Yum, were around baron but it actually died too fast before we could get from T1 turret mid to baron pit.
Assuming they were sitting in the pit waiting for it to respawn, it died in 7 seconds.
SEVEN. SECONDS. Ive seen turrets die slower than this.
If you are not ON TOP OF THE BARON PIT when it spawns they take it before you get there.
Yup, barons not too weak.
Akali is SO HOT24 votesWell they had like 3 fed champions and 2 mountain Drakes so taking it down that quickly isn't very surprising.
Hibeki5 votesNo its not surprising, but it still shouldn't happen.
Akali is SO HOT8 votesTeams being able to burst down Baron super quick with fed champions has existed since the beginning of the game. If you're team is massively ahead there is no reason you shouldn't be able to take objectives quickly.
Hibeki2 votesWell no, it hasnt always been possible. Damage has power creeped super hard over the course of the game and barons durability has never really been buffed.
Z3Sleeper4 votesSeasons 1-3ish, Tryndamere, Yi, Warwick, Jax.
Heimerdinger since forever.
Whenever Kalista was released -> now.
Vayne since release til she got the heavy nerfs to Silver Bolts way back.
Kog Maw since forever.
In the earlier days alot of these champs could even solo Baron since it didn't debuff back then.
Atleast now it takes more than 1 champion.
NemeBro3 votesSeasons 1-3ish, Tryndamere, Yi, Warwick, Jax.
Heimerdinger since forever.
Whenever Kalista was released -> now.
Vayne since release til she got the heavy nerfs to Silver Bolts way back.
Kog Maw since forever.
In the earlier days alot of these champs could even solo Baron since it didn't debuff back then.
Atleast now it takes more than 1 champion.
Every single champion you named except maybe Heimerdinger can solo Baron right now lol.
OHminus4 votesDonger can solo baron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF-_ZwdjpYo
probably not the best example but the basic idea is to stand over wall and place turrets over wall, use w and e to whittle it down alongside your turrets. Empowered W does a shit-ton of damage, empowered Q can tank a fair amount from Baron.
NemeBro1 votesDonger can solo baron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF-_ZwdjpYo
probably not the best example but the basic idea is to stand over wall and place turrets over wall, use w and e to whittle it down alongside your turrets. Empowered W does a shit-ton of damage, empowered Q can tank a fair amount from Baron.
I don't doubt it, he's just the only one listed I haven't personally done it with.
Here's a list of champs I know can:
(takes ages though)
Of these, IIRC the fastest was Master Yi or Draven.
Spank the Fox2 votesI played Aatrox with Blade and Hydra and went to Baron at about 21 mins.
Couldn’t get it 10% of it’s HP down without almost dying, so I’m not entirely sure how most of these champs can “solo” Baron while it has the -50% damage aura to the primary target.
Nuparu1 votesMost of them can't.
Look at some of them, how does a Camille, Fiora, Kalista, etc. solo Baron? They have almost no way of actually doing enough damage to it even if they go full lifesteal before the stacking MR reduction + baron damage simply kills them. Either they're full build ridiculously early (like, 15+ kills) or it's not happening.
YumaS2Astral1 votesI don't doubt it, he's just the only one listed I haven't personally done it with.
Here's a list of champs I know can:
Of these, IIRC the fastest was Master Yi or Draven.
can also solo Baron if he has a ghost of the enemy ADC or the dragon
Hibeki3 votesYeah you know how long it took to solo baron?
Almost a solid minute.
Hópe4 votes[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t6VYBEpp,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-03-04T23:14:43.320+0000)
Saying this
Well they had like 3 fed champions and 2 mountain Drakes so taking it down that quickly isn't very surprising.
is equal to you saying this
Well they had 3 fed champions and 2 infernals so 1 shotting anyone that moves isnt surprising.
Thats a big problem.
PhDs Nuts7 votesThats a big problem.
Not really. Any team with 3 fed champions and 2 infernals should definitely be destroying teamfights. Not "1 shotting anyone that moves", but those were your words anyway, not his.
Hópe1 votesNot really. Any team with 3 fed champions and 2 infernals should definitely be destroying teamfights.
There should be counterplay that involves not getting 1 shotted. The problem with Infernal dragons is that the ''winning'' team is usually the one that secures objectives like that.
Very rarely do you see a losing team get Baron. Infernal does nothing but escalate a winning teams damage more. Which is the same thing that Death fire grasp used to do. Basically means not an interactive thing to have.
Another explanation is this.
Ocean drake gives you sustain OUT of combat, it does not work when fighting. It has counterplay, Put someone in Combat.
Infernal drakes counterplay is ''Dont ever fight''
Pika Fox1 votes"Dragon does nothing but escalate a winning teams damage more"
Thats literally the point. Dragon is one of the winning objectives for early game team comps.
Hópe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t6VYBEpp,comment-id=00030002000000000002,timestamp=2018-03-05T05:38:51.222+0000)
"Dragon does nothing but escalate a winning teams damage more"
Thats literally the point. Dragon is one of the winning objectives for early game team comps.
We arent talking about whats the point of the Dragon
We are talking about whats the counterplay of infernal dragon when the enemy has it.
Nothing, There is no counterplay. Its just ''Ay you hit harder lmao grats''
As if we need more damage in this game.
Pika Fox2 votesThe counterplay is not letting them take the objective, or at least not take it for free. If theyre ahead and get 2 kills then take drag, the counterplay is not letting them get the 2 kills.
Youre literally missing the entire point.
Hópe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t6VYBEpp,comment-id=0003000200000000000200000000,timestamp=2018-03-05T23:38:09.535+0000)
The counterplay is not letting them take the objective, or at least not take it for free. If theyre ahead and get 2 kills then take drag, the counterplay is not letting them get the 2 kills.
Youre literally missing the entire point.
No, actually I think you are missing the point. My point is, Infernal dragon does NOTHING BUT INCREASE DAMAGE.
We dont need more damage in this game. We dont need Infernal dragons. Mountain dragons only applies to objectives, Water only applies out of combat, Cloud out of combat, yet Infernal is damage increase to champions minions AND objectives because its % ad and ap.
It's nothing but a horrible snowballing mech because winning teams already get objectives.
Pika Fox1 votesAgain, WELCOME TO THE POINT.
Hópe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t6VYBEpp,comment-id=000300020000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-06T19:39:16.027+0000)
Again, WELCOME TO THE POINT.
If you played ranked you'd understand.
Pika Fox1 votesThat makes far more context when used against you. Dragons entire point in all of league history has been what the early game team strives to get to cement their lead once they establish it, because late game teamcomps would eventually run them over.
Its entire point is a snowball mechanic. Whoever gets it gets an advantage. The counterplay is "dont let them get it in the first place". Its like complaining theres no counterplay to CSing.
Odysseus26317 votesit's like 33 minutes in game. Any DECENT adc should have full build by 28 minutes. If they don't then they typically are behind. I don't know how to reiterate it was 33 minutes into the game. 4 people can take it down in that time plus jungler.
ModWulf Helhammer56 votesPlus they had two mountain drakes, with a 10/5/7 Vayne, 10/4/12 Graves, and a 6/2/15 Lux with Mejais
Odysseus2635 votes"buff baron" when deals 12% true damage of their max hp and then a lux with probably 15/25 stacks of mejas. Funny meme.
Hibeki7 votesUh yes. No case should ever exist other than maybe 1 team comp that baron dies that quickly.
The only people who think that this is normal are people who haven't played for more than 2 or 3 seasons
Silly Neeko9 votesLol that is a pretty normal thing tbh. If it gets later in the game % hp damage is where its at. Elder drag is similar. If you were pinging the baron then you should have had vision on it. They found no threat, so they took advantage. 7 seconds is roughly 15 shots from vayne at least... doing true damage 5 times, and thats just her. Vayne by herself could have probably done it in 20 seconds. This isnt even including if she had Bork.... i havent looked so i dont know.
Last 1k damage was likely smite.
This is not a normal occurance due to the enemy team is usually already set up to contest, but if almost everyone is full build and no need to worry about a steal..... it goes down in 10 seconds normally. Always has with a team that is ahead, full build, and is not contested.
Wimbledofy1 votesIs her truye damage not capped vs monsters?
Fairyfleur21 votesWhich is why people shouldn’t use one game to prove anything related to balance
The Ecdysiast3 votes[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t6VYBEpp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-04T21:53:02.697+0000)
Plus they had two mountain drakes, with a 10/5/7 Vayne, 10/4/12 Graves, and a 6/2/15 Lux with Mejais
Even so, Baron should scale to account for the fact in most games one side will be winning already. It should be a risk to take baron even if you're fed.
My suggestion is to scale his damage and defenses to the damage he's taking to normalize the amount of time it takes to kill him.
Baron is too weak.
Odysseus2633 votesbaron may not be the strongest but for any squishy comp to solo him they need to rotate around baron. Baron buffs should come in the form of disabling true damage and buffing restistances. Not health.
Marshbouy7 votesThank you for providing some much needed context for this game.
PhDs Nuts7 votesit's like 33 minutes in game. Any DECENT adc should have full build by 28 minutes.
lolwut
280 cs at 28 minutes is 10k gold (minions + passive gen). A full ADC build is at least 14.7k gold, not including wards, potions, starting items. To you, a "DECENT adc" has 10 cs per minute and a score of 12/x/12 at 28 minutes.
= 14.7k
Tahm5 voteslolwut
280 cs at 28 minutes is 10k gold (minions + passive gen). A full ADC build is at least 14.7k gold, not including wards, potions, starting items. To you, a "DECENT adc" has 10 cs per minute and a score of 12/x/12 at 28 minutes.
Right. Lets leave out all objective gold because there is no way towers will fall before 28 minutes. Cant forget that adcs arent allowed to even think about going to other lanes to siphon gold and that taking jg camps is foreign.
PhDs Nuts6 votes[{quoted}](name=Cute Kîtten,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t6VYBEpp,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-05T01:37:53.623+0000)
Right. Lets leave out all objective gold because there is no way towers will fall before 28 minutes. Cant forget that adcs arent allowed to even think about going to other lanes to siphon gold and that taking jg camps is foreign.
....how much gold do you think towers give individually? Starting items cost 500 gold, none of which typically go into the final build unless you start longsword or boots (never do this as adc). That's 5 turrets' global gold, or 2 turrets when one is a solo first turret of the game. I already said I didn't account for starting items, pink wards, and potions. Those add up to roughly even out the turret gold. And what does going to other lanes or the jungle have anything to do with this when it's already assumed they have 10 cs per minute? That's LCS level. Jungle camps = 4 cs to keep the count consistent with minion gold value so it doesn't even need to be part of the equation.
And this is just to be called a "DECENT adc" by the guy I originally replied to.
Critmaster Garen3 voteslolwut
280 cs at 28 minutes is 10k gold (minions + passive gen). A full ADC build is at least 14.7k gold, not including wards, potions, starting items. To you, a "DECENT adc" has 10 cs per minute and a score of 12/x/12 at 28 minutes.
"crit builds arent a problem"
"crit builds arent too cheap"
"its supports and tanks who make adc too strong"
"no adc stacks crit right now"
"its just junglers who snowball bot lane"
-adc mains
Somebody Love Me3 votesADC Full build at 28 min
Aren't you exaggerating a bit there? I know their items are cheap, but 28 minutes is a bit....too fast
The Ecdysiast1 votes[{quoted}](name=Actual Trash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t6VYBEpp,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-03-05T03:29:08.485+0000)
Aren't you exaggerating a bit there? I know their items are cheap, but 28 minutes is a bit....too fast
That's the point. In plat+ the game is extremely snowball-y. By 28 minutes an ADC should be full build because they can and will snowball off of just 3 kills.
Somebody Love Me2 votesJust played a game where the enemy ADC was fed off their ass (ended the game with over 20 kills and 9 cs per min) and even then, they barely hit full build by 30.
In a more common game, I don't see that happening often, so maybe 32-35 min is a better threshold
AmenPerson2 votesThat there annoys me. I miss when I full build for any type of champion was done at around 45 minutes, and not before half an hour has passed.
Odysseus2631 votesTurrets 2 weak. Buff turrets.
2Charmnot2Charm2 votesI dont know why you're downvoted so much, you're right about it being 33 minutes into the game so of course a team is going to melt it if the enemy team isn't there to contest them. It's like people expect the enemy team to not jump on it when it's obvious they have just based.
Odysseus2632 votesyo tbh same. I get a lot of hate for speaking the truth on the forums. My policy is no bullcrap and straight to the point with why something is like this. I was coaching someone and i said if you don't change the way your macro is late game you'll keep losing. He disliked my comment but he changed how he was playing it and he started winning. He focused objectives overall instead of kills. Goes to show that people think they know better than someone who mains the role inside of platinum. Oh well~
GenoXx1 votesYou get alot of hate for being direct and not pg-13.
Odysseus2631 votesyeah, i try to improve the boards and in game i just hit my first checkpoint for 2 (so i'm 2.1 now) and i'm still gaining honor quickly, being the same as i am on the boards. I might not be the most positive but i don't stroke people's egos to tell them they are right or wrong. "Being direct is horrible apparently and you should feel bad for being the way you are." - people who hate the boards :(
GenoXx1 votesI was saying that because I get hated too for being direct lol People are way too sensitive on the boards
Odysseus2631 votesanyone who is heated on the boards and gets triggered by just someone saying X adc should be full build by X minutes doesn't see the point of the boards. let them control it, i won't give my knowledge that i've helped so many accounts out of their elos go to the people i just described. I got about 6 of my messages that were mocking someone taken down too and i was like "they are that sensitive when they are throwing out vulgarities and I'M the one who is punished? K."
