"ADC in 2017 LUL" meanwhile ranged ADs being played competitively in 5/5 roles LUL

FalconPawwwwnch·Feb 13, 2017·133 votes·5,782 views

Top - Jayce/Quinn Jungle - Graves Mid - Corki/Varus AD - Lol Support - MF

104 Comments

SkorchFeb 13, 201751 votes

That meme is multiple patches old guy. It is now a meme of a meme where people only say it when their ADC is doing bad. 2 to 3 patches ago it was true. Now its a self involving joke.

Get off the Lethality circlejerk bullshit already. We get it, Riot gets it. Lethality is strong. Give them a godamn minute to gather intel before you make HALF of the front posts about Edge/Lethality/Range OP.

Tribbles FoxfolkFeb 13, 201721 votes

{quoted}

That meme is multiple patches old guy. It is now a meme of a meme where people only say it when their ADC is doing bad. 2 to 3 patches ago it was true. Now its a self involving joke.

Get off the Lethality circlejerk bullshit already. We get it, Riot gets it. Lethality is strong. Give them a godamn minute to gather intel before you make HALF of the front posts about Edge/Lethality/Range OP.

No, seriously, this "we get it, just stop" mentality is CANCER. That encourages Riot to phalanx us and just wait for us to give up so they can continue their antics at no penalty. (cough Activision/EA/Ubisoft/any Triple-A company ever cough)

If HALF of the front posts are bitching about Lethality/Edge of Night/Ranged, shouldn't that mean there's a problem, especially when the "bitching" is consistent? Yeah, people circlejerk sometimes; it happens. But the circlejerk rarely starts for no reason. Remember for weeks on end how at least 1/4th of the threads on the front page were going on and on about how OP Vayne was? Guess what; she was! And it took a while, but Riot was forced to drop the stonewall and give in with some Vayne nerfs. (read "nerfs" as "reversion of a totally unnecessary buff")

SkorchFeb 13, 201728 votes

Yes there is a problem and I am positive RIOT KNOWS. People mistake Riot taking a patch or 2 and analyzing HOW to nerf things. For Riot ignoring thier fanbase. When in actuality its to try to get it in a balanced spot instead of just Too strong > Too weak > Too strong. They'd rather have it be Too strong > Too strong > balanced. It takes longer but works.

Vayne didnt get nerfed because of the boards, she got nerfed because she was in the top 2 ADCs with a 53% winrate. Stop patting yourselves on the back for saying things EVERYONE KNOWS then when it happens you are like "SEE I WAS RIGHT" and EVERYONE says "NO SHIT YOU WERE RIGHT EVERYONE KNOWS THIS"

Riot cant just change things perfectly by the snap of their fingers. It may take 1 or 2 patches before Lethality gets changed BUT ITS NOT RIOT BEING STUBBORN. Its gathering data FFS. It is downright moronic how many posts there are about edge of night and lethality.

And SOME circlejerks DO start for no reason: Might i remind you of Shaco nerfs being outraged when he was sitting on 56% winrate at top jungle. And the reason for this outrage was "They changed AD and now they are nerfing AP, what gives"

LeonerdoFeb 13, 201712 votes

Riot is not like any AAA company, except maybe Blizzard. EA/Ubisoft/etc don't listen to their players at all, Riot does. I don't even know why you're questioning it, it's everywhere. Riot makes articles on "Nexus" to explain their thinking, they do Q&As, they make Dev Corner discussions to gather feedback on upcoming class reworks, they have changed direction due to feedback (hello Solo Queue), and what the fuck do you think the PBE is for if not for gathering feedback from players.

Speaking of which, Lethality nerfs are already being tested on the PBE. There's no point in spamming the front page, when the changes you want are already happening.

deluggasFeb 14, 20173 votes

Well put [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Oh, and greetings from Germany, also to Trin and the BLC. Love you guys in the vids ;)

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 15, 20171 votes

Hehe "soloq". "Feedback". You mean one year of constant terror on boards and reddit. And still riot only gave us "duoQ" and even worse, not even the old duoQ, no. Now there are TWO duos per team allowed when it once was one duo per team. Great. fucking. job. riot. Here have the medal of honor.

SkorchFeb 15, 20171 votes

They gave it back to you didnt they, I wouldve just told people who can only play soloq to suck it up or leave.

Honestly who actually cares that there are 2 Duos per team, that is ALSO just faster matchmaking.

VenomarFeb 14, 20173 votes

If you break your leg and the cry "ow my leg ow my leg ow my leg" the whole way to the hospital. Your leg won't magically become unbroken and the doctor won't fix it any sooner.

Homie was just saying, wait till we get to the damned hospital. If we get there and they put your arm in a sling, okay, time to pop off, but we gotta get there first.

Riot knows, they aren't retarded.

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That meme is multiple patches old guy. It is now a meme of a meme where people only say it when their ADC is doing bad. 2 to 3 patches ago it was true. Now its a self involving joke.

Get off the Lethality circlejerk bullshit already. We get it, Riot gets it. Lethality is strong. Give them a godamn minute to gather intel before you make HALF of the front posts about Edge/Lethality/Range OP.

umm isn't that what the pbe is for?

SkorchFeb 13, 20176 votes

Sort of, Riot doesnt put things on the pbe to analyze and test, usually. From my understanding Riot actually has their own server. Like a PAE (instead of Public Beta Environment a Private Alpha Environment)

From my beleif on what i THINK the method is: Lethality is implemented Lethality becomes HORRENDOUSLY weak Lethality gets buffed Items with Lethality on them become TOO strong due to gold efficency or etc.

Riot analyzes what IS wrong with lethality items (can you get the to early so we need to tweak the build path/total cost? Or are they just TOO gold efficient? Do we nerf the AD on them or are the actives too strong? Compared to 1 or 2 seasons ago the active was stronger, but how has all the metas since then affected this active?) They analyze off the Live servers for sample size reasons. This probably takes the bulk of the time taking usually multiple weeks

They than think they have an idea on what needs to be fixed and tweaks the code to change the Items The amount of time this takes is a toss up. Depending how long they debate on what DOES need to be fixed

They then try out the items in the PAE to see if the item is still closer to what they want (knowing tech they may be able to have the 2 separate patch items and compare them within seconds, while for us without that ability it takes much longer to test) and also for some strange reason if there are any glaringly obvious bugs out of nowhere I assume there are many tests they run through so this probably takes a few days

The changes then roll out on the PBE for a larger sample size and maybe for some player feedback. If you look the PBE changes usually start with a drastic change then from the pbe will change slightly over the course of the PBE The PBE lasts 2 weeks aka 1 patch

THEN the patch rolls out after maybe a few number tweaks.

So over all there is a lot more testing and analytics before changes get to the PBE. A LOT of thought goes into changes before they hit PBE. Riot doesnt throw out random changes that MIGHT fix the issue.

Also a thing to take from this is it takes around 3 to 4 weeks to properly fix things. That is why in all the patch notes they usually say "This is what we are looking into for the next few patches" Because it takes multiple to fix issues.

Of course the method IS TECHNICALLY speculation but i think you get the picture if you read the whole thing

TLDR i guess: IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO PROCESS BALANCING.

Snowman ArcFeb 14, 20174 votes

And the funny thing is that ADCs were never really weak, they just didn't have a strong early game like other caster champions did, and because of the meta shifts and assassins running around, they had a hard time, but for the most part, it was just an excuse for an ADC doing bad.

SkorchFeb 14, 20172 votes

No I will definetly say that (while marksmen themselves werent weak) The meta shifts at the start of the season SEVERELY fucked them. I said in a post back then not to buff ADCs but instead force a meta shift so that 4 manning the bot and taking a free turret wasnt the meta.

And games WERE ending (and probably still are) at 20-25 min not NEAR long enough for ADCs to be at all relevant.

LlehctimFeb 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

That meme is multiple patches old guy. It is now a meme of a meme where people only say it when their ADC is doing bad. 2 to 3 patches ago it was true. Now its a self involving joke.

Get off the Lethality circlejerk bullshit already. We get it, Riot gets it. Lethality is strong. Give them a godamn minute to gather intel before you make HALF of the front posts about Edge/Lethality/Range OP.

It was never true, that's why the rest of us laugh at you adc sympathisers.

ADC "weak" = still mandatory on both teams in 99% of matches. Riot has really created a toxic group of players by babysitting ADC players since season 2.

What a joke.

SkorchFeb 14, 20172 votes

No offense but everytime i see someone saying adcs deserve to be gutted for the ONLY reason being "They are mandatory" I wanna punch them in the mouth.

Arya RivenFeb 13, 201719 votes

And another perpetual circlejerk continues. The boards will continue permanently patting one another on the back saying "omg yis u r rite!"

AMYS GRAVEFeb 13, 20174 votes

OMG so true.

NineTailedMysticFeb 14, 20176 votes

Because the community that agrees will upvote, thus giving it more visibility which leads to more upvotes? Of course, you'll get dissenters who will argue the point that the OP makes, but it's not like the Boards are a writhing mass, it's a conglomeration who have different opinions where the least happy speak up and get things seen.

NiyumiFeb 14, 201717 votes

ADCs are not, nor were they ever, weak. People just build glass cannon and expect to not get oneshot.

AhristocatsFeb 13, 201711 votes

You forgot

Top: quinn Jungle: twitch Mid: quinn

Guyy FieriFeb 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t25jcs28,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-02-13T19:10:43.082+0000)

You forgot

Top: quinn Jungle: twitch Mid: quinn, Jhin(played in master and was played in lcs some times)

Nobody played Jhin mid in lcs lulz

AhristocatsFeb 13, 20171 votes

really? i'll remove it then

HeresyHorusFeb 13, 20171 votes

Jhin works mid, and he works better than 4 ap champs i know mid.

lets see if u can guess them .

[slayer-jinx-wink]

NineTailedMysticFeb 14, 20173 votes

Jhin only works mid if the laner is awful.

ExalomaniacFeb 14, 20172 votes

just have a yasuo play against him and he'll cry his eyes out

Guyy FieriFeb 13, 20179 votes

Jayce isn't an ADC tho.... sure he's ranged ad but he's a fighter

Critmaster GarenFeb 13, 201712 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gnarles Barkleyy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t25jcs28,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-02-13T19:46:29.395+0000)

Jayce isn't an ADC tho.... sure he's ranged ad but he's a fighter

fighter my ass.

most of his playstile is spamming q's from 1500 range. when hes staying in cannon form almost the entire time, hes more of a ranged carry than a melee assassin.

really the only time he goes into hammer stance is to finish someone off after pelting him enough with shock blasts and ranged w buffed auto attacks to get him into kill range.

AcidTheWarlockFeb 13, 20173 votes

And that's wrong. Nidalee and Elise are forced to use their melee forms if they want to commit hard and Jayce can just kill you with a stupidly long range Q. Nidalee's Q has long range but it's single target, unlike Jayce's Dumbass Blast.

PermabannedGarenFeb 14, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t25jcs28,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-02-13T22:31:38.628+0000)

fighter my ass.

most of his playstile is spamming q's from 1500 range. when hes staying in cannon form almost the entire time, hes more of a ranged carry than a melee assassin.

really the only time he goes into hammer stance is to finish someone off after pelting him enough with shock blasts and ranged w buffed auto attacks to get him into kill range.

Jayce isn't an ADC because he can't carry late game. His scaling is literally ballsack.

"But dude his Q poke". His Q poke fucking sucks late game lol.

Xerath's Q is the same range, can be done more often, does more damage per cast, and get this, he has other abilities that synergize with that Q so he's much better at poking. Xerath is an actual late game poke champion.

Jayce in ranged form is a shitty version of Xerath late game. In melee form, he's a shitty version of, idk, Yasuo or something. Being half shitty artillery mage and half shitty skirmisher late game is not equal to being a good example of one or the other at that point. Jayce mostly spams his poke late game because going into melee form and jumping into the thick of the action is nearly suicidal. His poke is shitty late game, but at least it's safe.

Jayce isn't an ADC, but he does need some big boy nerfs, because his laning phase is insanely oppressive, and he snowballs very hard and very easily. But the champion is actually a piece of shit late game.

Critmaster GarenFeb 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Jayce isn't an ADC because he can't carry late game. His scaling is literally ballsack.

"But dude his Q poke". His Q poke fucking sucks late game lol.

Xerath's Q is the same range, can be done more often, does more damage per cast, and get this, he has other abilities that synergize with that Q so he's much better at poking. Xerath is an actual late game poke champion.

Jayce in ranged form is a shitty version of Xerath late game. In melee form, he's a shitty version of, idk, Yasuo or something. Being half shitty artillery mage and half shitty skirmisher late game is not equal to being a good example of one or the other at that point. Jayce mostly spams his poke late game because going into melee form and jumping into the thick of the action is nearly suicidal. His poke is shitty late game, but at least it's safe.

Jayce isn't an ADC, but he does need some big boy nerfs, because his laning phase is insanely oppressive, and he snowballs very hard and very easily. But the champion is actually a piece of shit late game.

a lategame shock blast on a full lethality build will easily take more than 50% of a squishy enemies health.

hit 2 or 3 on them even on different targets, and its usually enough to force the enemy team off an objective.

jayce carries like an artillery mage latgame. its not much different than a lux fishing for binds. there is also no reason for him to really commit to a fight in hammer stance most of the time.

the point im making is, that when he builds 100% ad glass cannon and spends 80% of the time in cannon form poking from long range, hes clearly not a fucking fighter first, like some people claimed in this thread.

Guyy FieriFeb 14, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t25jcs28,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-02-13T22:31:38.628+0000)

fighter my ass.

most of his playstile is spamming q's from 1500 range. when hes staying in cannon form almost the entire time, hes more of a ranged carry than a melee assassin.

really the only time he goes into hammer stance is to finish someone off after pelting him enough with shock blasts and ranged w buffed auto attacks to get him into kill range.

Good Jayce players do more than just spam E-Q combos...good Jayce players pressure hard

RivuoFeb 13, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Top - Jayce/Quinn Jungle - Graves Mid - Corki/Varus AD - Lol Support - MF

Can i be honest with you?

Did you notice something stupid?

You put ''ADC IN 2017 LUL'' to make fun of the meme because there are 5 of those champs being played in all lane.

#1 ADC is bot lane. The correct term you are referring to is marksmen, Not adc. #2 The ADC lane itself is what is fucking dumb to deal with, because if you get behind ( which is easy from the 4-5 man ganks ) you are not only under leveled ( because you share exp with a support ) more than you should be, you also dont have as much gold from the constant harass as opposed to a solo lane.

#3 Lets stop being idiots. Graves corki and quinn are the last thing from ADCs ( In your context ). Being a ranged champ that builds AD doesnt make them an ADC for bot lane. Thats why you see Corki mid better than bot. Thats why you see graves better than bot.

You just clusterfuck every ranged AD champ into one role and say ''lel why they played everywhere''

Critmaster GarenFeb 13, 201714 votes

{quoted}

Can i be honest with you?

Did you notice something stupid?

You put ''ADC IN 2017 LUL'' to make fun of the meme because there are 5 of those champs being played in all lane.

#1 ADC is bot lane.

no. "adc" is an abbreviation for "attack damage carries". most marksmen are adc, but the term is not equal to "bot lane" or makrsmen and "bot lane" at least shouldnt automatically mean marksmen.

yi is an adc. fiora is an adc. darius could be considered an adc.

it has shit to do with the duo lane.

every champion he listed is a ranged adc. so op is entirely correct. he also forgot twitch in the jungle.

rtbf221651412Feb 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t25jcs28,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2017-02-13T22:35:59.629+0000)

no. "adc" is an abbreviation for "attack damage carries". most marksmen are adc, but the term is not equal to "bot lane" or makrsmen and "bot lane" at least shouldnt automatically mean marksmen.

yi is an adc. fiora is an adc. darius could be considered an adc.

it has shit to do with the duo lane.

every champion he listed is a ranged adc. so op is entirely correct. he also forgot twitch in the jungle.

Jayce is a terrible adc if you even attempt to adc with him.

Not to mention he is primarily a fighter to begin with.

And has terrible late game scaling.

Which is the point of an adc, to have late game scaling.

Umbra IoniaFeb 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

And has terrible late game scaling.

OK!

Snowman ArcFeb 14, 20176 votes

Yeah but the ADC in 2k17 lul meme was referencing to the champions that fileld the ADC role in the bottom lane, so that would be Sivir, Lucian, Caitlyn, Varus, Jhin etc. You rarely ever would see Graves or Quinn bottom lane, so that's why we don't include them in the traditional ADC group. Stop trying to be smartasses, the guy has a point.

dunder killFeb 13, 20175 votes

As opposed to mages being (and still are) viable in every role too? Like even the specific AD role got taken over by a mage Ziggs

NineTailedMysticFeb 14, 20172 votes

Rip AP junglers.

dunder killFeb 14, 20172 votes

Elise

GelmousFeb 14, 20175 votes

i don't know who came up with the miss fortune support but it is the dumbest support pick i ever seen, all the way from silver to high plat i never seen it work, you're just a troll pick if you go mf support

The DeckownerFeb 14, 20174 votes

MF support is a specific counterpick to zyra, invented by the koreans.

GelmousFeb 14, 20172 votes

well OP should scratch that off if mf counters only one specific support

The DeckownerFeb 14, 20172 votes

she can also be play into most mage support and play as a mage support against tank and enchanter supports.

low elo sheeps just dont understand how to play her and straight up copy pros.

Yordle XayahFeb 14, 20174 votes

You are missing the very key aspect of this trend:

item 3142 item 3814

All of them build both (except Corki) Both items are broken on ranged champions. Nobody at Riot cares.

Move along.

10 fpsFeb 14, 20174 votes

I like how you didn't mention that all of the ADCs you stated abuse lethality which is very strong right now while the large portion of ADCs are trash because they can't abuse lethality. Also, Graves hasn't been an "adc" since his rework. He's more of a bruiser/assassin. Quinn is the same except she was trash before the lethality buff and had a really low play rate. When lethality gets nerfed, she's pretty much going right back to the trash bin.

But of course, this is boards. Your post can be nonsense but as long as you hate on ADCs you post will reach the front page.

KaiokoFeb 14, 20174 votes

The one issue I have -- every single ADC you pointed out abuses Lethality other than Corki (which has a different issue). So you're either one of those few ADCs or you're useless. That's the issue in 2017.

PennsFeb 13, 20173 votes

They are "bad" in solo q, not in pro play where they can actually scale. Wouldnt really count any of those as adc either tho tbh. Jayce is obvious, Graves is a ranged burst bruiser-thing, Corki/Varus are basically poke bots and MF is an armor shred mage support... thing.

The Yetii RiderFeb 14, 20172 votes

It's almost like competitive LoL is a completely different experience than the that of MILLIONS of actual players around the world.

SohleksFeb 14, 20172 votes

ADCs in a vacuum are fine. I've honestly always liked my Corki/Quinn/Varus whatever everywhere and even goofed with Caitlyn top. It's just the split exp 2v2 get roamed on experience that sucks which would suck for any not insta waveclear range champ if they tried to play bot lane carry and deal with random dynamics of 2v2 where randomly your partner and team is a doorknob. So the problem isn't the class IMO but the lane and exp dynamics and pressure ontop of the expectation some adc players have with their scaling and the dip they have to endure everygame (professionally atm such builds aren't the norm)...

and now I'm wondering... what if duo lanes got near full exp. "NNOOO BAD" hear me out. What if it turns out the support can play in other lanes now too? Then again actually I think the community would be against that level of change... they couldn't handle all that freedom since they've settled on this playstyle for years. Hard to predict what'll actually happen... but then I shortly realize my foolishness because supports will still stick with ranged carries almost always.

But if they had more EXP a tad more can be drained from their kits and more diversity could be possible. It is a direction wrought with risk but then again status quo lately has been chaotic yet always more of the same.

Probably a bit of an unnecessary approach to a class balance problem, uprooting the fundamentals of the game affecting laning.. jungling.. probably would be end up with too much roam farming as groups.