Daily reminder Meddler nerfed Swain cause win rate

ZzEslIolZQ··151 votes·5,924 views

But not Ahri. Confirmed meddler plays Ahri/Zed and got spanked by a Swain and was like "wow so OP".

155 Comments

FistOfSharkiesha50 votes

Nerfing Swain is one thing, but nerfing Swain and then nerfing the reason he was nerfed is just so stupid. This has happened countless times to champions like Mordekaiser and Kassadin. Riot doesn't give a fuck what we want or think, or what makes sense.

Shloonz3 votes

This is what happens often :/

DeusVult15 votes

The best part was that they nerfed him because "deathfire/corrupting potion makes him too strong" then they nerf his W snare duration, which has almost nothing to do with how those changes effected him, it just made it so that in the rare case he landed it he could escape a gank

Then they nerfed deathfire and didnt go back to look at Swain

A Miss Fortune13 votes

Riot's balance team has absolutely no intention of really balancing the game. They just want the game to be enjoyable for the most part but even then they're extremely underperforming.

Sometimes I just wonder what Riot's balance team actually does for work. I'm assuming they work typically 4 - 5 days of the week and work typically 8 - 12 hours on the days they do work, but what do they actually do?

Sorry but I don't think it takes me 8 hours to figure out "hmm, Tahm with 6 Warmogs able to one shot people doesn't seem quite right.". Remind me again why almost all of Riot's balance team is Bronze 5 - Silver 5.

Abyssphere11 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=px6AU3yO,comment-id=00080002,timestamp=2016-01-02T21:59:40.158+0000)

Riot's balance team has absolutely no intention of really balancing the game. They just want the game to be enjoyable for the most part but even then they're extremely underperforming.

Sometimes I just wonder what Riot's balance team actually does for work. I'm assuming they work typically 4 - 5 days of the week and work typically 8 - 12 hours on the days they do work, but what do they actually do?

Sorry but I don't think it takes me 8 hours to figure out "hmm, Tahm with 6 Warmogs able to one shot people doesn't seem quite right.". Remind me again why almost all of Riot's balance team is Bronze 5 - Silver 5.

Since when is the vast majority of Riot's balance team Bronze?

A Miss Fortune7 votes

A number of them are Bronze last time I checked. I know for a fact a majority of their balance team is Silver.

But do you really need me to explain the competence of the balance team when they nerfed Karthus and Swain almost at the same time they said Tahm's damage is fine as long as "his stickiness is low".

HighH19 votes

They are Silver and Bronze but talk as if they're Diamond+

A Miss Fortune13 votes

It doesn't matter what elo they play in, I've seen plenty of Silver players who know more about balance than Diamond players. While the Diamond players tend to be better players in general it doesn't necessarily mean that they know more about balance.

The upsetting part is that people who handle delicate parts of the game aren't even able to climb to at least Gold or Platinum yet say that they only judge the game's balance from higher elo. The balance team really is saddening to see when other parts of Riot like their skins team are usually doing outstanding with great skins such as Demon Vi, or their player behavior is effectively limiting toxicity, dodging, and accepting feedback. Meanwhile the balance team just nerfed Karthus and said Tahm's damage is fine.

S H A Y C 04 votes

Lets forget about elo for a second..since you seem to think riot balance team is doing a swell job.

explain the swain nerf to me. tell me why an obscure champion doing moderately well for a single patch is nerfed instantly, but #lcsbigplays champions that need looked at are scrutinized over very carefully to make sure they arent over nerfed out of the meta? I am not going to start naming champions because it turns into a qq thread and we wont even talk about what matters here.

Riot balances around their pro scene and what they think fans want to watch, whats "cool" on the big screen. So warwick isnt going to be allowed in top tier, because hes not exciting and swain will never be allowed to dominate because waddling while crows bite people is boring. Dashing and blowing people up, now thats excitement! so we will make sure all that is tip top of the heep, wombo combo dunking action will always be meta and #lcsbigplays will be the balance point.

The problem with this is it takes a lot of shine away from the players...no one watches lcs to see riven play...they watch lcs to see Faker play riven. They want to see Bjergson play yasuo...if they just wanted to see yasuo play they could open up youtube and see any number of no names just play yasuo, but thats not why lcs matches have the appeal they do.

Riot you have lost your way, and move forward towards the wrong direction for the wrong reasons.

A Miss Fortune4 votes

I've never said that Riot was doing a good job? They're doing the opposite and I pretty much just said that a few posts above. They clearly don't understand the concept of balance and I'm pretty sure most community members could balance the game better and make it more fun at the same time.

GeorgeKnightRT3 votes

you really think that rioters or any other office workers have enough time to spend on laddering ?

A Miss Fortune5 votes

I mean they're obviously not doing work so you think they would all just be league and chilling lol.

this pbe is blank af

Spaceman5pff1 votes

The PBE is blank AF right now PROBABLY because RIOT gave employees a well deserved holiday break! Let them enjoy their Xmas / Holidays / Snowdown / Feast of Winter Veil. Hell man, even DURING THE HOLIDAYS this company still pushed out a teaser for who the f*$& knows what!

Zoom out man, look at the big picture! and maybe, just for once

relax.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

That is the total opposite of my personality and thoughts, of course during holidays such as Christmas it's _okay _ to "relax" but as long as there is progress to be made then I see no reason to use something like Snowdown as an excuse to remain lazy and underperforming.

Even if they did take a break from their jobs it's no excuse as to why we haven't had any meaningful updates to League, being in one of the most unbalanced and boring states I've ever seen it in, in about a month or so.

Jeddy01719 votes

Hmmmm,why does that Sejuani sound Sion so familiar item 1401 ?

Joe Dredd2 votes

neither sion nor sejuani were bad after nerfs or right now fight me about it

XIII Vanitas11 votes

Sejuani I'm still item 3151.

Raid Boss Morde12 votes

Actually, Swain got nerfed because he's been strong for a long time, he's just underplayed. Similar to Brand! Brand has ALWAYS been a great champion, but ever since the new masteries, people finally realized that he's good.

Here's another one: Sejuani...

She was always a great champion, lots of strengths, amazing teamfights, but mediocre clears. No one really played her, but she was always a good champion. As soon as Cinderhulk was released, people realized that she's actually very good. She did get nerfed, but she still does what she's best at; teamfights.

kaltenashes11 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA/52714

seems to me he likes to play Janna

anyway rage at people and make stupid accusations isnt gonna revert the nerf

YCitizenSnipsY5 votes

Don't you come trying to break up a good ole fashion circle jerk with your logic, don't you know where you are? This is the boards we don't use logic around here. /s

SociopathFriend3 votes

That... is indeed a lot of Janna.

Cloth Armor10 votes

Riot only would make changes to the sport because it is what is best for the sport.

Vistha Kai20 votes

Delusional way of thinking.

Pikmints15 votes

I'd say optimistic, but still a little right. What's best for the sport isn't inherently what's best for the player.

I don't see a connection between game health and their intent to make games shorter this season. If anything, it reduces the potential for comebacks and reduces the effectiveness of late buffs like 5th dragon because most games end before a team is able to get it. Couple this with towers falling faster than before and suddenly champs that rely heavily on farm to succeed are in a much worse spot this season, despite them not being a problem before.

There were multiple threads when the tank meta popped up a few months ago praising Riot for the state the game was in, the people against it mostly being marksmen mains. People didn't praise Riot during the assassin meta, the marksman meta, but the tank meta is what felt fair. Aside from the standard reasoning of "cut off the top of the power curve", Riot provided almost no explanation for why the nerfs went through the way they did. Riot's also incredibly unwilling to buff the tank related objects because "we like to shift the window of popular champions", yet the versatile monster of Lee Sin has almost never lost his fervor and Zed (and other assassins) is getting a shiny new item despite already being picked one of the most picked champs currently (alongside other currently strong champs like Rengar).

Finally, it's in Riot's best interest to keep the hype for this game going as strong as it is. If it ever reached a stable point, after a while people would think that the game would feel repetitive, strategies would become stale, and the fanbase for the game would start to drop. Something always needs to change even if the game's in a good state in order to prevent that. So while Riot does do what's "best for the sport" that doesn't equate to being what's best for the player.

Vistha Kai12 votes

How is making half of the playerbase mad over their terrible decisions going to help the sport?

Sport can't exist without players and right now they are doing their best to lose players.

Biffolo12 votes

Because half the playerbase doesn't play the game correctly. Hell, 98% of players don't utilize the tools in the game, and as such aren't playing properly.

Narasimha7 votes

Which half? The 'half' on the boards? Which is really like 1/10 of the playerbase, if even that? Or the 'half' that 'knows' what they're talking about? That's an even smaller fraction.

At the end of the day, the biggest group of people are the ones that don't care. As long as they can play their game, and it isn't ridiculously broken, they're satisfied.

BluePolarizer3 votes

because most players are not plat+ and do not utilize all the tools in the game to their fullest extent.

only when players stop refusing to utilize all tools given and to stop making terribad judgments will there be a good discussion on balance. however as long as the game is balanced to look good rather than play good that can't happen since the objective of changes is no longer balance.

YCitizenSnipsY1 votes

Doubt they made Half the player base mad over the swain changes when only 1% of ranked players even played him before the preseason changes. Or are we over rating the broads and their impact on the community again?

Vistha Kai3 votes

This goes beyond Swain, but I'd expect for people like you to understand without serving it on a silver plate.

I was wrong.

Rozzeta1 votes

Yeah... Remember the Juggernaut rework they pushed right before their world championship? The one with Mordekaiser being picked/banned in all games?

Cloth Armor1 votes

i remember it. It was the best thing for the sport. Why else would riot do it. all they did in was give everyone else something to talk about while watching hour long pregame shows for a sporting event. It gave people a story line, what juggernauts make it into LSC, will mort get through the ban phase? stay tuned for an hour and find out!

you guys don't see the disconnect between making the former game league of legends fun and balanced, VS doing what is best for the ESPORT. they pushed mort out for the tune of 1 billion dollars!!! yea baby!!! ESPORTS

Rozzeta5 votes

If anything, the imbalance that was Morde in the World championship, forcing second pick to either ban it or see it picked by the enemy team, demonstrated why an e-sport can't really be taken seriously, as lack of balance in the game can help one overcome an enemy more skilled than you.

Not only that. If they did it intentionally in order to give something for people to talk about, it would mean they are not concerned with the balance and fair play of their oun game, in exchange for popularity gained out of controversy. They would have gone against more than 4 years of work they invested building the professional circuit, in clear disrespect of both the players and the viewers. So I really hope you're wrong, and it was just a mistake on their part.

ParaBellam10 votes

LeeSin What Zed do Ahri you Vayne mean?

Riot buffs the stupidest champs and nerfs the ones that are/were balanced. I still think that Trundle is balanced, and that Swain was almost at the right point of balance.

Rico Nasty2 votes

Idk man Trundle was pretty fucking strong before his nerf. I do think he is balanced right now though.

IAMS4T4N8 votes

{quoted}

LeeSin What Zed do Ahri you Vayne mean?

Riot buffs the stupidest champs and nerfs the ones that are/were balanced. I still think that Trundle is balanced, and that Swain was almost at the right point of balance.

lolwut Trundle is broken as hell

BluePolarizer14 votes

Trundle is strong because of the meta. He is incredibly weak in fast moving mobile fights and strong in immobile arena style fights.

TheI3igDaddy2 votes

Yes, Trundle is known for being "The Absolute Last Champ You Should Fistfight"

Sevixys3 votes

Same with Swain

Jasiwel9 votes

Riot nerfed Swain because they saw him as a timebomb. Unfortunately, like Hecarim, they nerfed him in a way that makes him exceptionally clunky to play rather than toning down the actual factors causing their concerns.

However, it is considerably irritating to see other champions in the mage class consistently do better and have no problems avoiding the nerf bat. I don't even play Swain either, but I sympathize with Swain players because this is exactly what happened to Viktor.

Cloth Armor3 votes

how many cosplayers make headlines with swain or viktor costumes? how many with arhi. ESPORTS! popstar Arhi is better for ESPORTS!

Jasiwel4 votes

I actually have a friend IRL that cosplayed as Swain. But you're right, even men dress as Ahri.

Cloth Armor2 votes

if you google esports cosplay the first 5 pictures have ahri in them. ESPORTS!!!!

Jasiwel8 votes

YOU LIED TO ME. I JUST SEE NERDS.

Streetlight Man3 votes

AND THEY ARE NAKED

Oh, wait, gotta adjust the safe search.

LankPants2 votes

Riot nerfed Swain because they saw him as a timebomb.

"One day this champion might see play, therefore we must nerf it now, rather than champions who currently hold greater than 20% pick rates"

This line of thinking just doesn't make sense to me. If you want to make an argument that Swain's an oppressive champ and shouldn't be popular I'm OK with that. You have to apply that logic consistently across all champs though, Zed and Yas are both oppressive champs who are allowed to be powerful and popular, shouldn't we at least wait until Swain is a popular champ to deal with him and deal with the oppressive champs who already are popular first?

Jasiwel2 votes

What makes me scratch my head is that Riot nerfed the part of his kit least associated with what was making him overbearing (his DoT doing more through DFT). By nerfing his W, metaphorically speaking, they took the cane away from the hobbling bird-man; It usually expires against a good opponent before he can hobble to them.

It's even worse when he's easier to itemize against than Zed. ADCs are ridiculously powerful right now, so item 3033 is already a potentiall powerful item later, and Morellonomicon is a core-build item on most mages. It's even funnier when Mortal Reminder was rarely built during Swain's peak and ADC/AD mains would complain that he was too strong. That didn't even mention Merc Treads and a buffed Hexdrinker/Merc Scimitar.

Then there's the fact that Brand was relatively left unscathed despite being strong for the exact same reason (DFT). His mana costs were slightly nerfed and he is still having a relatively good Winrate-Pickrate (54%W-9%P) ratio where Swain hardly reaches 49%W-2%P. Then again, Brand actually loses to Ahri statistically, so maybe we're not too far from the conspiracy tree on this one given Swain was a renowned counterpick for Ahri and Zed.

My point is mostly that Riot handled the situation poorly, just as they did with Hecarim and Viktor. I don't want to call favoritism because it's insulting to the respective designers/teams, which I don't want to insult any of them under any sane circumstance, but they seem to really bare down hard on certain champions more than others that are easily proving to be more successful. It becomes more irritating when those same successful champions are seeing more buffs than nerfs because their popularity goes above 15% for more than a few patches.

Decrit8 votes

"Also, Meddler is of balance like Ghostcrawler were of World of Warcraft"

-Boards 2016

Dominick Destine7 votes

I can't believe I'm saying this but.... I wish we were in Morello era instead of Meddler era.

Ahristocats3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=px6AU3yO,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2016-01-03T17:54:42.337+0000)

I can't believe I'm saying this but.... I wish we were in Morello era instead of Meddler era.

morello era was only nerfing, but at least he was nerfing the right champs, people got mad at his because he always nerfed irelia yet she is still stupid.

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