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Enchanters are neglected more than anyone else

Moody P··17 votes·8,879 views

The upcoming champion being an enchanted does not mean we should forget that we haven't gotten a true dedicated enchanter since 2012 with Nami and that the class has been completely glossed over for reworks despite being as outdated as the vast majority of juggernauts (who are being updated more than anyone else, with mixed results.)

Enchanters have terrible gameplay patterns to the point that them even being viable as a solo lane is considered a red flag and gets either them or their strategy (Frostmancy as a recent example) nerfed. They are exceedingly low on interaction and counterplay and have a concerning amount of overlap with each other in regards to what they actually do. very few people actually like playing them; support is always the least picked role when Enchanters are the dominant class because Enchanters are not fun to play. Instead of fixing this Riot has just decided to make a bunch of super aggressive play maker supports.

Every enchanter, with exception of Soraka has at least three of these:

  • Healing
  • Shielding
  • Damage buff (either AD AS or an on hit effect)
  • MS/gap closing steroid (for allies, which is why Soraka is excluded)
  • A slow
  • Hard CC

Some of these are immutable characteristics of the enchanter class, of course. The problem comes here in that this is more or less all they do and there's too little actually differentiating them from each other, other than how hard they dip into those strengths. There's also way too many supports that are just complete generalists relative to what you need out of an Enchanter toolkit. This is amplified by how support items cater to exactly this now, so what ends up happening is that without specific and niche traits for each to have the good Enchanters are automatically the best.

I really hope that the new Enchanter is a disruption to this trend and a Herald of things to come. This class is far too neglected and another "more of the same" release is going to make me upset.

108 Comments

Wolfalisk31811 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-03-05T14:08:59.308+0000)

They are exceedingly low on interaction and counterplay [...]

In comparison to what? They are constantly interacting, they have vulnerability windows, and they die horrible deaths when they make mistakes.

If you want to talk about low interaction/counterplay let's talk about two Supports who have none of either: Thresh Pyke

Thresh and Pyke are free to make mistakes all laning phase that you can't capitalize on because they have no windows of meaningful vulnerability, but as soon as you make a single marginal mistake, you are dead against these Champions. This naturally precipitates a low-interaction lane because interacting with these Champions is done so at a disadvantage in almost every situation and you will lose the lane over it.

Why don't I include Blitzcrank in this? Because Blitzcrank's kit isn't wildly overloaded to the point of almost having two abilities packed into every spell. Thresh and Pyke are the two most overloaded and overpowered Champions in the entire game.

OtterlyLost4 votes

Thresh this is less accurate with than Pyke though Thresh is definitely always too strong. Seriously, he can do everything except heal and that's a problem that they really should look to remedy. Pyke, however, is definitely a case of low interaction; you can't poke him out because he can just back out and heal. You can't really chase or engage him because he'll just undertow you, stun you, and then stealth away. You kind of have to spend the entirety of laning phase waiting and praying that he'll engage and fuck it up. Because if he doesn't fuck it up, you're not likely to kill him.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER9 votes

“Low interaction and counter play”

You do realize anything that gets on top of you just automatically one shots you right? There’s a reason they have low base health and resistances in trade off for their ability to peel.

You pick hard engage champions like Alistar or Hecarim your life is pretty much doomed because you’re going to get one shot every time a single combo touches you.

Positioning is of the up most importance when playing an enchanter and they’re rewarded for it.

Also in regards to interaction, Nami is poke, Soraka players max E or 3 points, Janna players max W or 3 Points, Lulu players can max Q or 3 points, Karma players max Q. So this idea that enchanters are low interaction is also false. The only thing you can make a case for is Soraka E range but that’s about it.

GreenKnight6 votes

Most of enchanters were reworked in some way already, give them a break with those stupid designs.

Sure, they were neglected, and i felt that hard, seeing that i main supports, but it's all because of changing meta, and apparent "OPness" of shields and heals. Not to mention that there's only FIVE of them.

Most of people's gripes with them don't lie in how bad they feel to play (that's only your opinion and i will hardly disagree with you. Just because you don't find them fun, doesn't mean other's think that too), but in how they can change the tide of battle, while seemingly doing nothing.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

Most of enchanters were reworked in some way already, give them a break with those stupid designs.

Sure, they were neglected, and i felt that hard, seeing that i main supports, but it's all because of changing meta, and apparent "OPness" of shields and heals. Not to mention that there's only FIVE of them.

Most of people's gripes with them don't lie in how bad they feel to play (that's only your opinion and i will hardly disagree with you. Just because you don't find them fun, doesn't mean other's think that too), but in how they can change the tide of battle, while seemingly doing nothing.

Karma Lulu Janna Sona Soraka Zilean Nami

That's 7. And the latest of them was from 7 years ago. Riot gets no excuses.

Done253 votes

{quoted}

Karma Lulu Janna Sona Soraka Zilean Nami

That's 7. And the latest of them was from 7 years ago. Riot gets no excuses.

Zilean is technically a utility mage along the lines of Lux, Karma, and Orianna rather than a true blue enchanter ala Sona, Soraka, Nami, Janna.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Zilean is technically a utility mage along the lines of Lux, Karma, and Orianna rather than a true blue enchanter ala Sona, Soraka, Nami, Janna.

Aight, stop

Zilean: Enchanter Lux: Burst/Artillery Mage with a shield Orianna: Burst mage with a shield Karma: Enchanter

Utility mage isn't a class.

OtterlyLost2 votes

Zilean is specifically called a Controller which is what League itself has classified the entirety of supports as. Within the category of Controller, he falls under the Disruptor class. Not the Enchanter one. So no. Zilean is not an enchanter.

Edit: My Source: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

And the section specifically on Disruptors:

We initially called this subclass ‘control mages’ but realized that could be expanded to the entire group (that and ‘Utility Mage’ wasn’t a very good Class name). Disruptors specialize in locking down opponents or, in some cases, entire battlefields by creating intense zones of threat that only foolish enemies would dare wade through. Although not as reliant on their friends as Enchanters, the fragile and immobile Disruptors greatly benefit from allied presence - both to deter incoming danger and to help capitalize on targets they’ve locked down.

Utility Mage is a class that, at one time, existed and is what Zilean used to be called. They were also called Control Mages, which is what Zilean is. .-.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Zilean is specifically called a Controller which is what League itself has classified the entirety of supports as. Within the category of Controller, he falls under the Disruptor class. Not the Enchanter one. So no. Zilean is not an enchanter.

Edit: My Source: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

?

OtterlyLost1 votes

Then he is a Catcher. He is not an enchanter; he plays much more closely to the likes of Morgana and Thresh than he does to Lulu or Nami.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Then he is a Catcher. He is not an enchanter; he plays much more closely to the likes of Morgana and Thresh than he does to Lulu or Nami.

It LITERALLY says Zilean's an enchanter and you just won't stop being extra.

Aight. You do you.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Then he is a Catcher. He is not an enchanter; he plays much more closely to the likes of Morgana and Thresh than he does to Lulu or Nami.

Nah, Catchers are champions who specialize in "catching out" enemies and putting them in a bad position. As far as I'm concerned the only real Catchers in the game are those who have reliable ranged pulls. That being:

Blitzcrank, Nautilus, Pyke, Talyia, and Thresh.

Otherwise we'd have to classify just about anyone with long lasting CC as a Catcher, which is kind of dumb.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Aight, stop

Zilean: Enchanter Lux: Burst/Artillery Mage with a shield Orianna: Burst mage with a shield Karma: Enchanter

Utility mage isn't a class.

Okay, so Zil's main thing, outside of R, is landing QQ for a massive AoE burst and stun. Each Q is 75 / 115 / 165 / 230 / 300 (+ 90% AP) damage. For reference Annie's QW combo is 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 (+ 80% AP) and 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 85% AP) damage respectively. Zil's base combo hits HARDER than Annie's, and he gets to max out at level 9 while she has to wait until 13.

We're not talking about Soraka Q with it's piddly 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+ 35% AP) damage and tiny hit zone. Zil HURTS. If 600+180% AP in a rather large AoE zone at level 9 isn't enough to qualify him as a source of ranged ability damage then I have no idea who meets your standards.

Yes his R is a powerful utility tool, but it's also heavily based on someone actually dying for the effect to kick in as a balance.

Also, Utility Mage isn't a Riot class, but neither was Juggernaut for a long time. Karma, Lux, Morgana, Orianna, and Zilean all lack the raw "You die now" burst power and reliability of Annie's REQ combo or Ryze's DPS output, and they lack the defensive utility of "No one dies on my watch" that Soraka, Sona, and Janna bring. They're a medium between the two extremes that balance both damage and utility. So what else would you call them other than "utility mages"?

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Okay, so Zil's main thing, outside of R, is landing QQ for a massive AoE burst and stun. Each Q is 75 / 115 / 165 / 230 / 300 (+ 90% AP) damage. For reference Annie's QW combo is 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 (+ 80% AP) and 70 / 115 / 160 / 205 / 250 (+ 85% AP) damage respectively. Zil's base combo hits HARDER than Annie's, and he gets to max out at level 9 while she has to wait until 13.

We're not talking about Soraka Q with it's piddly 70 / 110 / 150 / 190 / 230 (+ 35% AP) damage and tiny hit zone. Zil HURTS. If 600+180% AP in a rather large AoE zone at level 9 isn't enough to qualify him as a source of ranged ability damage then I have no idea who meets your standards.

Yes his R is a powerful utility tool, but it's also heavily based on someone actually dying for the effect to kick in as a balance.

Also, Utility Mage isn't a Riot class, but neither was Juggernaut. Karma, Lux, Morgana, Orianna, and Zilean all lack the raw "You die now" power and reliability of Annie's REQ combo or Ryze's DPS output, and they lack the defensive utility of "No one dies on my watch" that Soraka, Sona, and Janna bring. They're a medium between the two extremes that balance both damage and utility. So what else would you call them other than "utility mages"?

Enchanters are buffing champs.

Zilean gifts exp, a GA, and MS speed on 3 of his 5 kit elements.

"He does so much damage with Q that he's not an encha-"

No. If I put damage on Sona, her 1-shotting dudes doesn't make her not an enchanter, either. Think through the whole thing, not just the first lap.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Enchanters are buffing champs.

Zilean gifts exp, a GA, and MS speed on 3 of his 5 kit elements.

"He does so much damage with Q that he's not an encha-"

No. If I put damage on Sona, her 1-shotting dudes doesn't make her not an enchanter, either. Think through the whole thing, not just the first lap.

If you made Sona one shot people every time she hit Q and took nothing else away that would just be super shitty balancing. Now if you took away her healing, made her only shield herself and the most hurt ally in range, and made her R only silence the enemy instead of stunning? Then she wouldn't be much of an enchanter anymore would she? At least not a very good one in comparison to Soraka or Nami.

Zilean's passive is barely a factor most of the time. The "GA" effect only only lasts 5 seconds and most people above Silver know how to kite it out. (Ps. This ability is why he's a utility mage and not a burst made like Annie.) Sona, Janna, Karma, Lulu, and Orianna all also offer speed boosts of various natures. So that's really nothing special about Zilean's speed boost. Hell, Lulu has something very similar with her ally or enemy targeting Whimsy. I would even argue that Whimsy is far stronger than Time Warp is.

Also, none of this disqualifies him from being a "Utility" mage. In other words: Someone who sacrifices some damage in order to bring utility to a team.

If I wasn't lazy and made a kit budget chart for ratio of damage vs utility it would looks something like:

100% Damage Vel'koz Brand Annie Orianna Lux Zilean Karma Sona Nami Soraka Janna 100% Utility

With burst mages types making the upper half and enchanters making up the lower half. Those who fall in the 50/50 ranges are "utility mages" for lack of any real official or more accurate term.

PS. Why wont you add me on Discord you nerd? D:<

I love cowboys6 votes

Good.

God forbid enchanters are allowed to be good ever again, their kits are the most disgusting things in this game.

Moody P3 votes

My post literally says that they should be reworked.

I love cowboys1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-05T14:26:14.675+0000)

My post literally says that they should be reworked.

No thanks, I'd rather they stay in the dirt.

Sir Saltarin5 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nami/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Janna/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sona/Support/

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Soraka/Support/

In the dirt [slayer-jinx-wink]

Moody P1 votes

Did you change your name or just your icon

Sir Saltarin1 votes

Icon.

But since I only want to play MF on this acc I'll maybe change the name later, I wont buy more champs at all.

Moody P2 votes

Change it back it's messing with my head

Sir Saltarin1 votes

I would like to have this icon

https://avatar.leagueoflegends.com/lan/Crylet.png

But sadly that's on other acc that I cant use here anymore

Abibyama II1 votes

Join the doggo side

Sir Saltarin2 votes

Cats > Doggos

Abibyama II1 votes

No u >:(

Sir Saltarin1 votes

See?

And as expected the two Cat skins are clearly superior than the Dog skins.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T19:46:28.567+0000)

See?

And as expected the two Cat skins are clearly superior than the Dog skins.

Nah, Corki and Fizz's skins are great. Fuck off, Saltran.

Also: Sup, Saltran.

Abibyama II1 votes

Ajax played some good football especially that freekick

Sir Saltarin1 votes

That was beautiful to watch

¿Dónde está serresiete?, ¿serresiete dónde está?

GreenKnight16 votes

[{quoted}](name=I love cowboys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-05T14:25:15.682+0000)

Good.

God forbid enchanters are allowed to be good ever again, their kits are the most disgusting things in this game.

Says the guy running Brand support. I mean, honestly.

I love cowboys4 votes

{quoted}

Says the guy running Brand support. I mean, honestly.

Astute judgment, I played 5 games of Brand to level up. Clearly, I have an agenda.

GreenKnight4 votes

[{quoted}](name=I love cowboys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-03-05T14:34:58.467+0000)

Astute judgment, I played 5 games of Brand to level up. Clearly, I have an agenda.

Better than your "enchanters are shit because reasons". Look, Brand is much, MUCH more annoying to deal with, than any enchanter in the game. He has a really good poke, stun, passive and ult that decimates everything even on low levels. While Sona might have poke, heals and a stun, she's also made of freaking paper, and Brand can still take some amount of punishment

I love cowboys2 votes

{quoted}

Better than your "enchanters are shit because reasons". Look, Brand is much, MUCH more annoying to deal with, than any enchanter in the game. He has a really good poke, stun, passive and ult that decimates everything even on low levels. While Sona might have poke, heals and a stun, she's also made of freaking paper, Brand can still take some amount of punishment

I really don't give a shit about Brand, he can go into the dirt too for all I care. But he's no worse than Enchanterfest ardent meta, where the only skill a support needed was to point and click a shield on their adc and point and click cc on any enemy.

No thanks mate, I'll take Thresh and Pyke instead.

GreenKnight8 votes

[{quoted}](name=I love cowboys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T14:44:59.387+0000)

I really don't give a shit about Brand, he can go into the dirt too for all I care. But he's no worse than Enchanterfest ardent meta, where the only skill a support needed was to point and click a shield on their adc and point and click cc on any enemy.

No thanks mate, I'll take Thresh and Pyke instead.

Ardent was nerfed a looooong time ago, "mate". You are just biased against enchanters, and if you think they take no skill, try playing Nami.

I love cowboys1 votes

{quoted}

Ardent was nerfed a looooong time ago, "mate".

Yeah, and a whole season was fucking garbage thanks to it.

You are just biased against enchanters, and if you think they take no skill, try playing Nami.

Wow, a couple enchanters have a skillshot? What a concept, I guess Lulu and Janna take skill too.

GreenKnight6 votes

[{quoted}](name=I love cowboys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T14:52:15.572+0000)

Yeah, and a whole season was fucking garbage thanks to it.

Past long gone.

Wow, a couple enchanters have a skillshot? What a concept, I guess Lulu and Janna take skill too.

...yes, they do take a certain amount of skill to play. Try a couple of matches as them, and come back. I don't know your rank, but unskilled Janna will get trashed like any other champion.

I love cowboys2 votes

{quoted}

Past long gone.

Right, implying the very same Ardent supports aren't starting to take over now that crit items are decent again. At least right now solo laners have some chance of not getting steamrolled by an adc and their shieldbot, and assassins are actually capable of doing their job this time around.

...yes, they do take a certain amount of skill to play. Try a couple of matches as them, and come back. I don't know your rank, but unskilled Janna will get trashed like any other champion.

Yeah alright, you need two braincells to know how to position well. And you also need to manage to not fall asleep so you can ult and tornado whatever threats try to hit your adc. Maybe if you're a super pro you might even use w to poke. Truly... a massive... skillcap...

GreenKnight3 votes

[{quoted}](name=I love cowboys,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T15:52:03.024+0000)

Right, implying the very same Ardent supports aren't starting to take over now that crit items are decent again. At least right now solo laners have some chance of not getting steamrolled by an adc and their shieldbot, and assassins are actually capable of doing their job this time around.

Yeah alright, you need two braincells to know how to position well. And you also need to manage to not fall asleep so you can ult and tornado whatever threats try to hit your adc. Maybe if you're a super pro you might even use w to poke. Truly... a massive... skillcap...

Please, just go and play with them, ok?

Sir Saltarin2 votes

Nami takes no skill and it's broken on soloQ, not the best example at all.

The enchanter with higher skill ceilling is Lulu outside jokes.

GreenKnight6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-05T16:02:21.362+0000)

Nami takes no skill and it's broken on soloQ, not the best example at all.

The enchanter with higher skill ceilling is Lulu outside jokes.

Yeah, i can't agree with you. She's not the hardest, but she's not the easiest too. And she's certainly not OP.

Sir Saltarin3 votes

I say that she's the easiest enchanter to play because Nami is there on the top of champs with the most flat skill curves of the game

https://i.imgur.com/xnrIlGI_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&amp;shape=thumb&amp;fidelity=medium

And I say that she's op on soloQ because look at her stats there

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nami/

GreenKnight3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sxy7zxRM,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T16:20:35.718+0000)

I say that she's the easiest enchanter to play because Nami is there on the top of champs with the most flat skill curves of the game

https://i.imgur.com/xnrIlGI_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&amp;shape=thumb&amp;fidelity=medium

And I say that she's op on soloQ because look at her stats there

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nami/

I never cared about 3rd party stats, in this case i believe in my own experiences.

Sir Saltarin5 votes

That's from Riot Blaustoise...

https://twitter.com/RiotBlaustoise/status/1075515583410581504?s=17

OtterlyLost6 votes

I actually enjoyed playing Lulu and Nami; on release, Lulu was intended to be a more aggressive enchanter but due to extensive nerfs, she lost a lot of her ability to bully. I liked that version of Lulu a lot. She could be aggressive and peel if need be. Now, thanks to a variety of nerfs to both the offensive and defensive playstyle, she can't really do either...

There are well designed enchanters; Lulu, Nami, and Taric are all really good enchanters in my opinion and are(or were in the case of Lulu) fun to play and for different reasons. Lulu was all about making decisions with your abilities; you could either combo Q-E for big damage in lane but then be with only your W to peel with. Or you could hold Q-E and use them to help your ADC engage with your W. You could use your W to buff your ADC's MS/AS or you could save it in a teamfight for the assassin that jumps on them; its just a matter of making the right decision at the right time. And I enjoyed that. But then they systematically nerfed everything about her, leaving her as a,"The only right answer is to always shield/buff your ADC; never use your abilities offensively at all!" Which is frustrating because Lulu can be a very diverse...

As for Nami, she is also intended to be an aggressive laning support who falls off a little harder than others do. Her teamfight engage/disengage with her ult is amazing and her bubble is great for catching. I wish that they'd make it a lower CD to give her more options to be aggressive with. I really like Nami and how she's designed.

And Taric I don't even have to comment on; he's a pseudo enchanter who gets tanky and has both engage and peeling capabilities. I honestly wish more people would play Taric.

There are good examples of good enchanters that vary greatly from their counterparts. Just breaking the class down like you have is unfair to the entirety of it. Even if that's all they did, that isn't a bad thing. The world needs garbage men; by the same token, League of Legends needs supports who do these things. It needs champions whose job it is to do this stuff.

And trying to pin the blame for their lack of play on the champions is also unfair. Not only has the class and its champions been nerfed over and over again(Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Sona all spring to mind) but there's also just the general mindset of the playerbase. :/ Everyone wants to be the carry and that's the real problem here.

I like playing many of the enchanters. I like playing with many of the enchanters. Do I feel like some need reworks? Yes. I feel like Janna needs a rework to make her players able to express their innate skills more readily. But I also feel like there should be some give and take; not every champion needs to be ridiculously complicated(I liked Neeko for this reason) and not every champion needs to be a playmaker. There are more passive players who would like the option for a more passive champion to play.

Moody P1 votes

I don't consider Taric or Lulu well designed. For context I am a mastery 7 Taric who has played him to very good winrates in consecutive seasons. Taric is pretty much an autowin champion whenever the meta supports him; your only real answer to him doing his thing right now is to pack a ton of burst and wipe his team before they go invuln and wipe you first. And even then He can just change his playstyle and overcome that by using it in initiation or from fog. He is quite warping on his own and it's not really in any niche way because his main offering (R) is always valuable. I prefer his old one at least on paper; while it was less mechanical in practice and a bit flat, I consider him to have much more quality otherwise since he had unique strengths and value as a counter pick. The only big issue is that I think he was too niche on account of his W giving his team armor or reducing enemy armor, meaning his best case scenario was stacking against AD teams while having a heavy AD team himself. Also, his R kind of sucked but I've never agreed with the newer mindset that every ultimate needs to be a game changer, so that never bothered me.

Lulu... I mean, I think she has a perfectly fine concept but my problem stems from that while she has a to make choices, you don't really get much answer to them; the biggest counterplay outside of just completely removing her from the equation is her making the wrong choice at any given moment. But I'll be honest, I don't really know how to rectify that without giving her changes that would be too large for a rework-hater like me to be comfortable with. I think encouraging her as a more aggressive support rather than a shield slave would be a good start.

Sir Saltarin2 votes

I think encouraging her as a more aggressive support rather than a shield slave would be a good start.

No thanks, dont make enchanters mage supps

OtterlyLost3 votes

I agree that I don't want them to be mage supports. However, I don't want mage supports to even be a thing. These are champions that are carrying and doing the most damage in the game without having cs'd at all. That feels bad and looks bad and shouldn't be how things work.

However, Lulu was originally a far more aggressive support. She only became a "shield slave" after people complained about her top lane. :/ Her damage got nerfed and her Q got a lot worse which is baffling to me; the ability that's a skillshot and dodge able is the one that so the most nerfs.

As for her not having any counterplay, the same could be said about many assassins. LB just jumped across the wall from Fog of War and nailed you with her Q and a Point Blank chain; oop, now she's back on the other side out of range and vision and you're snared and her ignite is ticking. I guess I'll just die. Or oh, there's a Talon who just jumped over the wall from FoW; he insta ulted and is now sitting on my face; oop, he used his Q and empowered AA at point blank because he could stealth for free with no counter play on top of me. Guess I'll die. Or, Oh, there's a rengar nearby; better hug my tower or teammates. Nevermind, he just jumped out and one shot me with an unavoidable point and click ability.

Seriously when the class that enchanters are intended to protect against have such limited counter play themselves, it sort of shoe horns Enchanters themselves into having limited counterplay as well.

As for Taric, I do feel like he's well designed. When he is ulting his team, you generally want to disengage and just wait it out; this isn't hard really if you've actually built a half decent teamcomp that doesn't comprise of like... Fiora Top, yi Jungle, Zoe Mid, Brand and Tristana bot. :/ And honestly, if you're running a comp like that, you kind of deserve to lose.

TheUrbanKitsune2 votes

Enchanters have terrible gameplay patterns to the point that them even being viable as a solo lane is considered a red flag and gets either them or their strategy (Frostmancy as a recent example) nerfed.

That was only super big on Zilean, who has seen a good amount of success solo-laning mid without that strategy.

I'd say I mostly agree with you. I personally enjoy some enchanters but I can understand why others might not. And though some may seem similar I think there are enough differences to make playing each one feel different. Of course late game you're relegated to buff/heal bot. But that's literally almost ALL champions late game. ADC's are right click bots, tanks sit on peoples faces and soak up damage and put out CC, etc.

Also sidenote,

Every enchanter, with exception of Soraka has at least three of these:

  • Healing
  • Shielding
  • Damage buff (either AD AS or an on hit effect)
  • MS/gap closing steroid (for allies, which is why Soraka is excluded)
  • A slow
  • Hard CC

Soraka has healing, a slow, and hard CC (silence and a root on her E), not sure why you'd exclude her. Soraka is pretty gross right now.

Moody P6 votes

I'm gonna be honest I forgot soraka had a root

mb

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