Riot will nerf every champ in the game before they admit the item changes were poorly thought out

ZzEslIolZQ·Dec 8, 2015·51 votes·1,983 views

RIP Karthus.

36 Comments

Bears Dont CareDec 8, 201517 votes

And refuse to revert nerfs under the belief that it creates meaningful decisions

UrPalAlDec 9, 20155 votes

If this is pointing at people like Sejuani, fuck that, first off, her win-rate is fine (like 56% I think after over 150 games played, which is above average), so don't even complain about that shit.

MrWasjigDec 9, 20156 votes

He's not wrong though, regardless of who it's about.

MEMEME670Dec 9, 20151 votes

He's wrong because it's not just some random belief, it's provable fact.

UrPalAlDec 10, 20151 votes

He is. The reason they don't revert nerfs (as stated by Riot) is because they took things away from their kit because they saw it as toxic or stupid. For example, Warwicks W used to be up by the time the cooldown was up, meaning his W was essentially infinite late game, they never reverted this nerf even after he became weaker because they saw it as a stupid addition to his kit that made no sense (which is true).

Another example is Jayce's W, they lowered his Hyper Charges bonus damage from 130% to 110% because Jayce used to be able to get to like almost 10k crits (3 of them if they all crit). Sure, Jayce is kinda weak now, but I can bet you that if they buff him, they aren't going to buff his W.

MrWasjigDec 10, 20151 votes

But those are two cases in which the nerfs made sense due to, as you said, unhealthy and archaic nonsense.

In some cases a champion is nerfed because of an item or mastery or whatever, then they also nerf the mastery but leave the champion statistically weaker as a result.

I don't see the strategic diversity in that because all it does is make you think "Well this champion isn't as good as they once were, cross them off the list and find someone to replace them". Strategic Diversity (fuck I hate that stupid buzzphrase) should mean you have a CHOICE. Not being shoehorned into a decision because nothing else seems to be worth it.

UrPalAlDec 10, 20151 votes

True, but even in some of those cases, we find that a revert is still not required. For example if I said right now that "since Devourer got nerfed on ranged champs, we should give Kayle 5 AD back", would you be against it? Because right now Kayle is actually still in a very solid spot, and actually sits well at a 60% win-rate on " Over 150+ Games" (which is the most accurate statistic as it represents her win-rate among players who have mastered the champion and can use it to their full potential).

The same, by the way, also applies to Sejuani.

MrWasjigDec 10, 20151 votes

But that's 5AD on a champion that barely saw play prior to Devourer. It was only because Devourer synergised stupidly well on Kayle that she was picked up in Jungle at all. Prior to that she was not only underplayed, but never played in Jungle.

Not to mention that 5AD wasn't what sent her over the top. If it was then it would have been chopped off prior to Devourer. Like so many nerfs before it that 5AD was done because an external factor made the champion too strong. The external factor was nerfed, and the champion was left as they were.

It's just happened to Brand, Swain, Anivia and Malzahar as well (Though let's be honest 10Mana on Pillar of Flame, what a joke considering Brand is running far more rampant than the other three right now) And they didn't even nerf the other 3 in ways that affected how they interact with DFT. They nerfed Malz's %HP damage on his W (Which is bigger than it looks given he's one of the few AP's left who can do that). Swain had his CC nerfed and Anivia had chill nerfed. Chill doesn't even do anything on it's own! Not that I wanted them to be nerfed in any other way (in fact I didn't want them nerfed at all) But the nerfs don't even target what's making them strong with DFT.

UrPalAlDec 11, 20151 votes

5 AD was never what sent Kayle overboard, I was comparing her to Sejuani where they got attention for being broken because of an item, and nerfed on top of that, and were left with the nerf when the item was nerfed. I'm saying that Kayle and Sejuani were fine anyways. You can bandwagon all you want, but Sejuani and Kayle's statistics show that they are not only doing fine, but actually thriving right now.

So why don't they feel OP? Because they aren't very popular or fun to play. It's the same concept for why Lee Sin is so annoyingly popular despite being considered relatively balanced by anyone with half a brain cell. That's what I meant.

Full BrainDec 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He is. The reason they don't revert nerfs (as stated by Riot) is because they took things away from their kit because they saw it as toxic or stupid.

If that was really their policy they would have to remove Yasuo from the game completely.

UrPalAlDec 12, 20151 votes

Except that Yasuo isn't OP at all, if you don't know how to lane against him, I'm sorry, that really sucks. Because here's the thing, his win-rate for 125+ games is 47.8%, which is actually REALLY, REALLY bad for a champion. Yasuo is actually quite under-powered right now.

Full BrainDec 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except that Yasuo isn't OP at all, if you don't know how to lane against him, I'm sorry, that really sucks. Because here's the thing, his win-rate for 125+ games is 47.8%, which is actually REALLY, REALLY bad for a champion. Yasuo is actually quite under-powered right now.

I never said he is OP. Your reading comprehension is so low that you can't even understand the meaning of your own thoughts.

UrPalAlDec 12, 20151 votes

Sorry, but that's kind of been my assumption for most people who comment at all about Yasuo.

To stay on topic a bit more, yeah, Yasuo's play style is annoying, but it also has it's clear weaknesses, which is mainly the reason his kit remains largely intact. An example of a time when change was needed was back when his E charged up his flow, since his shield was always up. Had Yasuo become complete shit and in need a buff (for whatever reason), that change would never be reverted anyways because the shield was ridiculous and toxic.

qetzelDec 9, 20157 votes

They knew this would happen.

They changed the items for a reason - to get them all to the same efficiency - and knew that they would have to adjust individual champions afterwards.

This isn't a significant problem this time 'round. Past issues like this they were tuning both champions and items, meaning some champions were effectively overnerfed. This time they will only adjust the champions, as adjusting the items would go against the reason for the change in the first case. Karthus, and others like him, are unlikely to be "double nerfed".

ProfDrDeathDec 8, 20156 votes

Hey, a novel thought for you:

What if it is just your opinion that the item changes were poorly thought out? What if Riot know what they are doing, basing their moves on data analysis and highest elo feedback, and those indicate that the changes are a step in the right direction, but need follow-up balance changes?

And what if I told you that a slight nerf does not mean a champion is getting gutted?

DeliothDec 9, 20151 votes

This guy, he gets it.

BluePolarizerDec 12, 20151 votes

pros have said that this season is so imbalanced that they can't even evaluate it properly. How high elo is high elo? Well, it's supposedly plat+. I'm part of plat+. There is no justification for Hecarim's recent nerfs.

RipReviveFkRitoDec 9, 20155 votes

Preach it brothers and sisters item 3070 Karthus

Chaotic ReksDec 9, 20151 votes

but if i preach it, everyone will die...

TotalJerkDec 9, 20155 votes

I don't understand that how under their current philosophies they'd push so many changes that are so polarizing that over half the cast has to be nerfed as a result. If a change breaks the entire ecosystem this hard it probably wasn't a good idea.

ThePartyLeaderDec 9, 20153 votes

First off. Karthus is already dead so he probably can't rest in piece ever. Second unless you are a karthus main with a plethora of game knowledge and bullet point reasons to validate your argument. I will side with ritos data on millions of games and successful track record in balancing mobas.

And for everyone that down votes saying how terrible riot is at balance and game design then...... Why do you play there game...... Awkward.

Full BrainDec 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

And for everyone that down votes saying how terrible riot is at balance and game design then...... Why do you play there game...... Awkward.

For the Ahri and MF skins.

Shroom JunkieDec 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

First off. Karthus is already dead so he probably can't rest in piece ever. Second unless you are a karthus main with a plethora of game knowledge and bullet point reasons to validate your argument. I will side with ritos data on millions of games and successful track record in balancing mobas.

And for everyone that down votes saying how terrible riot is at balance and game design then...... Why do you play there game...... Awkward.

Actually... I don't. Because they can't. I play it maybe once or twice every patch or so to see if its finally balancing out, or sometimes because I want to play with my friends or play someone fun even if we're losing like Lee Sin. But aside from that I stay away from it and play other, more balanced mobas like HotS.

JabberwöckyDec 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

First off. Karthus is already dead so he probably can't rest in piece ever. Second unless you are a karthus main with a plethora of game knowledge and bullet point reasons to validate your argument. I will side with ritos data on millions of games and successful track record in balancing mobas.

And for everyone that down votes saying how terrible riot is at balance and game design then...... Why do you play there game...... Awkward.

Their* game.

Stiv1234Dec 8, 20152 votes

And after they have admitted it they will nerf every champ once again before finally addressing the item. Maybe.

Earl EulrichDec 9, 20152 votes

pretty much, Fearless doesn´t want to talk about it in the DevCorner either...*sigh*

Pasta Help DeskDec 8, 20151 votes

What happened to karthus?

Lambs FrenzyDec 8, 20152 votes

He's getting nerfed

OnanThaManDec 9, 20158 votes

They are hitting the slow on his wall.

Nidalee SO NYAAADec 10, 20151 votes

Oh that's it? Is it that big of a deal?

SithesisLordDec 10, 20151 votes

Mobility counters Karthus. Karthus counters mobility with his slow. Now his slow decays. A 1% difference in a slow could mean the enemy escaping or dying to Karthus' Q.

So yes, of course it´s a big deal.

TheOvermindDec 9, 20151 votes

Yeah they proceed to nerf the most unplayed champion In the game cuz his win rate spiked a bit, when no even sees him anywhere, but meanwhile yasuo and vayne are still going rampant and rito refuses to touch them , no wonder tho their popularity is like the highest in the game along with lee sin