@Xypherous. Why Titanic Hydra is going to fail.

hashinshin·Aug 17, 2015·3 votes·3,501 views

Tiamat -> Ability user item. Hydra -> Ability user item. Titanic Hydra -> Auto attacker item?

Just how many high health auto attackers are there in LoL? You have Shyvana.... and ... Shyvana? Even Olaf tends to use abilities more than he auto attacks. Even Darius is having all his attack speed removed in the rework.

You really missed the mark on this one. This is basically gunblade all over again, an item built specifically for basically one champion.

In order to use Titanic you need: A large health pool. Attack speed already in your kit (or at least the ability to multi hit like Shyvana.) You need to use auto attacks for the overwhelming majority of your damage, or Hydra will deal more damage. You need to be melee. You don't do enough damage on autos that Hydra's AoE lifesteal would be better.

Seems niche.

26 Comments

Mecha MaIphiteAug 17, 20157 votes

Shen Waveclear at last... hehehehuehuehuejajajajaHAHAHAHAHA

SasogwaAug 17, 20154 votes

Darius Sion Garen JarvanIV DrMundo LeeSin Olaf Renekton , tank MonkeyKing can all make use of that item. To different degrees of success, but it's actually a decent juggernaught item.

Yes, this is on-hit so it looks like it benefits a lot from AS, but actually the value of the active is pretty high -10% of max health- so that you actually don't really need AS to benefit well of this item.

hashinshinAug 17, 20153 votes

Darius's new Q has a 0.75 animation time. Sion spends half the game in his Q animation. Garen uses his judgement how the fuck do you even count him? Jarvan might count. Mundo builds full tank, the fuck? Lee uses BC. Olaf uses BC. Renekton might count, but uses BC. Wukong? Dude, Wukong uses his ult when does he auto attack?

The item only procs on ATTACK. Not on ability hit. On ATTACK. I think you didn't realize that.

SasogwaAug 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Darius's new Q has a 0.75 animation time. Sion spends half the game in his Q animation. Garen uses his judgement how the fuck do you even count him? Jarvan might count. Mundo builds full tank, the fuck? Lee uses BC. Olaf uses BC. Renekton might count, but uses BC. Wukong? Dude, Wukong uses his ult when does he auto attack?

The item only procs on ATTACK. Not on ability hit. On ATTACK. I think you didn't realize that.

It still has the auto-attack reset active of Hydra. And this one has a much higher %health ratio than the ratio on autoattacks.

UNIQUE – CRESCENT: On your next attack, Cleave's damage to all targets is increased to 40 (+10% of your maximum health) and the area of effect is larger. Activating Crescent resets your attack timer. 20 second cooldown.

Also, for some reason Garen was patched so that Hydra doesn't interrupt his E (when Hydra wasn't a thing on him anyway, and it still isn't). But Titanic might be thanks to the %health scaling and the fact he'll probably build BC too and has higher AD ratio on E.

TLDR : You don't buy Titanic Hydra for his ratio on-hit, but for the active and stats, just like you do for Hydra.

The FastAug 17, 20153 votes

I think you underestimate the upfront damage on this item. The item is insanely good for front loading damage.

You can combo this item with AA modifying abilities for upfront burst, which, due to the lack of gapclosing methods on juggernauts, is heavily preferred.
Renekton gets 13% Max HP damage on an empowered W.
WuKong autoattacks both before and after his ult if he hasn't died, although I dont know if I'd build it on WuKong either. If you are building this item on Wu, you are also building BC, which pretty much makes it not a tank build anyway.
New Darius may have a Q cast time (That I'm pretty sure hydra can't cancel anyway), but Darius wants to front load his damage to get his ult and passive off, therefore comboing in this item would be much more helpful, especially since Darius has sustain built into his kit now.
I've never seen a hydra active on Sion while he charges Q, and I don't know what situations that would even be useful in. Although, I don't really think its better than buying BC on him, and I wouldn't build more than one offensive item on Sion.
Titanic Hydra is ALSO a full auto attack reset, unlike hydra which is only usable to animation cancel. Which makes it amazing and borderline necessary on new Darius, whose attackspeed is so low, and passive so strong, that he needs all the auto resets he can get. It also partially addresses the issue of "need more attack speed."
I think Olaf can afford to get this item and BC, same with Renekton.

I generally agree that Garen and Lee won't get it, but Garen may be able to cheese a Q Titanic for massive burst. I think you are also underestimating the degree to which this item outscales Ravenous in terms of damage. At 3000 HP, the item does 35 Bonus Damage per auto with the occasional burst of 340. At 4000, you get 45 Bonus damage per auto, with the occasional burst of 440. This is excluding the fact that this item gives 400HP and 50AD.

Simply put, this is an on-hit item designed for upfront burst and waveclear, rather than the traditional attackspeed oriented on-hits.

Also, if his laning phase is good enough without early defense, this item and Shen will break the game. Giving the global presence tank split pusher late-game scaling waveclear and burst.

CrettAug 18, 20151 votes

I bursted ADCs from 100-0 as Sion with nothing but Titanic Hydra, thanks to the 500-600 HP nuke

The FastAug 18, 20152 votes

You can't say "nothing but" when Sion's base damages are really insane lol. His base damages alone are enough to burst ADCs, its just now he has more oomph with another lump of damage.

Knight SoIaire Aug 17, 20151 votes

you didnt mention volibear

SasogwaAug 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=syOPJOEE,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-08-17T12:31:08.991+0000)

you didnt mention volibear

Soz, had it in mind but forgot in the way. Also, Knight Kore has a point about Shen. This item could provide the waveclear he needs. Though I'm not sure its tanky stats are enough to justify it.

The FastAug 18, 20151 votes

I mean, it gives 400HP. That's not bad when you consider his other offensive item options. The only thing that really competes with this would be Trinity Force, which, while amazing, is expensive, and doesn't give waveclear.

A tank item that both provides waveclear, defensive stats, and offensive prowess may be exactly what shen needs to be broken. Either as a first or second item. There's the risk that he can't afford to build this item in lane though, so he'd have to wait until mid-game, or not at all.

BudupopsAug 17, 20153 votes

Skarner

ThatHaleStateAug 17, 20152 votes

Or you just use it on a fast auto attacker anyway and just get what extra dmg you get. PBE Yi's are blowing ppl up with it

Prospector PeteAug 17, 20151 votes

Olaf auto attacks quite a lot actually. And maybe volibear could make good use of it?

hashinshinAug 17, 20153 votes

Olaf builds BC. With BC your Q has a 1.1 second CD. With a standard 0.25 second animation that leaves you 0.85 seconds to auto her Q. Except then you have your E. That leaves you 0.6 seconds to auto.

Olaf does not auto attack a lot. He gets in one or two, but mostly focuses on his Q and E. If he loses his axe he can just stand an auto, but that's a shitty thing to build for. I build for when I play corrently and just chase people down with Qs, not for when I fuck up.

Maw and BC are FAR superior damage items to Titanic hydra. Maw also gives you your MR. That means you'd be comparing BC to Titanic. BC gives armor shred and 20% CDR and movement speed. Titanic Hydra gives... slightly more damage than Hydra on auto attacks, and less damage on abilities. Whoopey?

Prospector PeteAug 17, 20151 votes

Oh. I pretty much never play Olaf, so I didn't know.

UdoIkOSc4uAug 17, 20151 votes

i think that this would make olaf op not shyvana

IncognonymousAug 17, 20151 votes

I was thinking Volibear or Shen. Really not wild about the on hit being physical though. Naut also has a passive physical on hit.

thumbnail9Aug 17, 20151 votes

Actually the reason you don't see auto attackers is because they can't get tanky enough to survive auto attacking in a team fight.

Now that you have items like Gage, Titanic, Black Cleaver. You have Champions that suddenly have 3.5k HP while trying to beat you down and they also get damage for having 3.5k hp. It'll be like 70? I think I haven't looked in awhile.

Trundle can use it, Wukong can use it, Olaf, Shyvanna, Aatrox, Gangplank, Nasus, Nocturne, Rek'sai. There's some other pocket picks that benefit from it as well.

The FastAug 18, 20151 votes

I don't think Gage will be commonly built, and it definitely won't be built if you already have BC and Titanic. That'd be 3 items in with 0 resistances. Maybe as a last item, but after an armor/HP and mr/HP item, you'd probably want something more concrete then Sterak's Gage. Sterak's is only really for people who build Trinity Force and dive, like a Vi.

thumbnail9Aug 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=syOPJOEE,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-08-18T15:59:49.929+0000)

I don't think Gage will be commonly built, and it definitely won't be built if you already have BC and Titanic. That'd be 3 items in with 0 resistances. Maybe as a last item, but after an armor/HP and mr/HP item, you'd probably want something more concrete then Sterak's Gage. Sterak's is only really for people who build Trinity Force and dive, like a Vi.

If you think about it this way say a late game ADC perhaps. The flat HP alone doesn't do much only brings them up to around 24-2500 HP, but when the shield pops from getting blown up they gain 690+ HP shield to eat the brunt of the damage. There HP goes up to on average about 3090. That's a lot of damage to take.

Now think about certain bruiser's who will reach around 3.5k HP+ a good amount of res. You're looking at a 1050 damage shield. It also has a cool down that allows it to be used for pretty much every team fight and or scuffle.

The FastAug 18, 20151 votes

But its not an extra 690 to 1050 shield. It decays. In most situations that'd closer to half of that HP.

53436278DEL1Aug 17, 20151 votes

Aatrox

Call Me KhalAug 18, 20151 votes

I feel like Volibear can find some use for it. Renekton could pick it up if he doesn't want to go item 3074 , it still gives him a W reset and it'll scale even harder with his ult activated. Shen will get some decent waveclear with this as well. Agreed that it's pretty niche, but I'm glad it isn't a must grab on everyone.

The FastAug 18, 20151 votes

Titanic's Hydra is a full auto attack reset, as opposed to an Auto Attack cancel on Hydra. So Renekton can't cast titanic in the middle of W, but he can cast it as he Ws or combo it before/after.

Renekton gains 13% max HP damage on his W with the active, which by itself is insane. Thats almost an additional Volibear bites worth of damage, at minimum damage ofc.