Why does Lux's E cost 130 mana?

ZzEslIolZQ·Mar 13, 2015·92 votes·5,378 views

101 Comments

RaptameiMar 13, 201572 votes

Do you know how much photon pressure it takes to deflect moving matter?

HeWolfMar 14, 201510 votes

Lux Touché, summoner.

disregardableMar 13, 201549 votes

Because pre-nerf Chalice.

Kitten of EvilMar 13, 201539 votes

Because Athene's used to give her almost unlimited mana, and a 130 mana cost was reasonable back then.

BakedLotionMar 13, 201521 votes

Why can cass spam e on minion waves and STILL GAIN MANA BACK Meanwhile lux cant clear waves. Has to spend 130 mana and auto everything once or 3x on melee minions to even clear

JunkοMar 13, 20155 votes

Lux damage is instant, Cass damage is DoT and is only spammable if she can keep her poison up. Also Cass damage for the most part is single target damage (yeah her Q and W are AoE, but they are really undertuned while her E is WAY overtuned)

Overall, they are 2 entirely different champions. Better comparison would be somebody like Xerath

SoriokuMar 13, 20154 votes

Cass's E is also instant. But I do agree on the xerath thing

BakedLotionMar 14, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAudwsIB,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-03-13T22:21:25.742+0000)

Lux damage is instant, Cass damage is DoT and is only spammable if she can keep her poison up. Also Cass damage for the most part is single target damage (yeah her Q and W are AoE, but they are really undertuned while her E is WAY overtuned)

Overall, they are 2 entirely different champions. Better comparison would be somebody like Xerath

She clears waves insanely fast LOL are u high Q and W the casters + melee minions thne spam e. You clear it in like 3 seconds at most, and gain or break even on mana.

Meanwhile lux takes half her mana pool to half- clear

JunkοMar 14, 20152 votes

Cass clears it FAST, not INSTANT and it requires you to break your Q and E keys

Lux with 1 full item can clear a wave INSTANTLY by pressing E+Q

ULTRAF0RCEMar 14, 20151 votes

why are you using your only defensive ability to clear waves.

JevelFaithfulMar 14, 20151 votes

Technically there's shield, but I agree. Using Q to clear wave should only be done if the jungle is known to be on the other side of the map or if you're leaving lane right after. Or if you're feeling really ballsy

BakedLotionMar 14, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAudwsIB,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-14T11:46:28.850+0000)

Cass clears it FAST, not INSTANT and it requires you to break your Q and E keys

Lux with 1 full item can clear a wave INSTANTLY by pressing E+Q

Q only hits 2 minions LOL wtf. And it does half damage on the second target

You never Q a minion wave...

I main lux, and i can tell you by experience that her E cant one shot caster minions in any point of the game unless you have like a 6k gold advantage Let alone melee minions.

JunkοMar 14, 20151 votes

Neither can any of Cass's abilities one shot a minion wave, you need to spam them, and then you gain maybe 2/5 of the mana back. Lux E+AA's to proc her passive can kill the minion wave quite fast, at 1-2 items her E will one shot caster minions.

BakedLotionMar 15, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hurny Quilva,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAudwsIB,comment-id=000300000001000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-14T22:44:18.129+0000)

Neither can any of Cass's abilities one shot a minion wave, you need to spam them, and then you gain maybe 2/5 of the mana back. Lux E+AA's to proc her passive can kill the minion wave quite fast, at 1-2 items her E will one shot caster minions.

No, it wont lol

Silents429Mar 14, 20157 votes

Wait what? Since when can't she clear waves? I never had problems doing it with E and hitting the 1 or 2 minions left.

TastyMmmYumMar 14, 201511 votes

Since season 5. In season 4 you could clear the caster creeps with grail and deathcap, which meant you could do it 1 or 2 levels later than other wave clear mids. Not unreasonable. If you fell behind though, you wouldn't do it until much much later. When minions got MR removed and a health buff in season 5, and now with another slight health buff in patch 5.5, Lux's "just barely" wave clear turned into no wave clear at all. Now even with deathcap you can't clear even the back line. Not a single creep.

E just does poor damage compared to other wave clear abilities even though it has the highest mana cost out of any of them and the highest cooldown. 10 sec cd, 130 mana, 240 base dmg and 60% ap scaling. Ziggs, Xerath, Syndra, Orianna all have cheaper, lower cooldown, higher damaging waveclear. Check the numbers for yourself.

Silents429Mar 14, 20154 votes

While I don't agree on the mana cost, I unlike everyone else have yet to have waveclear problems with Lux.

Maybe it is because I max E first instead of Q or W like most Lux players.

EvilRabbittMar 14, 20151 votes

I'm probably a scrub but I usually Morello + ROA/Archangel (one or other, not both) on any mana heavy Mages. So when I lux supported a bit back, I had 40% cdr and used my ult on every minion wave. It cost next to nothing because by the time it was off cd, I had my mana from it back. That and the wave was JUST returning. Again, I'm probably a scrub- but thats my post-6 waveclear method. Similar to Ra in Smite, use ult with enough cdr/mana on every minion wave for easy money. You have peel =), laser is capable of being stalled for wave or engages.

WydiwygMar 14, 20154 votes

I lux supported a bit back, I had 40% cdr and used my ult on every minion wave.

item 3070

JevelFaithfulMar 14, 20151 votes

Altought the use of it as support is... dodgy, I hope you didn't actually kill any minions. Ulting the wave works well ifyou need pushing power more than temafight or burst.

EvilRabbittMar 14, 20153 votes

That was the idea. We needed to push mid at the time and they were all mia doing buffs or something. I just kept ulting the wave off mid til they got there, then used it to ult 50% wave 50% team. =D Towers shall not fall when Lux is around.

JevelFaithfulMar 14, 20151 votes

Worth it then.

OJ191Mar 14, 201510 votes

{quoted}

While I don't agree on the mana cost, I unlike everyone else have yet to have waveclear problems with Lux.

Maybe it is because I max E first instead of Q or W like most Lux players.

~~Most~~ all lux players max E first... there is no reason not to and in fact many reasons to do so.

{quoted}

Lucent Singularity makes laning against Lux as any form of melee a living hell. She can use it as a potent zoning tool that doesn't even have to push the wave if placed over her own minions, and by the way, it chunks for a really big amount if you go in to CS.

Zed can't safely CS against that unless he blows his spells, which makes him open to poke. Talon, etc can't get in range to last hit without getting chunked. Other champs need to blow mana/cooldowns in order to deal with this ability.

Then there's the fact that while you're slowed, Lux can freely proc her passive, follow up with Q, and leave you in a miserable spot in lane against her.

not sure if actually retarded, or just terrible as zed/against lux

BakedLotionMar 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

While I don't agree on the mana cost, I unlike everyone else have yet to have waveclear problems with Lux.

Maybe it is because I max E first instead of Q or W like most Lux players.

No one maxes Q or W on Lux. It's always E Q W lol

Silents429Mar 14, 20151 votes

Then no idea how no one is able to clear minion waves with it.

High scaling and base damage.

BakedLotionMar 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Then no idea how no one is able to clear minion waves with it.

High scaling and base damage.

Because 240 base and 60% is high scaling LOL #bronzelogic

Silents429Mar 15, 20151 votes

Mid game when a Lux will have about 300AP thats another 180AP added to it.

Late game with about 800+ AP that's 480 extra AP on her E

Meaning her late game E is going to be dealing 720 or more damage.

Now disclaimer, I don't think her E should cost 130 mana considering it costs more then most Ultimates in the game.

But Lux's waveclear is far from the worst of the immobile mages in this game, especially since mid/late she can just toss her ult down mid and clear the entire wave with a 30 second ult.

Early game with a rank 3 E I can kill all caster minions and AA the melee ones. I say that is good wave clear, in comparison to someone like Swain

Good waveclear doesn't just mean she can 1 shot the wave it implies she doesn't have to use half her abilities and spend extra time in lane trying to clear a wave. Or god forbid get stuck having to sit and AA a minion a few times.

No it's when she can E or ult a wave and take it down within 5 seconds without having to wasting all her abilities.

BakedLotionMar 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Mid game when a Lux will have about 300AP thats another 180AP added to it.

Late game with about 800+ AP that's 480 extra AP on her E

Meaning her late game E is going to be dealing 720 or more damage.

Now disclaimer, I don't think her E should cost 130 mana considering it costs more then most Ultimates in the game.

But Lux's waveclear is far from the worst of the immobile mages in this game, especially since mid/late she can just toss her ult down mid and clear the entire wave with a 30 second ult.

Early game with a rank 3 E I can kill all caster minions and AA the melee ones. I say that is good wave clear, in comparison to someone like

Good waveclear doesn't just mean she can 1 shot the wave it implies she doesn't have to use half her abilities and spend extra time in lane trying to clear a wave. Or god forbid get stuck having to sit and AA a minion a few times.

No it's when she can E or ult a wave and take it down within 5 seconds without having to wasting all her abilities.

Except minion hp scales much harder than your E does and since you said mid game you'll have 180 damage added to it with 300 ap?

Minions scale to like 450-500 mid game. And thats just the caster minions. Your e will only be doing like 420(lel) damage mid game, which isnt enough.

Silents429Mar 15, 20151 votes

Then I hate to disappoint you because it is more then enough, and I have always found her E really strong.

BakedLotionMar 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Then I hate to disappoint you because it is more then enough, and I have always found her E really strong.

You also don't main lux and I do, so... I'm pretty sure how her E works with minions. And it doesn't oneshot casters.

Hard PenetratorMar 13, 201514 votes

Because long range, high AOE dmg, utility skill. Just like Ori W. It needs to have some downsides.

TastyMmmYumMar 14, 201515 votes

Except it's not as good as Orianna W. Orianna W has a lower cooldown, lower mana cost, bigger slow, higher base damage, higher ap scaling, also gives vision through her ball, and in addition gives allies movement speed too. The slow field is left behind after the damage so you can have both, whereas once you detonate Lux E for the damage you give up the slow.

And even if Orianna's W didn't already waveclear on its own due to the higher base damage and ap scaling, Ori can throw her ball around and wave clear that way. Lux has no other wave clear abilities, her E doesn't even clear the casters, and it is on a 10 second cooldown. So she basically doesn't wave clear at this point.

DanofDemaciaMar 14, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAudwsIB,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-03-13T22:25:01.540+0000)

Because long range, high AOE dmg, utility skill. Just like Ori W. It needs to have some downsides.

High damage? Its low cant clear caster mininons. , high utility? its a slow or damage not really both at the same time and oriannas also speads up allies.. The range you got me on and also lux is gated by here cds she doesnt need mana problems.

EvilRabbittMar 14, 20152 votes

Orianna W- need to be near ball, to reposition ball pay at least 50 mana. To use W pay 70+ (dependent on rank). In total, 120 mana minimum and a fairly long basic skill cd. If she can W you, you are long dead. The ball is death, dodge the ball.

Lux E- same mana cost (by the time its all said and done) roughly, is a single less telegraphed cast, does significantly less damage and has vastly less utility. Unlike Orianna and Ball, getting hit by E is garbage. Sure, a brief slow and its got a small aoe zone. Damage is mediocre: 240 base with 60% ratio, for real?

Tl;DR: Bad comparison and I totally agree to reduce the mana cost. That or raise the base damage (not scaling). For 130 mana, I can blitz grab/punch you.

RavenHuskyMar 13, 201510 votes

Riot, why is Ziggs getting his mana costs reduced and not Lux?

SpicayMar 14, 20158 votes

Why does any non-ultimate ability cost over 100 to begin with?

AbiwonKenabiMar 14, 20153 votes

This is just what I was thinking. I saw someone request a buff to 110 mana cost and I was like "wtf that's a buff?" Only other ability I can think that is that high is Nami's Ebb and Flow, and that doubles as a double heal/damage, also proccing her passive.

Lux is an obvious victim of the Athene nerfs, perhaps moreso than any other champion. She's balanced around having an item that makes her mana regen insane, which it no longer does.

AbyssionKnightMar 14, 20157 votes

Because obviously her E is more powerful than most ultimates (including her own). Duh.

AraniiMar 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Because obviously her E is more powerful than most ultimates (including her own). Duh.

How is it more powerful? Compared to her own ult, it has lower base, lower scaling, higher cost, less potential AoE, and it doesn't proc her passive. Her E isn't in the best state right now.

QuortMar 14, 20154 votes

It was a sarcastic joke. o_o

jv21blU7oDMar 14, 20156 votes

I do think lowering the mana cost would be reasonable at this point.

SleepyLionCubMar 14, 20156 votes

Because the EXTREME POKE DAMAGE, and CRIPPLING SLOW, and her GIANT AP SCALING PASSIVE

TruthtellerMar 14, 20154 votes

You mean Xerath ?

EvilRabbittMar 14, 20151 votes

You call Diana ?

KaisadiIIaMar 15, 20151 votes

Diana extreme poke damage?

EvilRabbittMar 15, 20151 votes

GIANT AP SCALING PASSIVE! HER CRIPPLING SLOW! THAT ANNOYING EXTREME POKE DAMAGE!

So broken. Rito nerf mages, clearly the world is not ready for them.

Leu07Mar 14, 20152 votes

I don't think comparing lux to cass is a good idea. Xerath or Ziggs would be better comparisons to lux since they fit the long range aoe mage just as lux.

ThumpinMar 14, 20151 votes

Because:

Land snare > E > Ult > Dead squishy.

FooDangMar 14, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR Manimal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAudwsIB,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2015-03-14T06:39:13.483+0000)

Because:

Land snare > E > AA + ignite > Ult + pop E > AA > Dead squishy.

Fixed it

KaisadiIIaMar 15, 20152 votes

Does someone run Ignite with Lux over Barrier/Exhaust?