignite? Grievous wounds halves the health he gets from an Empowered Roar and it drains his Ferocity while he's at it. Notice that I left out Tryndamere, Zilean, Kayle and Zac. Because 3 of those "baits" are ultimates, and one is on a 300 second cooldown which is not affected by cdr and he can still easily be killed when it's popped.

Seriously, think your shit through before you make a fool out of yourself.

Did you ever think you shit through? Ever take into account each champ's kit an their cc? What the champ they are up against? Do they have mobility? Any other follow-up? More times than i can count i have baited ignites with diana, sion, and yes, even rengar.

Think your own shit through before you make yourself sound like an asshole.

Arsenic Sulfur2 votes

{quoted}

Got a trick for you. DO THAT WITH EVERY OTHER CHAMP ON THE LIST

What's the difference with those champions? They either have mana, or some form of time limit on it. You WON'T do it with Yasuo if they all in you while you have full shield, or no shield.

TotalJerk20 votes

Hell no to Mana. She'll build sheen and tear if she gets mana.

soliznoel2 votes

I don't feel like that would be the case because the only stats riven wants is CDR and AD, giving her mana would make her prioritize way too many stats for the nature of her kit, would she buy triforce first? or brutalizer to keep her E and Q on a lower CD? or tear for the mana? and then because of the way her broken wings would she have mana cost on each broken wings cast or the initial cast? If she doesn't use all broken wings she would be wasting a lot of mana making it each time she went into harrass she would run out of mana really quick. especially since riven relies on her e to trade that would cost mana too.

magic pole2 votes

she'll builditem 3508 which would trivialize the added mana costs

LionelLeon18 votes

Riven is one of those champs that if u do one small nerf or a small buff, they change dramatically.

The Soulforged9 votes

True. Right now, I think she's on a knife's edge, and she's actually balancing pretty well. Her kit is frustrating, but her stats aren't enough to push her over the edge. Kinda like Yasuo.

Saianna7 votes

If she was fine, then we wouldn't have so many "nerf Riven already Zzzzz" threads..

Imo she's too strong, energy could work pretty well to slow her steamrolling in certain matchups

The Soulforged3 votes

Pubstompers will always be raged at. Riven is a pubstomper with her huge snowball potential. Since the majority of the community is in bronze/silver, pubstompers will continue to be raged at. People also frustrate over her kit which makes them want to nerf her, which her numbers are a lot lower to make up for the strong kit.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

Remember what happened to the last pub stomper. They made her weak in all elos and in all stages of the game

The Soulforged1 votes

So you're saying that pubstompers should be balanced around the lower elos?

TheRainInSpain2 votes

The lower elos constitute most of the playerbase. You're saying something should be balanced around the super elite LCS teams whose players make up less than 200 people out of 4 million people?

3sTbGoP7ES3 votes

You can't balance things around low elo players. If you balance a champion around low elo the champion becomes too weak in high elo where people have proper knowledge(weakness/strengths) about that champion.

The same thing could be said for high elo. If a champion is balanced around high elo the champion becomes too strong in low elo?, but no. It actually means low elo lacks the proper game knowledge about the champion than high elo. So what to do then if you are in low elo? You just have to learn the champion by playing it yourself.

Surprisingly Riven has 49-50% win-rate in low elo. From Plat+ she has 52%+ win rate.

Cosnirak5 votes

It's much better to have a champion that's balanced at low elo and unplayable weak at high elo than a champion that's op as hell at low elo and balanced at high elo. Why? Because in one case people just play other champions at high elo and in the other case the vast majority of players (low elo) are constantly dealing with annoying ass champions that ruin the fun for everyone else.

3sTbGoP7ES4 votes

Did you read my post? Riven has 49-50% win-rate in low-elo, how in the world is she op as hell in low elo with that 49% winrate? She has higher win-rate in plat+.

LaowPing2 votes

This game is balanced for platinum and up. At lower elos, champions might seem too weak or too strong due to inexperience of the players skewing the results. Higher elos show how strong a champion truly is since they aren't as limited by the players skill. This is why so many changes are based off of LCS. LCS players can show how strong a champion truly is. If they balance around the lower elos and make champions that are weak at higher elos than it limits what champions are viable, then everyone will be begging for buffs because a champion was made unplayable just because someone at Gold and lower wasn't good enough to handle it.

68636949_DEL1 votes

[deleted]

Saianna4 votes

Please, stop with that logic. This game is for all. Ofcourse bronze X isn't as skilled as Diamond I, but he's a human being with emotions [frustration]. He didn't feel outplayed by enemy [Riven]. He felt cheated because no matter how much did he try, he couldn't beat Riven player of the same skill...

and i understand this feeling. But then, I'm just what... Silver 2? Or 5?

Partholonian2 votes

{quoted}

If she was fine, then we wouldn't have so many "nerf Riven already Zzzzz" threads..

Yes, we would. Everyone who loses to a Riven while thinking they deserved to win is a person who could potentially start one. That doesn't require Riven to be OP. It just requires her to be not complete garbage.

There are a lot of players who aren't as good as they think they are. So they blame their losses on something else, like the opposing champ being OP.

Saianna3 votes

About 2 or 3 weeks ago there was a certain thread which made HUGE impression on me. in that thread was video of Yasuo under his turret that got instantly blown up. 100-0. By Riven.

Yeah, she had 1 level advantage, brutalizer.. But she gave him NO time to react. it happen faster than his windwall animation.

And she recieved up to 2 turret shots. On engage flash & running away. All blocked by her shield.

That video just made me damn sure, that if someone should be nerfed, then it's Riven.

I'm sorry but i won't find it. It's quite old and i've made nice amount of posts... But feel free to find it yourself :)

SociopathFriend2 votes

Just pointing out, I get raged at every game I play Malzahar in for picking a "bullshit champ".

If rage = OP then Malz and Teemo are some of the most broken champions in the game.

OnanThaMan2 votes

Malzahar isn't bullshit, he just shuts down a lot of popular champs. Yasuo ZedKatarina to name a few. He can play it safe until 6 by farming with his e and if they try to make a move on him he can burst them down or force them out of lane when played well.

JAGMAG2 votes

hes pretty bull shit even his mains say he should never lose lane hes so oppressive and if your melle you just gave up your lane

Auz the Ripper3 votes

Anivia Brand Orianna Lux Xerath Morgana and Syndra all can easily deal with him.

The key to stopping Malz is just poking him out and never outright engaging him.

SociopathFriend4 votes

I don't know about "easily" but they have a much better chance at poking him out of lane for the first few minutes. Course, that makes Malz roam and Malz ganks are deadly.

Syndra I flat-out disagree with; almost all of her kit requires her to be too close to Malzahar and if she misses her stun she's screwed.

O Fallen Scholar11 votes

This thread again. Let's pick Voli and change him resourceless.

Núll9 votes

[deleted]

Horrow8 votes

{quoted}

Well, if anything, I love getting near Riven and autoattacking her so she dashes away and wastes shield expecting harass.

And then I nuke her defenseless arse afterwards.

Tasty, tasty Riven ...

I think you're just living a dream. I literally NEVER see a Riven dash away from a trade. She'll dash into you and just use all her abilities. That's what I see every Riven do. Dunno what Rivens you face, because none of them do that.

Wajster7 votes

I agree she needs a resource bar, not mana but energy. One of the best ideas to go about balancing her. Gj op.

AbsoluteSadman6 votes

But riven has super low base regen that she can negate with timing her e and a lifesteal item!

That's balanced right?

YumaS2Astral24 votes

{quoted}

But riven has super low base regen that she can negate with timing her e and a lifesteal item!

That's balanced right?

She doesn't need to worry about sustain when she can just burst you down before you are able to outsustain her

That's how she wins against many sustain-based champions, including DrMundo and Vladimir

ShatteredSkys26 votes

{quoted}

She doesn't need to worry about sustain when she can just burst you down before you are able to outsustain her

That's how she wins against many sustain-based champions, including DrMundo and Vladimir

She wins vs those two because they are incredibly weak early game. Mundo has no way of stopping riven from jumping him and if he tries to fight back he loses more hp from his health costs. Vlad does no damage during the early game and if he tries to cs riven is just going constantly rush him down.

Left Hook Larry20 votes

{quoted}

She wins vs those two because they are incredibly weak early game. Mundo has no way of stopping riven from jumping him and if he tries to fight back he loses more hp from his health costs. Vlad does no damage during the early game and if he tries to cs riven is just going constantly rush him down.

That's the problem. Riven has no weak time period. She does a shit ton of damage early, mid , and late game. Combine this with her Aoe stun, Aoe knock up, her mobility, her shield, and no resource she becomes oppressive as fuck

Joquan8 votes

Play riven vs garen, renekton, and nasus after frozen heart if you want to know what being oppressed is

iamthegoatofwar1 votes

the problem with nasus is surviving the 1st like 10 minutes of hell...you try to q farm you WILL get jumped on i tend to play nasus if i trust my jungler to gank since ill be bait. the wither on riven early when she HAS COOLDOWNS is op as fuck.

Project Riven3 votes

{quoted}

the problem with nasus is surviving the 1st like 10 minutes of hell...you try to q farm you WILL get jumped on i tend to play nasus if i trust my jungler to gank since ill be bait. the wither on riven early when she HAS COOLDOWNS is op as fuck.

Any smart nasus would halt his farm until Riven pushes to turret. One, it's more beneficial for Nasus and two, it gives Nasus' jungler opportunity to gank.

Eevee In A Jar9 votes

That's not 100% true. Mundo and Vlad have extremely weak early game. I know people pick Vlad to counter a lot of top champs but that's because Vlad can kite n harass. Vlad can't do that against Riven. In fact, kiting Riven is extremely hard especially as a typical top laning champion. Even most ADC's have hard time kiting Riven esp. with her flash.

A Mundo who survives laning phase against Riven with decent CS CAN beat her... but any competent Riven will zone and deny farm in lane as Riven will just pubstomp early.

3sTbGoP7ES6 votes

Her single target abilities arent strong enough to justify the energy requirement. She was designed to have no resource bar that is how her passive stacks work. She doesn't have any targetted abilities.

People tend to forget that Riven's damage abilities are the ones that give her mobility. If she is using her abilities to gap close you with her Q and E then trade with her because she can only W and auto-attack you.

Riven is a very weird champion. She becomes very strong if she snowballs you but if she doesnt she becomes the weakest champion in the game. That is what is called High Risk High Reward champion. You can't have success with Riven by just spamming abilities. You have to know the combos' and your own potential.

Tho there is one thing I think should be nerfed if the need arises. Her cooldown on her ultimate late-game could use a very slight nerf. Because with 40% cdr it is just 30 seconds late game.

Apart from this I think Riven is a pretty balanced champion overall. Her shield scales with Bonus AD not full AD tho has the lowest duration of all the shields in the game, just 1.5 seconds. Her W's range and stun is also pretty low 0.75 seconds. She does have 4 dashes tho they are the shortest dash in the game. Animation cancelling is one of the things that makes her viable and gives her the high skill cap. She lacks sustain, movement speed buffs and slow and targetted abilties.

If Riven is a broken champion then why don't we climb to CHALLENJOUR with her? Ofc we can't.

KatCraft6 votes

I think the whole concept of having resourceless champions is extremely stupid to begin with.

kronos992 votes

Riven is actually really weak if you can get a jungler to gank your lane enough to deny her any kills because when Riven begins getting kills she starts to snowball.. so i think shes balanced as she is. just need junglers to babysit your lane for a bit :).

Mandang02 votes

The problem with giving Riven energy is that she's meant to spam her spells in combinations (like a fighting game). Energy doesn't work well with that style of play - either you prevent her from doing a full combo, which feels terrible, or you allow her to still complete combos and all the energy system does is weaken her 2nd combo maybe.

There are better ways to fix Riven's interaction in lane.

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