Ap Bruiser Itemization

Boomerangbro·11/13/2019, 5:36:34 AM·14 votes·8,548 views

I think Riot needs to add a more diverse pool of AP bruiser itemization into the game. With new Support and Lethality items being introduced in preseason benefiting support, adc and assassin classes, I think it leaves bruisers, specifically AP bruisers left behind with poor options to choose from.

Most divers such as tend to have a difficult time itemizing properly because they cant afford to place in their builds, nor do they have any incentive to, thus these champs mostly tend to build full AP assassin, which takes away from their fantasy of brawling. and don't even have ways to disengage from the fight, so their best option is always to burst down opponents.

I suggest adding a melee only item with similar stats to . It offers a beefy mix of AP and armor stats and would be perfect for the likes of AP bruisers.

22 Comments

PopcornBunni11/13/2019, 6:14:37 AM11 votes

Odd that you list assassins alongside Sylas. There are other actual AP bruisers that fit the bill more.

Rumble Chogath Singed Mordekaiser

Something in common among these champions is that they have relatively poor AP ratios compared to their base damage.

is the poster-child of bad AP ratios, needing a whopping 850 AP to match the base damage of his spells. Hence he builds the items you brought up, magic pen and additional non AP damage amp.

That said, Rumble and co aren't in much better shape. The steampunk yordle needs around 600 AP to match his spell rotation, but he doesn't get the mana benefits of an item like item 3027 or item 3001 , so his scaling is further hindered by poor itemization more so than just about any other AP. Singed is in a similar camp, where all the proxy farm in the world doesn't amount to much since he can't spend his gold in an efficient way due to the bulk of his damage coming from his non-scaling %health toss and getting spell effect procs on his poison. The ratio to his base poison is actually incredible, surpassing the damage with a mere 150 AP, but it amounts to only 40% AP per second .

Then there's Chogath who is some kind of Juggernaut warden battlemage hybrid with none of the tools in his kit to make sufficient AP investments work over just building stacking defenses.

Mordekaiser is not the kind of champion I want to see scaling any harder than he does for his early lane bully power.

Other than that, there just aren't many AP bruisers in the game as a whole. There are a plethera of AP tanks, but any time they end up viable it's because of building as not tanks at all with full AP spell rotations. The best middle ground case study comes from Galio who does build a mix of tanky and AP items, but has been a balancing nightmare in his own right since his relaunch.

A part of the issue is there is currently no "default" AP/health mid tier item. For AD champions, item 3052 and item 3044 serve as building blocks for any future bruiser items the team might make, but for AP, that role is split among multiple different items. item 3916 item 3136 are both mid-tier items with very specific purposes which hinders their application for different final items. item 3027 item 3152 item 3116 all need to be built in full before they get a usable mix of the stats.

The final items don't even offer a particularly large amount of health anyway, especially compared to the AD equivalents, and further incentivize damage instead -- item 3022 700 HP and 30 AD, item 3116 300 HP and 90 AP; It's pretty clear that mallet is intended for AD melee champions to take an extra beating and stick close to a target over a fight, while the AP version seems intended for Taliyah to burst people down with a full Q series. item 3071 vs item 3165 tells a similar story, with Cleaver shutting down tanks while adding health for their own tankiness, and Morello bursting down squishies in 0.3 seconds instead of 0.4.

Xavanic11/13/2019, 5:41:22 AM10 votes

problem is the moment bruiser ap itemization is added Katarina Akali Fizz Kassadin will immediately abuse it and make them even worse to deal with

Boomerangbro11/13/2019, 7:48:41 AM4 votes

Believe it or not, Diana was intended to be an AP diver and not assassin. She was designed in a way that kept her in the fight, but Riots design philosophy over the years have yielded her to becoming an assassin since she simply doesnt have the tankiness to sustain through all the burst these days.

Drakath200211/13/2019, 8:54:49 AM2 votes

The problem is that as long as the item offers stats that directly contribute to burst, your guaranteed to have the AP assassins abuse it, Mages arent the problem, the AP Assassins are, and limiting it to melee only removes Ahri , Zoe and Leblanc from the pool of abusers, which still have Evelynn Akali Ekko Fizz Katarina Nidalee

also two problematic AP champions that are not Assassins are Kayle and Kassadin who are infamous for supposedly being "Auto Wins post lv16", which means that the Item cant have AS, so that it wouldnt fuel item 3115 and item 3124 in terms of Absurd DPS (also to avoid Teemo , Kennen and Azir from abusing it)

so with that in mind, what can we give the Item, that wouldnt Appeal to the Assassins as well as Burst Mages ( Annie Cassiopeia Heimerdinger Lissandra Neeko Orianna Ryze Syndra TwistedFate Veigar ) and Artillery Mages ( Lux Velkoz Ziggs Xerath ) but would appeal to the AP Bruisers and the Battle Mages (The other AP class that was meant to be the more durable subclass, the Mage's counterpart to the Fighter's Juggernaut)

well let us look at what they all have in common

AP Bruisers Chogath Elise Galio Mordekaiser Singed Sylas Diana

Battle Mages Anivia AurelionSol Karthus Malzahar Rumble Swain Taliyah Viktor Vladimir

they all have some way of dealing Damage over time, whether an official DoT effect, a Drain, low cooldowns that allow spamming, abilities with charges, they also have some form of survival such as Healing, a Resurrection passive, disengages, shields, high health pools, Hard and Soft CC

and finally they all share a low base movement speed and being very kite-able once their CC is on cooldown

Items that most of these champions buy include item 3001 item 3027 item 3151 item 3116 item 3165

Items which grant HP and AP, stats which both groups like, but why do we see morello taken on other AP classes too but not the others? if we look at the others, we can see that they offer some more defensive power (Slows, MR, Awe Passive) or more DPS power (%HP Burn, MR Debuff Aura) in exchange for some raw AP

by that logic, the most optimal stats and effects to give these items is Health, a low but not Irrelevant amount of AP, and then one or MAYBE 2 of the following: Passives or actives that allow for more DPS potential or survivability, some defensive stats like Armor and MR, CDR, Mana or Mana Regen

Alternatively you could give AP Bruisers and Battle Mages HP Scalings like how AD Bruisers have AD and HP Scalings, this opens up items like item 3742 item 3065 item 3083 item 3143 item 3800 for them, items which AD Bruisers start to buy after a couple of AD Items

The Stripy Bag11/13/2019, 10:51:39 PM2 votes

I've found an issue with Ap Bruisers is the items they do have lack in both gold efficiency and raw stats compared to their AD counterparts not to mention general options or the fact that many of them rely too much on Spell damage vs general damage. Like if I play say Illaoi I can get item 3071 + item 3053 and this gives me a shield,movement sped buff,health,damage,cooldowns,and armor shred.