1000+ true damage AoE execute with massive range that FRAKING RESETS lul.
It's broken beyond belief even WITHOUT the silly gold share...
inb4 "it's only pbe", "it's only true damage on execute" and "it's a skillshot" xd
Just don't. It's a retarded ability that either needs it's damage halved, or cast time tripled to be balanced.
Reaper55992 votesIts worth mentioning that if Pyke is caught out of position, he won't have time to ult because of how damn squishy he is.
Early on the execute is barely even noticeable, as soon as he gets it, its 185 base, and while it may have a 140% bonus ad ratio, that only really comes into effect once he has an item or two under his belt.
If the damage were to be halved, it would be a pain in the ass to execute with, especially if you're talking about both the base damage AND the ratio, the damage would go from 185-620 (+140% bonus ad) to 92.5 - 310 (+70% bonus ad), making it extremely underwhelming.
If the cast time was tripled, it would end up being way too easy to avoid, its radius is small enough that people would be able to simply walk out of it, keep in mind, it dosent stike in a full circle, so he already has to be able to aim it.
The only thing that could be a reasonable adjustment would be lowering the kill gold share early, but at the same time, Pyke is hard enough to play and isn't super at the moment, although he may need a power adjustment from his ult to his basic spells (Example, less early ult damage for lower early basic spell cooldowns)
Meep Man1 votesI do think the bonus AD ratio on it is going to be nerfed before he leaves the PBE. Maybe even the base damage, although it is pretty weak at Level 6.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesalthough it is pretty weak at Level 6.
???
It's 185 + 1.4 bonus AD true damage. To put it into perspective, Darius ult is 200 + 1.5 AD.
Without the range, at 5 stacks and single-target...
The numbers are beyond retarded, even at level 6.
Hethalean1 votesSo less scaling. Less base damage. On a champion who won't have the same gold income to build damage stats (also has to buy Targon's Brace (which is less AD than a Long Sword (8.9 AD from health)) if he's support. Otherwise less damage and scaling on the same budget as Darius.
Not free like Darius ult on reset. Does not fear. Darius ult is always true damage where Pyke's ult is not.
Not to mention Darius is a juggernaut, and Pyke is an assassin. Pyke has a lot less base AD as a result. About 15 AD less at 6. If you complete Phage by 6, then you about break even AD wise with Darius. I think the level 18 damage might be a bit much, but I'm not sure it is 'beyond retarded'.
I forgot that Darius at 5 stacks gets 55 AD at level 6, so you'll be well behind on ult damage on Pyke vs Darius
Zero Skill Tank1 votesYou also forgot that Darius needs to stay in melee for extented period of time to stack while Pyke can jump in from range better than any ADC in the game has.
Oh, and you also forgot that base AD is meaningless for both ult... [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Hethalean1 votesI mean... you failed to include a very in depth analysis and were missing tons of key differences as well. I'm not sure what your point was. Is it just you can look at 1/10th the picture as long as people circle jerk with you?? lol It's easy to just compare two side by side abilities and ignore the rest of the kit and design. Like Omg blitzcrank Q is so much better than Pyke Q because look how much further it pulls, and no need to charge it. shrug
Meep Man2 votesIt's only true damage if it executes, otherwise it's physical damage. The numbers at Level 6 are weak, but the numbers at Level 18 are REALLY STRONG to the point that it can kill ADCs that don't build health at around 66% health.
Oleandervine1 votesHis ult really isn't busted, and the recast time only lasts a few seconds before it goes on CD. Plus, this 1000+ true damage you're talking about is a pure fantasy. Each time I've used him, the execute indicator is almost always at the last 8th of the enemy HP, and if it was "1000+" I'd be able to pretty much destroy any ADC who so much as trips on a rock and skins their knee, as 1000 HP is well over half of most ADCs' and many caster supports' HP. I think you're overblowing this way out of context and proportion.
Hethalean1 votesWell, level 18 the base damage is 625. You only need about 268 bonus AD to get 1000 damage out of it. I'm not well versed enough in solo lane assassins to know if that's a lot of bonus ad (typical support main up in here :D)
EDIT: Hrm if you get Youmuu's (55 AD), Duskblade (55 AD), and The Black Cleaver (68.6 AD) that is 178 AD and only 3 items. If you build Frozen Mallet that is actually 80 AD from that item. That is late game full build though on a squishy champ. Might not be great.
Oleandervine1 votesWell, level 18 the base damage is 625. You only need about 268 bonus AD to get 1000 damage out of it. I'm not well versed enough in solo lane assassins to know if that's a lot of bonus ad (typical support main up in here :D)
EDIT: Hrm if you get Youmuu's (55 AD), Duskblade (55 AD), and The Black Cleaver (68.6 AD) that is 178 AD and only 3 items. If you build Frozen Mallet that is actually 80 AD from that item. That is late game full build though on a squishy champ. Might not be great.
I'm not well versed in AD assassins either, but you have to remember, Pyke is operating on a very tight budget, so even if he's at late game, he's probably not going to be fully geared. Where most assassins will probably be near full build and super fed late game, Pyke will probably not be, as his intention is to get his ADC near full build and super fed.
Hethalean1 votesI'm thinking solo lane Pyke. I can't see him actually being a support in the sense that it's more attractive to take him support role vs jungle or top.
Oleandervine2 votesI'm thinking solo lane Pyke. I can't see him actually being a support in the sense that it's more attractive to take him support role vs jungle or top.
It's not attractive to have him jungle or solo lane, because he will struggle hard core. He doesn't have a lot of clear speed on minions or monsters, and he has significant cooldowns that will impact how he'll be able to trade with lane opponents in a solo lane. He also can't build bonus HP, so he'll always be squishy, and any opponent who can clear fast (such as Darius or Lee Sin) can easily bully him out of the lane or the jungle. He just doesn't have the kit or stamina to be that effective outside of the support role.
nm10102 votesI have a current bruiser build of
That hits well over 1k damage on the ult (I think the exact amount was ~1150).
Oleandervine1 votesI have a current bruiser build of
That hits well over 1k damage on the ult (I think the exact amount was ~1150).
And at what level and how long into the game is this? Even if it's possible, I'm having a hard time believing that it's going to be easily achievable considering he has to operate on a budget that doesn't allow for him to have CS.
nm10103 votesAnd at what level and how long into the game is this?
This is full build of course, but that is still half an adc's health bar as a true damage execute.
Even if it's possible, I'm having a hard time believing that it's going to be easily achievable considering he has to operate on a budget that doesn't allow for him to have CS.
People keep on saying this, but from what I can tell he works exceptionally well as a bruiser top. He has a ludicrous amount of sustain, push potential and decent ad with a doran's shield start. You rush the bami's to help your wave clear (both from the ad and passive) then you just proceed to ignore all damage your opponent does.
Depending on match up you can even max e instead of q, which actually does let you wave clear pretty well.
Its All Skillzz1 voteswas watching like youtube videos of him, and i was like da fuck is that he just executed an entire team pretty much.
MystVearn1 votesA champion that is not released with inflated stats is a rare ocurrence, you shouldn't think too much about it, it will be as usual, he is going to be "OP" so people buy it, and then they will nerf him.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesBeing OP is one thing. I normally refrain from complaining about PBE/recently released champs.
But Pyke is just absolutely retarded to play against. He hits lvl 11, and enemy team can no longer teamfight, period.
Jaspers1 votesI agree wholeheartedly.
Riot once said in an interview about new Runes that one of the ideas they had was a rune that if your enemy is below a certain %HP, an auto attack killed them. It was quickly scrapped as it meant that that you'd consider your HP that % amount less than what it is from then on as EVERYONE would take that rune.
How is this any different?
I hate Urgot's ult because it's in a way the only true execute in the game and it has a %hp threshhold which is stupid. But no matter what people argue about how "It's a skill shot." Or "Build resistance and he won't get to to that level." Means nothing when he can just press a button and you are dead. (No one will change my mind on this, so don't try).
This is the same but flat instead of %. Infact you can basically oneshot a 50% HP Nami with just Duskblade at level 15 because it scales with level not points put into it. It does more damage than Darius ult at level 15 as well because of that damage per level crap.
It's stupid.
Hethalean1 votesWell, to be fair, Pyke ult is more comparable to Darius ult. Urgot ult is worse against squishy targets than tanky ones while Darius and Pyke ults are better against squishy targets than tanky ones. Then in that sense both Darius nad Pyke ults are executes if Pyke ult is an execute.
Jaspers1 votesI agree, I just don't like execute ults that you cannot itemise against. Urgot's is just 25% hp and you are dead, no armour or MR will save you, infact building more HP goes against you. Pyke's is flat amount meaning against squishies it's better. But with Darius, if he wants to get full damage off, he has to stack it, it's base is pretty low, it gives you time to leave/escape. Garen's is magic damage so build MR, same with Veigar and Eve.
Doge20201 votesI agree, I just don't like execute ults that you cannot itemise against. Urgot's is just 25% hp and you are dead, no armour or MR will save you, infact building more HP goes against you. Pyke's is flat amount meaning against squishies it's better. But with Darius, if he wants to get full damage off, he has to stack it, it's base is pretty low, it gives you time to leave/escape. Garen's is magic damage so build MR, same with Veigar and Eve.
One way is to maybe choose champs that either have revives in their kit or in the set of items they can build. Idk all of the interactions with Urgot’s ult but I have seen a kindred stop her ally urgot’s Execute from happening. she ulted herself to stop her from dying, which prevented the Urgot from executing his target.
Based on that interaction I think that Aatrox, zilean or the GA item might counter urgot’s ult. As well as all of the other execute style ult’s in this game (Darius, Garen and Pyke).
Aptest1 votesexecute ults are not a problem by themselves. you do not complain about garen's ult or riven's ult.
The problem is the resets, when combined with the ult having AOE damage AND giving pyke a dash.
And another problem is the gold distribution on the ult. Riot really should not have tried to solve the "darius getting pentas was really awesome but everybody was complaining about darius KSing everybody" problem, because the solution gives extra snowballing.
All in all we have 2 snowball mechanics stuffed in 1 ult.
Reaper55992 votesIts an ultimate ability, that how.
Urgot has to wait until level 6 to be able to execute, even then, the base damage early on is pretty much nothing, Urgot has to work to get you below that 25% health threshold.
If they tailored a execute into a rune, it would be available from level 1, meaning that early fights would be much more onside if someone had that rune whereas others did not.
In Urgot's case, if he screws up early, by the time he gets his ultimate, he wouldn't be able to use it since he wouldn't be able to win fights.
Same thing goes for Pyke, if he screws up early (Which isn't as hard to do compared to Urgot), His ultimate won't be of help since it loses power when not able to execute, you also have to be right up in their face with no blinks aside from flash, his stealth has a pretty large reveal radius so it will be easier to react.)
I will agree however Pyke's ult may be a little on the strong spectrum, Urgot's however has enough counterplay in my eyes (Long drag time, Skillshot, can be stopped if he dies)
I get that you said you have a really strong opinion on this, I just need to be able to say this to Maybe try and help you out.
Jaspers1 votes[{quoted}](name=Toxic Urgot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t55EdKbi,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-05-17T17:40:39.437+0000)
Its an ultimate ability, that how.
Urgot has to wait until level 6 to be able to execute, even then, the base damage early on is pretty much nothing, Urgot has to work to get you below that 25% health threshold.
I get that you said you have a really strong opinion on this, I just need to be able to say this to Maybe try and help you out.
I know and thanks don't get me wrong, I've beaten Urgot plenty of times, my favourite is Rammus with first item Bramble, Urgot's own W hurts him a lot but I also don't like that. My opinion on the ult won't change. I don't like the idea I can't clutch fight and come out with 10 hp left because if he hits me with it (and I'm not GP/Tryn/Aatrox) I'm dead. Doesnt' matter than I'm a 4kHP Rammus with full armour, technically my HP isn't 4kHP against Urgot, it's 3k.
It's the same for Pyke's ult, I think his base damage/execute should be halved, mainly because it scales with level not points in his ult. That seems a little weird to me.
Reaper55991 votesI think that the scaling per level should be scrapped and replaced with more meaningful boosts at certain levels, it would delay his powerspikes since right now, he slowly gets power from level ups (Don't get me wrong, I don't think pyke is broken, far from it, but his ult is going to be very strong).
I respect your opinion, and as someone who mains Urgot, I can see it being a bit frustrating to get him low, only for him to pop ultimate, especially when nobody is around to kill him to save you from it, and win a fight. However, at the moment, outside his ult, Urgot feels.....wired, no keystone works extremely well with him (Aftershock is situational, Comet relies on landing q), and his kit is extremely telegraphed.
Not really much else I can say, you seem dedicated to your opinion thus i have no place to try to change it.
Jaspers1 votesAgreed on Pyke, except, I think he will be a bit much if not only for his ult and his rediculous scaling HP. "He can't build bonus HP, let's give him the best scaling HP in the game in compensation." is not compensation, it's just giving him loads of HP for the sake of it. :-P
And yeah, that's exactly it. Especially as in Urgot's main top in top, if you are playing an immobile tank or fighter (I love me some Yorick), having to 'rush' kill him just isn't an option. But I'd agree that the rest of his kit, I'm fine with, it's fair enough.
Reaper55991 votesKindof agreed, Pyke should be a slippery Assassin who his high risk high reward, but having the highest base health in the game seems odd, I would be glad if they shaved off about 200-300 health but either put into his base damage of into a lower q cooldown
(Because 16 seconds on his main source of lane damage seems a bit much, maybe if they added some kindof mechanic where it got slightly lowered if he only did the stab portion? since it would be a bit too strong if they reduced all together due to the pull.).
Ok sure but why1 votesPyke is the bastard love child of Twitch, Darius, Shen and Blitzcrank, and I love it
Aptest1 votesI must agree with you.
We've been in this story before. His name was Darius and he was getting pentakills by the dozens. This ult also grants extra gold to the killing team?
It's the most snowbally shit ever. Riot, please nerf.