Vlad is horrible to play against

Dedrius·Mar 26, 2015·12 votes·3,368 views

Am I saying Vlad is overpowered? No. Am I saying his kit is broken? In my opinion yes. He has such a terrible style of kit that is not fun to play against. Resource-less spammable sustain is not fun to play against and has little counterplay. Basically when playing against vlad you have to all in him before level 4-5 and kill him to win the lane. If you play a champion that is weak early game or one that needs farm to be effective, the laning phase vs a vlad is a terrible experience.

I have felt this way for a while and Riot did bring up something a while back about how his kit is fairly toxic to play against. His kit needs to be reworked so he is more enjoyable to play against and also more fun to play with rather than just spam sustain and split push.

Let me know any thoughts anyways has on what could change to preserve his identity but make him a little more fun to play against.

36 Comments

ScrimshäwMar 26, 201524 votes

lol, you think he's horrible to play against? PLAY AS VLAD AGAINST A RIVEN, and you and your butthole will learn what is "horrible to play against"

Chespin2013Mar 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Treasure Goblin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t2sjfJW6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-03-26T19:49:19.422+0000)

lol, you think he's horrible to play against? PLAY AS VLAD AGAINST A RIVEN, and you and your butthole will learn what is "horrible to play against"

try against a tryndamere i would rather play dark souls on hardest difficulty deprived than play that matchup is a living lane hell

MartyrofsandMar 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Treasure Goblin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t2sjfJW6,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-03-26T19:49:19.422+0000)

lol, you think he's horrible to play against? PLAY AS VLAD AGAINST A RIVEN, and you and your butthole will learn what is "horrible to play against"

I tend to stomp that match-up pretty heavily as Vlad...then again I use an 11/0/19 set up on vlad with move speed quints, CD blues, scaling health yellows and M-pen reds. Generally I go to lane with roughly 390 move speed if I buy boots to start off while Riven tends to start with either Dorans shield or blade and only having 345 for her base move speed. Yeah she has her hops and dashes but for the most part I find I can still keep the distance and slowly eat away at her, and if I mess up I do run ghost/flash so I can get out and still be safe.

TBH I've found it one of the easier match-ups for me. The harder match-ups tend to be champs like Irelia/Lissandra/Lulu/Panth/etc who can either jump right on top of me or poke me form range since I run zero resistances and depend on distance, and sustain to stay alive.

As for Vlad himself I really don't have a problem with him, playing as or against him. His playstyle in lane is kinda like a poke champ but because of his sustain he does not get the range of a Xerath/Syndra/etc. He does get a single escape via his pool but it's on a 26 second CD at the first rank and it's the last thing he maxes so there is plenty of time to all in and punish him. I can see why some might not like the playstyle but frankly I have more fun playing against a Vlad than I do against someone like a Zed/Lee/Kalista/etc who leave me feeling helpless at times as they dash all around the map freely doing whatever they please. At least Vlad has some positive and meaning interaction and doesn't control how and when every fight with him happens.

A Drowned FishMar 26, 20159 votes

Proof that people will complain about anything.

DedriusMar 26, 20154 votes

Not really complaining about him, I'm just saying he is not fun to play against. Just like nasus is not fun to play against but he is not overpowered either. Their kits are just designed poorly.

More of an observation and hope for change than a complaint.

Togekiss24Mar 26, 20153 votes

The thing about Vlad, and I've played him, is that he's matchup dependent. Against most melee's he'll stomp his opponents hard and out-sustain them. Against anyone else, however, the lack of early game damage with his spells, coupled with the low cast range of his spells in general, make him very easily countered provided the opponent isn't passive early on. It doesn't help that the early heal with his Q can be completely mitigated by attacking him. He's... In an interesting spot, kind of like Ryze without the mana.

Also

Resource-less spammable sustain is not fun to play against and has little counterplay.

Tell that to Mundo and Renekton.

ladentionMar 26, 20151 votes

mundo's is a skillshot that costs health and doesn't heal him (beside the on hit return) renekton is completely melee

Kitten of EvilMar 26, 20153 votes

He's frustrating to play against, sort of a proto-Fizz... that being said, he is weakened by the popularity of item 3165 , hates ignite and % of max HP abilities (using AP Varus I was able to 50-0 an enemy Vlad in one Blight detonation a few days ago)... and he peaks in power at level 9. So he has a strong midgame but falls off, and he's incredibly item-dependent. Also has no CC except the minor slow on his only escape.

ZarxisMar 26, 20153 votes

's been a broken character for ages. He's extremely painful for melee toplaners that can't afford to all-in him (ex: XinZhao ), but he's really weak against any champion that outranges him or can simply skill him despite his troll pool. Riot can't balance spellvamp; Vladimir is spellvamp. That, and he's short-ranged, but he has little counterplay. It's all in the counterpicking when you play against a Vlad... That and you need an summoner 14 and/or a item 3165 somewhere on your team.

Vlad and spellvamp have been needing major reworking for quite some time, but Riot's content to leave them in their current, weakened forms.

The Bearded BardMar 26, 20153 votes

item 3211 item 3155 and item 3165 Three super cheap items that make beating Vlad easy. summoner 14 If he's being aggressive, he's going to automatically push the lane with his E. He's got his W to escape, but if he uses it initially he loses a fifth of his health and you can just wait it out and use your CC then. If he doesn't use it initially, he'll die. Honestly, the best way to beat him is aggression, and a lot of top laners easily beat him.

Some examples Darius Chogath Aatrox JarvanIV Irelia Hecarim Gnar Garen LeeSin Maokai Renekton Nasus Riven Sion Shyvana Swain Teemo MonkeyKing Pantheon Diana Olaf Fiora Rumble

There are even some non top laners that easily beat him top lane: Kassadin Morgana Vayne

I get he can be pretty annoying, and a lot of people rage when I play him, but trust me, he's really not hard to beat early on, he's a mid to late game champion.

Chespin2013Mar 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Maokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t2sjfJW6,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-03-26T22:13:02.922+0000)

and Three super cheap items that make beating Vlad easy. If he's being aggressive, he's going to automatically push the lane with his E. He's got his W to escape, but if he uses it initially he loses a fifth of his health and you can just wait it out and use your CC then. If he doesn't use it initially, he'll die. Honestly, the best way to beat him is aggression, and a lot of top laners easily beat him.

Some examples

There are even some non top laners that easily beat him top lane:

I get he can be pretty annoying, and a lot of people rage when I play him, but trust me, he's really not hard to beat early on, he's a mid to late game champion.

u missed this guy Tryndamere

MartyrofsandMar 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Maokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t2sjfJW6,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2015-03-26T22:13:02.922+0000)

Some examples

Darius no, a good vlad won't get touched by Darius. Cho'gath is a skill match-up Haven't played against an Aatrox J4 is a skill match-up, namely if Vlad can dodge the flag and drag Irelia I agree Hec I haven't faced but it doesn't seem to much of an issue as long as you play around his charge Gnar you can easily beat as well if you abuse brush and dodge his Q. Garen is a joke to beat as Vlad by far one of the easiest match-ups for him. Lee is a skill match up Vlad actually beats Mao'kai with my set up I proposed earlier. You go to lane with 17% CDR and mao doesn't do enough damage to put you out early where as vlad can easily harass mao out of lane. Renek is a skill match-up if you know how to avoid his harass patterns. Nasus gets destroyed my Vlad Riven see my previous comment Sion is also a joke easy to avoid, easy to play around, and you can easily harass him out of lane. Shyvana see sion Swain is one of those times you want to take ignite as vlad but it can be a skill match-up as well, namely can vlad out sustain swains mana when he ults. Vlad can easily destroy teemo with his sustain as long as he doesn't give Teemo a crap ton of time to AA him. Wukong is a skill match-up mainly hinging on how well he uses his clone. Panth I agree Diana is a joke to destroy pre-6 to the point she will be irrelevant once she hits 6. Olaf easy if you can dodge his axes he will never get close to you. Fiora can be tough but if you pool her ult as soon as she casts it and kite after she lunges you can win it. Rumble you beat in lane but he does more in team fights because of his ults.

Vlad is really better top lane than he is given credit for but most people are not running with a build that complements in playstyle and instead either go 21/9/0 set up and try to be glass cannon or 9/21/0 to try and be an immovable object. Neither are optimal and neither really work well with how vlad plays.

XtremeyMar 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Darius no, a good vlad won't get touched by Darius. Cho'gath is a skill match-up Haven't played against an Aatrox J4 is a skill match-up, namely if Vlad can dodge the flag and drag Irelia I agree Hec I haven't faced but it doesn't seem to much of an issue as long as you play around his charge Gnar you can easily beat as well if you abuse brush and dodge his Q. Garen is a joke to beat as Vlad by far one of the easiest match-ups for him. Lee is a skill match up Vlad actually beats Mao'kai with my set up I proposed earlier. You go to lane with 17% CDR and mao doesn't do enough damage to put you out early where as vlad can easily harass mao out of lane. Renek is a skill match-up if you know how to avoid his harass patterns. Nasus gets destroyed my Vlad Riven see my previous comment Sion is also a joke easy to avoid, easy to play around, and you can easily harass him out of lane. Shyvana see sion Swain is one of those times you want to take ignite as vlad but it can be a skill match-up as well, namely can vlad out sustain swains mana when he ults. Vlad can easily destroy teemo with his sustain as long as he doesn't give Teemo a crap ton of time to AA him. Wukong is a skill match-up mainly hinging on how well he uses his clone. Panth I agree Diana is a joke to destroy pre-6 to the point she will be irrelevant once she hits 6. Olaf easy if you can dodge his axes he will never get close to you. Fiora can be tough but if you pool her ult as soon as she casts it and kite after she lunges you can win it. Rumble you beat in lane but he does more in team fights because of his ults.

Vlad is really better top lane than he is given credit for but most people are not running with a build that complements in playstyle and instead either go 21/9/0 set up and try to be glass cannon or 9/21/0 to try and be an immovable object. Neither are optimal and neither really work well with how vlad plays.

so you play him as a kiting mage?

MartyrofsandMar 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

so you play him as a kiting mage?

Pretty much. I view him more as that annoying gnat that never seems to go away. I go to lane with like 1 AP but with 17% CDR and a crapton of move speed few can really get to me to kill me and I can just whittle them down bit by bit either denying them or out right killing them.

The Bearded BardMar 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Darius no, a good vlad won't get touched by Darius. Cho'gath is a skill match-up Haven't played against an Aatrox J4 is a skill match-up, namely if Vlad can dodge the flag and drag Irelia I agree Hec I haven't faced but it doesn't seem to much of an issue as long as you play around his charge Gnar you can easily beat as well if you abuse brush and dodge his Q. Garen is a joke to beat as Vlad by far one of the easiest match-ups for him. Lee is a skill match up Vlad actually beats Mao'kai with my set up I proposed earlier. You go to lane with 17% CDR and mao doesn't do enough damage to put you out early where as vlad can easily harass mao out of lane. Renek is a skill match-up if you know how to avoid his harass patterns. Nasus gets destroyed my Vlad Riven see my previous comment Sion is also a joke easy to avoid, easy to play around, and you can easily harass him out of lane. Shyvana see sion Swain is one of those times you want to take ignite as vlad but it can be a skill match-up as well, namely can vlad out sustain swains mana when he ults. Vlad can easily destroy teemo with his sustain as long as he doesn't give Teemo a crap ton of time to AA him. Wukong is a skill match-up mainly hinging on how well he uses his clone. Panth I agree Diana is a joke to destroy pre-6 to the point she will be irrelevant once she hits 6. Olaf easy if you can dodge his axes he will never get close to you. Fiora can be tough but if you pool her ult as soon as she casts it and kite after she lunges you can win it. Rumble you beat in lane but he does more in team fights because of his ults.

Vlad is really better top lane than he is given credit for but most people are not running with a build that complements in playstyle and instead either go 21/9/0 set up and try to be glass cannon or 9/21/0 to try and be an immovable object. Neither are optimal and neither really work well with how vlad plays.

I get the feeling you don't play Vlad very often. Gnar does max health damage, has better range, is innately tanky. To say Vlad beats him is just plain dumb. I understand that any match up can be won, but to say some champions don't have advantages over others is just silly.

Maokai charges up his passive as you use spells. The more Vlad sustains, the more Maokai sustains. Get it? He also does waaaaaay more damage than Vlad early on.

Sion, Nasus, Renek, Garen, etc can all just build item 3211 and basically force it into a farm lane, OR they can be smart and go aggressive and destroy you.

MartyrofsandMar 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Maokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t2sjfJW6,comment-id=000f00010001,timestamp=2015-03-26T23:29:34.246+0000)

I get the feeling you don't play Vlad very often. Gnar does max health damage, has better range, is innately tanky. To say Vlad beats him is just plain dumb. I understand that any match up can be won, but to say some champions don't have advantages over others is just silly.

Maokai charges up his passive as you use spells. The more Vlad sustains, the more Maokai sustains. Get it? He also does waaaaaay more damage than Vlad early on.

Sion, Nasus, Renek, Garen, etc can all just build and basically force it into a farm lane, OR they can be smart and go aggressive and destroy you.

Actually the top lane champs I play with any consistency are Irelia/Vlad/Mao/Renek. Gnar does scaling health damage but there is a reason I said if you use brush well. The thing you are not realizing is the set up I recommended has vlad going into lane, generally, with boots+4 pots wihle Gnar tends to show up with dorans blade and 1 pot. You get into brush, and AA+Q gnar and then go back into the brush, and of course come out to last hit as needed. You will out sustain gnar with your pots and the healing from Q making it a rather easy lane to win if you play right.

Against Maokai he does have ok sustain with his passive but in the early game it's only going to be healing him for around 80 or so HP, I mean he tends to go to the lane with between 550-600 HP which means his passive heals him for 42 health and vlad does a baseline 90 damage with his Q and up to 120 with his E...it isn't hard for him to win this fight, the biggest thing is to just dodge the sapling in the early levels, IE 1-3, as his W and Q are not big hitters, 9% of your max health early game isn't as much as it sounds and his Q does less than vlads Q. Also Mao tends to show up with Dorans Ring and 2 pots vs boots 4 pots, once against Vlads sustain wins out.

Sure you can buy item 3211 and you will live a bit longer in lane but Vlads harass becomes so frequent it really doesn't matter. As long as vlad positions smart, doesn't' get caught in their CC he wins very easily. Aside for Renek those are all champs that physically have to run to you to hit you with anything beyond Sions Q or E, both of which are easily dodgeable, and by the time Nasus has wither to try and get to you you should of already whittled him out of the lane and gained a lead to the point it doesn't matter. As I said about Garen he is a joke, it's very easy to kite him with the amount of move speed you go to lane with and even easier to constantly harass him and keep his passive off. There is literally zero reason Vlad should lose any of those match-ups you mentioned beyond Vlad not understanding or knowing how to play them, his opponents simply being better than him, or potentially jungle pressure.

Aatrox HerselfMar 26, 20152 votes

Yep pain in the ass when he pools as your about to kill him. Than goes to safety under tower and has massive regen from e spamming

GorgiolioMar 26, 20151 votes

You mean Q spamming? E only increases it, and is kinda meh with spell vamp.

Takeuchi 17Mar 26, 20151 votes

his e doesnt give him regen, it costs him health. the more he uses e the more life steal he'll get with q, but his q will initially have ridiculous cd which is why he wont use e too often until most of his stacks are on q. harassing him early and denying him farm is how to keep him shut down.

his troll pool also has a very long cd so keep that in mind when he uses it. push him under turret to deny him farm and he cant do much at all. dont tower dive him cuz he'll just troll pool. hes really not that bad especially if you take ignite.

edit: meant to be in response to this

Yep pain in the ass when he pools as your about to kill him. Than goes to safety under tower and has massive regen from e spamming

galdameshMar 26, 20152 votes

but he's SUPER susceptible to those early all ins that's how he's balanced.

playing a weak early top that can't beat him pre 9 (most of the time he is losing lane untill he maxes q) he is forced to push to sustain against most tops, (casting e to increase the heal value on his q), so have your jungler gank him. weak early top and weak early jungler so no ganks? you lost the champ select mini game and if you are in draft, your team deserves the disadvantage. Blind pick is very hard to balance around with the older polar champions who are basically enough stats to be usefull or not.

RookPusherMar 26, 20151 votes

I agree with you. I never get a match-up against him so I can't speak to that too much, but when we get to mid-game he *always *seems like a problem. I'm surprised it doesn't come up more often.

SaiannaMar 26, 20151 votes

Vlad is really annoying to play vs only if he's feed. Also Swain & Fiddle are pretty good counters vs him

SerevasMar 26, 20151 votes

Just play a standard lane bully into the matchup, that and/or a jungler that ganks fairly well early, vlad will curl up into a ball and cry, not to mention be largely useless if you can keep shoving him out of the lane.

Takeuchi 17Mar 26, 20151 votes

deny him farm and he has no sustain. the cd on his q is pretty significant so just harass him as much as possible after he uses it, his abilities are also not "resourceless" they require him to sacrifice his own health to use. force him to use his troll pool and let your jungler know when its down. take summoner 14 .

he has plenty of counters too. malz, maokai, jarvan, irelia, cho, jayce. anyone who can poke him and engage just be smart.

I had a phase where i mained vlad top for a while. hes really not that bad just dont feed him and harass him as much as possible and he wont be able to do a thing.

UPfreelyMar 26, 20151 votes

most champions who arn't mana gated feel horrible to play against, even a good garen.

OperationDEEZ1Mar 26, 20151 votes

play jungle against Shaco and then come talk to me scrub

DanofDemaciaMar 26, 20151 votes

i Personally just think he needs higher cds and he'll be fine

DedriusMar 26, 20151 votes

I feel like if his Cooldowns were higher then he would just be weak, which is not what I would like to see either. I would just like more room for counterplay against him and variability in his playstyle when playing him.

The Bearded BardMar 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I feel like if his Cooldowns were higher then he would just be weak, which is not what I would like to see either. I would just like more room for counterplay against him and variability in his playstyle when playing him.

I don't think you're listening. There is a crazy amount of counterplay to him. Literally every decision you make you can use to counter Vlad, playstyle, champion select, itemization, even the summoner spell you take. You're complaining about his early game, that's his weakest part of the game and he's very easy to take advantage of at that time.

DedriusMar 26, 20151 votes

I haven't heard that much counterplay to him aside from be aggressive early. Obviously ignite negates his sustain but I can use that once every 3 minutes or so. I'm saying the problem I have is that if I don't pick a strong early game champ, lets say I pick Katarina and he then picks Vlad and goes mid against me, there is very little I can do to outplay him. He will sustain my poke and push me out of lane with no real counterplay other than me igniting him and trying to all in him on a trade I'm bound to lose. If I am forced to build morello on Kat just for grievous wounds then I am wasting a good amount of gold on an item just for the smallest piece when the rest of the item is fairly useless for a champ that doesn't use mana.

I just feel that champ select should not dictate whether you win or lose a lane. Even when I play irelia and they pick Darius against me who is her biggest counter, I have a chance to outplay him and win the lane. All Vlad needs to do is poke me and sustain until I have to back if I don't spam early game powerhouses in champ select.

The Bearded BardMar 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I haven't heard that much counterplay to him aside from be aggressive early. Obviously ignite negates his sustain but I can use that once every 3 minutes or so. I'm saying the problem I have is that if I don't pick a strong early game champ, lets say I pick Katarina and he then picks Vlad and goes mid against me, there is very little I can do to outplay him. He will sustain my poke and push me out of lane with no real counterplay other than me igniting him and trying to all in him on a trade I'm bound to lose. If I am forced to build morello on Kat just for grievous wounds then I am wasting a good amount of gold on an item just for the smallest piece when the rest of the item is fairly useless for a champ that doesn't use mana.

I just feel that champ select should not dictate whether you win or lose a lane. Even when I play irelia and they pick Darius against me who is her biggest counter, I have a chance to outplay him and win the lane. All Vlad needs to do is poke me and sustain until I have to back if I don't spam early game powerhouses in champ select.

.... why would you need morellos on Kat? She already has grevious on her ult. Basically what you're complaining about is you don't like Vlad. I'm sorry to hear that, but I and others have given you tons of advice on how to beat him. Not my problem if you choose not to use it.

femméMar 26, 20151 votes

in my experience, vlads tend to be cocky and auto attack while spamming abilities until i hit a lvl power spike (say six) and just smash his squishy corpse into hte ground.

JedenVojakMar 26, 20151 votes

Vlad is kinda annoying, but it's the same paradigm as ADCs really.

item 3153 item 3072 item 3065

Actually since he has to spend HP to cast stuff, really all you have to do is... hurt him. Which is kinda weird, but champs like Teemo and Darius who put out some decent sustained damage, can hurt him pretty bad early, and bursty champs like Riven can blow him up before he can sustain. Also, there's summoner 14 and item 3165 .

MorukilMar 26, 20151 votes

I have played Vlad top exclusively since I came back after a long break. He is incredibly powerful, at least when I use him, I cant speak for the experiences of others. The key to Vlad is his e. Spamming vs not spamming needs to be a more meaningful decision, both in lane and in the late game. I would say increase the health cost at lower levels and have the stacks boost the AP ratio of the e slightly at higher levels.

X SkeletonCandyMar 26, 20151 votes

Play Xin, dumpster Vlad.