Luden's Echo is more absurd than DFG

I thought it was totally fine, then I realized it's most beneficial for the most anti-fun opponents.

People like Kat and Leblanc can buy it for both crazy burst and insane poke. (Their poke becomes assassination material, actually.)

And then try facing a Nidalee with Luden's. 10 spears miss, one hits and there goes 2/3rds of your Hp. It perfectly accomodates her sort of, "I can't land a skillshot, so I'll just spam until I eventually land one lucky shot" playstyle.

No offense to Nidalee players...not that she can't be played skillfully, just that it's too easy to do well with her, because missing your spears costs very little...and Luden's only exacerbates this issue by making that one skillshot she lands every once in awhile become "nuclear-tipped" again.

It makes already balanced or underpowered champs better but still reasonable. However it also makes obnoxious champs even more obnoxious. Solution? Fix or nerf the obnoxious champs.

It is still better then dfg. dfg was just dumb.

XD you think ludens is better than dfg? Ludens damage if you have 1k ap: 250 Dfg damage: 15% of their MAXIMUM health as well as increasing your damage by 20%. Dfg was a nuke that increased the damage of your other nukes, ludens is a small bit of extra damage on 1 out of every couple spells you cast. The Aoe doesn't matter since it is not even noticeable damage on its own.

I cannot count the number of times I have been bursted by dfg, but I am still yet to die from ludens.

Why is absurd? Can you tell me your reasons? Cana you deep more in your sentence?

Ludens is amazing on Morde though.

As far as burst, DFG did more than Luden's does, so you can't possibly think that's the reason Luden's is a bigger offender.

Waveclear is the strength of Luden's, but people aren't complaining about it for that reason, they're complaining because they want their DFG faceroll 100-to-0 back.

Yesterday i was killing people with annie from full health to dead using just QW. No tibbers needed. Just because of ludens echo. At least with DFG you had to press 3 buttons, now you only have to press one or two. GJ riot you fix- oh wait....

Strong on tryndamere XD

I agree about nid spear returning to her former self. Tbh I don't mind.

I do find Mr should be easier to obtain. like on the new zzrot item. When I look at team damage end game its not that uncommon to have the enemy do more ap damage than ad. And on average its usually pretty even with ap being about 15% less. Since we have 100 armor items I wouldn't mind 75 Mr items. Void staff gives as much % mpen as last whisper does.

But then introduce another % magic pen item like this one: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Wu1ziN4k-ap-bruiser-equivalent-to-black-cleaver?comment=0005 Go ahead thumb it down sum more. You can stop a man from dreaming,

Actually calling Ludens more OP than a vlad ult that did 15% of a targets max hp on top of damage amp.

Please

Forgive me if I'm not convinced that an item with a 15% AP scaling is stronger than a 15% MAX HEALTH nuke with a simultaneous 20% damage amplification. My personal feelings about the lack of skill of people who say Kat is OP aside, if Luden's really is an issue, it's an issue on champions that are overpowered already, NOT on every champion.

DFG was shitty and added extra burst to champions who didnt need more burst.

I'd take Luden's anyday over that bullshit.

Ofc people will not say any bad thing after dead. It happens on LoL too. As example, Warwick with Feral was disgustingly OP and people cried as hell on boards. God knows that how I'm bored to see stupid WW OP please nerf topics. After nerf, people is like '' Oh no WW was balanced it was only feral why you overnerfed him oh no (overnerf = %52 winrate) ''.

It is happining on DFG now. The most hated item in the history got love after its removing. Believe or not Luden's Echo is much healthier than DFG. You can't complain about it. You can't argument about it.

I'm not saying Luden's Echo is not OP but some people as original poster exaggerate Luden's Echo's power for more cogency.

but.. I thought Mordekaiser es numero uno

What i really dont understand is that DFG was an item that was supposed to make AP carries able to be useful against the extremely high HP tanks who made your spell combos feel useless. But they removed DFG because it was too effective even on non-tanks. They added ludens to replace DFG. But ludens is even MORE overpowered against non-tanks than DFG was. Seems a little hypocritical. It really needs to deal %HP damage, to make it more useful against tanks, and less useful against blowing up squishy people. Something like "When you have 100 charges, your next spell will deal 3% + 1% per 200AP max HP damage." This would end up with somewhere around 5-8% HP damage when ludens procs. Which would do about 120 damage to adcs, but somewhere around 250-350 bonus damage to someone with higher HP.

What makes this worse, is that its hard to get high magic resist nowadays. If you decide to build two MR items, you wont have enough armor to deal with all the botrk users, and one MR item only gives about 50~ MR now. Its actually really easy to get 50+ magic pen on any champion with the right items. On a fiddlesticks, you can get over 75 flat magic pen, with a void staff, that renders almost all magic resist in the game useless. You will do true damage to anyone who has less than 110~ magic resist.

Intended I guess. Champs like Ahri or LB or Kat who can never get hit by a skillshot get a massive buff through this item and they keep turning every Q in the game into a skillshot for another added buff, while guys like Morde or Vei get the middle finger.

I guess mobile AP assassins are league's mages for ghostcrawler.

luden echoe is so bad designed, because you can check thread about luden echoe when it was not realeased. It make cancer champ more cancer. Nidalee spear just gained 0.15ap+100damage. and it's true, 6month later, cancer champ are really more cancer

I have yet to face a Ludens user more obnoxious than a Ziggs. Luden's makes him completely uncatchable and inescapble. And since any spell can trigger it, you can get bursted out of nowhere by a satchel charge, or stepping on 1 mine that does like 500 damage.

Way to reward pussy play and champs that support that playstyle even more. Ziggs, Nidalee. Xerath, etc...

Dfg can only be used once every 90 seconds and had a short range. Ludens can proc multiple times in a fight and can usually be used every time you want to use a rotation. On champs with spam abilities its even stronger. It also has the same max range as the max range of your spells so its super frustrating on poke champions + it gives waveclear. Replacing a stupid item because its being abused with an even worse stupid item that's being abused, is dumb. On the subject of stupid items they removed dfg because it "lacks counterplay", meanwhile Zhonyas still has the ability to negate entire champions kits if used correctly.

I agree. I find Luden's far more obnoxious than DFG ever was, at least the DFG I saw in season 4, since that's when I started playing. At least with DFG, the enemy had to be decently close to me to use it, and they still had to remember to use it and you could only use it every so often because of it's coolown. Ludens has none of those flaws; any spell will proc is regardless of range, whether it's a Nidalee spear, Katarina Q, or even a Ziggs or Xerath ult. It requires no extra imput to use, so it's basically some extra poke or burst that happens pretty regularly, since it actually charges pretty quickly. What's worse is that not only does it serve to make poke champions like Nidalee, Xerath, and Ziggs do even more damage, Luden's also gives quite a bit of MS as well, so good luck actually managing to close the distance on them.

Do teemo's shrooms activate luden's?

As someone who plays mids like Kat and ahri if you think DFG is easier to deal with then I would love it back :D