Supports are binary and more unfun then ever.

Ser Garland·Sep 16, 2015·39 votes·2,976 views

All I ever see are Leona's, Thresh's, and the occasional Janna or Blitz or Soraka.
No one ever rushes to Finnish their Support items because they're -just- not that good.
Everyone rushes sightstone because it's deemed necessary to have in the vision wars.
Sightstone is unfun and clearly favours tanky supports over anything offensive.

The support items and Sighstone need to follow suit in lew of last season's jungle items. The support items need to constitute as end game worthy and sighstone needs to stop taking up an item slot. Merge the two items so supports can be fun.

84 Comments

TeemoJenkinsSep 16, 20159 votes

I completely agree, I'd love to see the Sightstones build into something useful - so many good suggestions have come up over the years. Initially the support items are great, but I also don't them beyond their initial incarnations.

Ser GarlandSep 16, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree, I'd love to see the Sightstones build into something useful - so many good suggestions have come up over the years. Initially the support items are great, but I also don't them beyond their initial incarnations.

I think the enchantment system was brilliant for the jungle items so that you can combine both your champion's archetype and role, with your play style. If Riot could do the same with Vision for the Support items that would be awesome.

MrWasjigSep 17, 20152 votes

I can't help but +1 pretty much all of your posts in this thread and the thread itself. I enjoy playing Support (since I main it) but I have to agree that Sightstone is just....well, Sightstone. Here's your infinite wards and that's all. I like all the suggestions being put forward and think there's plenty of room to expand Support items and make them more specialized. The Trinket upgrades are a good start but there's waaaaaay more that could be done with it all.

Hayaishi2Sep 16, 20158 votes

Just before anyone brings it up again, giving sightstones enchantments is NOT a good idea.

Ser GarlandSep 16, 201516 votes

{quoted}

Just before anyone brings it up again, giving sightstones enchantments is NOT a good idea.

Why?

BeatzBoyFTWSep 16, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEvJEEAv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-09-16T23:12:21.634+0000)

Why?

Because it will be abused more by other laners instead(just like when Runeglaive & Cinderhulk was first introduced), and even worse, LeeSin

Silents429Sep 17, 201528 votes

{quoted}

Because it will be abused more by other laners instead(just like when Runeglaive & Cinderhulk was first introduced), and even worse,

Yeah, laners abusing ward items, the worst that can happen.. /sarcasm

Gregor GysiSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, laners abusing ward items, the worst that can happen.. /sarcasm

Ok dude. We already have trinkets, but ppl don't use it. That basically means that those who don't ward anyways won't ward no matter what you do. They already have free wards.

But those who do ward, are able to do it even more. And I don't think that LCS gets more exciting just because the map is even more visible. Yes, laners abusing ward items is something bad, even though these GD 'nobody except for me wards' maymays exist.

DrCyanideSep 17, 20153 votes

You're assuming that the enhancements make it good enough to be a priority item. If the enhancement was the equivalent of "replace Ruby Crystal with Amp Tome" in the recipe, do you really think laners would buy it? I'm trying to remember the last LCS match where the tanky top laner bought a Sightstone, and can't think of an instance.

Silents429Sep 17, 20153 votes

You are going to argue to many wards is bad?

Gregor GysiSep 17, 20156 votes

{quoted}

You are going to argue to many wards is bad?

I am going to argue that it is indeed possible to make vision too easily accessible, yes. And not only that, I'm also arguing that even then many people still wouldn't ward.

Kitten of EvilSep 17, 20154 votes

Vision needs to be limited, partially because it's a major factor in making picks, controlling objectives, and setting up teamfights. But also overly accessible vision hurts the players who are the most obligated to maintain it. I played support back before the 3-ward limit, and it sucked because you could never ward enough to please your team, and half (or more) of your gold went to warding.

Silents429Sep 17, 20153 votes

It is possible, but it's not going to happen.

Anyone with a sight stone is going to swap out to get a red trinket, which will keep the enemy wards in check, getting an upgraded yellow and a sight stone is just weird.

The enhancements done can be done to benefit supports better then they would laners, it's not being asked we tack 60 armor and 20% CDR onto it, just want to give it something extra so it doesn't feel like a waste of space.

The Yetii RiderSep 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Because it will be abused more by other laners instead(just like when Runeglaive & Cinderhulk was first introduced), and even worse,

Why is that a bad thing? I'd honestly prefer it if Sightstone was built on everyone. Then we could all have vision and people would stop hating on supports for not warding.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 17, 20152 votes

Then lemme ask you this. If people are that selfish to not purchase a simple 250gold trinket upgrade just to save up for Infinity Edge or Deathcap, then whats the point of making a more expensive warding item? Imo, it's simply a waste of time.

DalthineSep 17, 20153 votes

You're arguing against yourself, here. Your initial point was that if Sightstone gave better stats everyone would build it, but now you're saying there's no point to making them because no one would bother with a warding item.

The short answer to make this work I think is to make them gold efficient but extremely slot inefficient. It's the same principle current Sightstone follows but less extreme. Supports rarely reach full build, so they don't care if they lose a slot to Sightstone, but any role that expects to need 6 items eventually would have to think twice.

I wouldn't expect early game dominant champions to make great use of these either, who would be those who most benefit from this setup. They're almost always going to go for win more stats rather than throw gold at more wards.

Lee Sin is the exception because Sightstone increases his mobility considerably.

Hayaishi2Sep 16, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEvJEEAv,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-09-16T23:12:21.634+0000)

Why?

The fix to everything is not enchantments. We already have boot enchantments, jungle enchantments and different jungle machetes which is the same concept as enchantments

Half the boots enchantments are not used, while the other two are fine in that regard Riot has had an horrible time balancing the jungle enchantments.

Also god knows what would happen if we let sightstones give AP (which is what i know you all want) Annie will take over bot lane as she did the first time supports were allowed to have more stats. Balance in bot lane is too delicate.

Smegma123Sep 17, 20153 votes

I regularly use all the boots enchantments depending on the game. If sightstones were to get enchantments it should be something like increased trinket range, increased ward duration, increased cast range of activable items/trinkets, plus maybe 20 armor/mr and 5% cdr. Stuff that isn't worth an item slot on anybody but supports.

Axis the DragonSep 17, 20153 votes

For real? :O I'm like 90% of the time on Homeguards lol (gotta go fast man)

Occasionally Furors on ADCs, but that's about it

I barely touch Alacrity (unless I'm Jungle Hec or something, sometimes Ryze but Homeguards TP is 2 gud) and I honestly only use Distortion if I'm playing a Flash-necessary engage Champions (Annie/Galio come to mind). God knows I never touch Captain (but that's because I'm bad)

Kitten of EvilSep 17, 20151 votes

You use Distortion?

Smegma123Sep 17, 20151 votes

yeah on blitz/janna mostly (depends on the game of course) rarely on mids as well. mids mostly alacrity. captain works on champs like amumu/maokai - run in first and use rigteous glory(except i never play those champs). rarely i get it on blitz too.

yeah pretty much all the enchantments i feel are good.

MCBiggah99Sep 17, 20151 votes

UNBENCH THE KENCH

SexySoapTurtleSep 17, 20157 votes

Riot doesnt care about supports. They only care about #lcsbigplays jugs.

XonraSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Riot doesnt care about supports. They only care about #lcsbigplays jugs.

That was obvious by the great support nerf previously to compensate for all that gold we were supposed to get, but didn't work out that way.

I'm getting no more or less items now then I was before. The only difference is the items I get now aren't as impactful outside of my sight stone unless my team is way ahead and I can get real items.

Krys StarSep 17, 20154 votes

I stopped using support items around when season 3 started. They got rid of Locket, Soul Shroud, and just kicked supports in the shins just because 'aura is invisible and unappreciative.' Which is a load of bull.

item 3222 has too long of a cooldown to warrant its usefulness when it only removes such limited cc and gives a mediocre heal. If it had Athene's passive of restoring 30% mana, maybe even 15% mana, I'd take it more often.

item 3504 is useless beyond laning phase, because most champions you heal/shield either wont benefit from the aspd, or wont benefit from the extra magic damage (especially when they're ad and have no magic pen, thus making the extra damage useless mid to late game). The aspd buff is also so considerably low, and the stats it offers are so weak except for the movement speed.

item 3110 is most commonly picked up on tanks, particularly top lane and/or jungle that supports waste their time and income trying to get the item themselves in most cases.

item 3050 I don't really like the idea that you need to be close to your chosen target, otherwise you waste 60 long crucial seconds and a lot of time when you need to leave to ward, restock your sight stone, heal up, help another lane/player, etc.

item 3023 can be useful, but you don't really have room to build that when you have sight stone hogging up your item slots on top of your choice of either item 3069 item 3401 item 3092 .

item 3844 item 3841 item 3840 <-- By far the most amazing item they created for supports during the Bilgewater Event, yet unknowingly and strangely didn't keep it. This item made supporting amazing and EXCITING.

LeetriSep 17, 20153 votes

It's true though that auras are not as appreciated. Compare Fiddle's passive to say Blitzcrank's. How many people even notices Fiddle's passive?

Krys StarSep 17, 20151 votes

Fiddle's passive is no longer an aura though, because it'd reveal him if he was standing in a bush or the like.

Fiddlesticks's abilities reduce his targets' magic resistance by 10 for 2.5 seconds, with subsequent casts refreshing the duration.

Auras weren't hard to appreciate. I was just quoting Riot's bs. Soraka's 16 mres aura was pretty amazing, as well as Soul Shroud's aura.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Shroud

LeetriSep 20, 20151 votes

Oh yeah, I forgot they reworked his passive. Anyway, auras are invisible power. It's just a stat boost without any interaction, which makes it really hard to appreciate. Note that I've never said that auras are bad, they can be incredible. But people don't appreciate them because they're hard to notice. Cinderhulk/Sunfire Cape have appreciable auras since you can actually see it blazing away, ticking down their health. But most auras are just stat boosts that the average player really doesn't notice. Compare an aura that gives a nearby champion 100 armour to a shield that would negate the same amount of damage. Most people would take the shield over the aura, because it FEELS like it does something. You can actually see the shield on your healthbar and see it negating damage, "wow my support clutched that shield". Had it been just bonus armour you'd think "wow he does little damage" and not "wow my support walked close to me and gave me bonus stats which made me take less damage". That's the problem with auras, you need to make them REALLY good for people to appreciate them. Also note that we're talking about the average player, not pros or people who memorize everything on the wiki. They're the players who don't even know that you can upgrade your trinket into the most OP item in the game, so they're not gonna notice a 16 M.Res aura when they're close to Soraka.

manbearswineSep 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frozen Beauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEvJEEAv,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2015-09-17T04:26:32.768+0000)

I don't really like the idea that you need to be close to your chosen target, otherwise you waste 60 long crucial seconds and a lot of time when you need to leave to ward, restock your sight stone, heal up, help another lane/player, etc.

I fucking hate the very idea of this item "let's make supports spend their gold to give other teammates stats,as clearly supports have too many stats themselves"

Thanks riot.

ADepressedLeonaSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I fucking hate the very idea of this item "let's make supports spend their gold to give other teammates stats,as clearly supports have too many stats themselves"

Thanks riot.

If I recall correctly, Harbinger buffs both you AND your carry at max charges.

SquarefighterSep 17, 20153 votes

Why do you say that? I've had more fun on support Bard and Blitz this season than I have ever had on support. Sounds like just your opinion honestly.

Kitten of EvilSep 17, 20152 votes

I love Bard and TK support, personally. It's only binary if you make it binary, and I think people greatly overstate the effect of "OP" champions.

Now I do agree it's boring to see the same supports in every game, but that's inevitable in any game with a meta.

IDKthatcoolSep 17, 20153 votes

They should rework sightstone, but not like machete, give different enchantments that instead of providing stats or passives to your champ provide stats for your wards and the vision they provide.

Professor WardSep 16, 20152 votes

the thing i really dont want to see, ( and i only play support) is supports easily being able to carry kills.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 17, 20153 votes

AP supports with the ability to get kills isn't too bad. They shouldn't be carrying, but they should be able to poke/heal/do stuffs with AP without having to lose an item slot on Sightstone, where they get no AP.

HentRexSep 16, 20152 votes

How bout just rework the sight stone upgrade?

Sightstone + Ruby = Ruby Sightstone 800G + 400G + 200G =1400
Sightstone + Tome = Essence of Iris 800G + 435G + 165G =1400
SIghtstone + Null = Scera's Blessing 800G + 500G + 100G =1400 Sightstone + Cloth = Pupil's Embrace 800G + 300G + 300G =1400

OrangesilkSep 17, 20152 votes

What about AD supports? D=

XonraSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What about AD supports? D=

What AD supports?

There aren't any unless you are trying to shoehorn something into support that doesn't actually support.

Every support is either ap, an ex mage, a utility bot, or a tank (who also have mostly AP scaling, like Naut and Alistar)

DemaciaClownSep 17, 20152 votes

Sion? Put him with a bursty adc like trist or graves. :9

TNHA BaritoneSep 17, 20152 votes

GP Ashe Kalista all can suppott Imo

TurquoiseYoshiSep 17, 20152 votes

We need a support item overhaul and an ADC item overhaul for Season 6. So a bot lane item overhaul.

Because Infinity Edge being in every game is totally balanced.

Hay5eedSep 17, 20152 votes

I totally agree with you. Let's keep sightstone, add a few vision items that do something other then give health. For example, an item that gives cooldown and, when activated, reveals the surrounding area (like quinn's W) An Item that grants AP and lets you heal an ally for a amount that scales AP Rework Twinshadows so that you can buy it at 800 gold. An item that refills upon backing (like sightstone), but their wards last only a third as long, with an expanding sight range the longer they last. Maybe a special item that places a marker, and you have sight of anything between you and the marker, is visible to enemy units and is destroyed in one hit.

Chuck CharlesSep 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ser Garland,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEvJEEAv,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-16T22:43:52.173+0000)

Sightstone is unfun and clearly favours tanky supports over anything offensive.

dude, honestly this stood out to me the most. its not that rushing sighstone sucks. because it is what you should be rushing. it is the most efficient item in gp 10 because you ward so much. but...what if they offered different sighstones based on what type of support you were? health is good on all champs especially for not being squishy. but what if they made the sighstone give a minor amount of ap, ad, or something offensive in general? like 20 ap, and the power to ward. that way supports like annie, lux, etc. I know a supports primary job is to not dish out dmg, but having a support being able to at least have a little bit of dmg when coming back into lane is something interesting to think about. it would fall off mid to late game anyway so its not like it would be op. would strictly help lane phase. I'd also be interested in a sighstone item that gave mana as mana issues early are one of the biggest support problems. although the new support mastery they gave us that is essentially a mini athenes as a mastery helped a lot.

Hatless CasualSep 17, 20152 votes

It's kind of stupid when your team will flame you because you want to play a sustain or poke support. Not the biggest fan of tanks personally, your just a literal meat shield.

GreymooreSep 17, 20152 votes

One thing that can be done is combine item 2049 with the 3 support items item 3302 , item 3301 , item 3303 to create 3 new support items. Then create a special category called specialty items that contains all the supp items and jungler items and specify that you can only have one specialty item and you need smite if you want the jungler item. this is similar to how you can only have 1 gold income item but includes the jungler items. It will force junglers that buy sightstone to buy normal wards nerfing them a bit

GaleWinUnleashedSep 17, 20152 votes

Meanwhile, I'm just playing Lulu every game. And finishing my Talisman.

Bulletproof CarSep 17, 20151 votes

i refuse to support cause support is unfun and if forced to i dont buy trink or stone to make the game more fun

XonraSep 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bulletproof Car,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEvJEEAv,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-09-17T02:05:18.473+0000)

i refuse to support cause support is unfun and if forced to i dont buy trink or stone to make the game more fun

And this is why people like you shouldn't be allowed into ranked matches. The game isn't all about you despite you treating it that way. You "having more fun" that way likely loses the game for your team and just makes them annoyed at you trolling like that.

Bulletproof CarSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And this is why people like you shouldn't be allowed into ranked matches. The game isn't all about you despite you treating it that way. You "having more fun" that way likely loses the game for your team and just makes them annoyed at you trolling like that.

i only use wards in ranked so ure point is mute

XonraSep 17, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bulletproof Car,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TEvJEEAv,comment-id=000d00010000,timestamp=2015-09-17T06:29:59.048+0000)

i only use wards in ranked so ure point is mute

... <_< the amount of things wrong with this response. I don't know where to start.