How about giving enchantments to Sightstone like Smite has? At least make it worth upgrading

Beats29·5/4/2015, 4:27:24 AM·94 votes·3,915 views

I simply see no point to upgrade Sightstone at the moment, except on the late late game, since you can only have 3 wards on map. Yes it also gives health, but with the same gold you can spend it on more viable stats, or even to upgrade trinkets, be it both red or yellow. It should have more reasons to be upgraded, even if it was more expensive. Or something like 5% CDR, or extra mana regen, or armor/mr, or MS, or healing increase... I dunno... Something that isn't broken but at same time gives reason to be picked.

88 Comments

LuluInWonderland5/4/2015, 5:11:00 AM18 votes

Riot has explicitly talked about this very issue with Sightstone recently. They stated their reasoning for not making it worthwhile to upgrade until late game. I can't speak for them, but IIRC, it was that they didn't want to put supports in a position of having to build it any earlier. They already "have to" (not really but usually) get their gold income + utility item + a Sightstone. That's ~3000g they need to spend before any differentiating builds, and they're already almost always the most gold-deprived champs on the map. Making it worthwhile to spend another 800g would delay the diversity even later.

Arenvalde5/4/2015, 7:28:12 AM6 votes

Right now, Support items work like this: Gold item + Random item = Gold item with weird active.

If they made support items work like this: Gold item + any tier 2 sight item = Gold item that places wards. Then they would not only reduce how much a support "has" to buy before building anything unique, but they would let the support make unique choices even before they built a non-core item.

But wait, "ANY" sightstone? There's only 1!

No, there would be 4, each costing 800 gold: item 1028+item 1006 item 1027+item 1004 item 1052+item 1004 item 1051+item 1036

In addition to providing an enchant on tier 2 support items, the vision items could also convert into jungle enchants (if the jungler prefers sight to smite) or even possibly an enchant on item 3035, item 3135, or item 3075 for carries and tanks.

BeatzBoyFTW5/4/2015, 12:02:11 PM6 votes

A buff for item 2049 means a buff for LeeSin . But if you're persistent on it, make the Sightstone's passive as:

UNIQUE PASSIVE: LEE NO MORE!

All champions except Lee Sin may purchase this item.

junglerboy165/4/2015, 2:30:43 PM3 votes

the thing is, they have to make sure that the finished upgrades themselves are weak enough that not everybody feels the need to buy it, otherwise there is no trade off between vision/damage/tankiness/etc.

Everyone should be able to use sightstone, but it isn't supposed to be good enough that everyone wants it, otherwise everyone gets it every game and the game becomes very boring.

If they did enchantments for sightstone, they would have to stay relatively slot inefficient without using a bunch of the wards, just like it is now, so something like a +30 AP option, +250 HP option, +200 mana option, etc.

Drunk Rummate5/4/2015, 6:16:58 PM3 votes

Riot has stated that they don't want to 'force' supports down an expensive and long build path so that they can branch out and use other items aside from gold generation + vision items in the mid game. I tend to agree, I'd rather not worry about sinking another 1000 gold before I can start building Mikaels/Twin Shadows/Aegis/etc. Completely ruins build diversity and item choices if you do that.

ZzEslIolZQ5/4/2015, 7:01:41 PM2 votes

They still haven't been able to balance the smite upgrades and you want them to do more?

Reworks Are OP5/4/2015, 7:26:53 PM2 votes

I got an idea why not remve the actives off the support income items and make their active be 4 wards?

Narabug5/4/2015, 11:06:57 PM2 votes

Supports in general suffer from poor itemization choices, IMO, and Sightstone is no exception. Support has the lowest average gold income, coupled with the lowest return on investment for stats that they're expected to trade off for active effects. Mikael's is 75% gold efficient, Sightstone is 50% gold efficient, FQC is 80% gold efficient, Talisman is 80% gold efficient, and FaceOfTheMountain is 90% gold efficient. For many of these items, their active can (and in some cases absolutely will) make up for their inefficiency, but the lack of stats on the item results in a sub-tier champion. As a quick benchmark, a Spellthief support with an ADC hitting 80% of their CS will return to base at 7.5 minutes with a total of ~1,200 gold earned where the ADC has earned ~1670, assuming ideal Spellthief usage. So you've got 2/3 the income, and you're using that to buy items that are half as gold efficient in terms of stats. This is why many supports seem so strong in lane at the start, and quickly fall off after the first back.

I think supports deserve an overhaul similar to the way Jungle has been overhauled with varying build paths, enchants, and interaction with summoner spells. With this goal in mind, the most support-oriented item to implement this on would be Sightstone. In the same way that Hunter's Machete can only be purchased when you have Smite, make Sightstone limited to champions with Exhaust, and remove the armor/mr shred component. Next, allow us to purchase upgrades to Sightstone itself, similar to the jungle upgrades, that will interact with Exhaust and, similar to the jungle upgrades, costs 250 gold and provides the "extra ward" component. Some examples off the top of my head (that may be overpowered or underpowered, and would need balancing):

  • Increased Income/Wave Clear - Exhaust may now be cast on enemy minions, executing them and rewarding 150% gold to yourself and the yourself and the nearest allied champion
  • Increased Mobility - When exhaust is cast, it increases nearby ally move speed by x%, diminishing over x seconds.
  • Damage Amp - Exhaust also causes allied champions to deal 20% increased damage to the target.
  • Increased Utility - Casting exhaust immediately resets the cooldown on all abilities with a cooldown lower than 15 seconds.

Finally, we can add in some support-style enchants which can be shared between supports and junglers(again, balance is a process for mathematicians here). The goal is to find a meaningful build path for a variety of supports while offering some viable alternatives for the same champions based on flow of the game:

  • Inspiration - CDR and %AP. Passive: Provides an aura that grants allies 10+(stacks) AD and AP. Stacks gained from kill/assist and objectives (turrets, dragons, barons).
  • Meditation - %HP and %Mana. Passive: Gains %HP/%Mana over time.
  • Gladiator - %MR and %Armor. Passive: Provides an aura that grants allies penetration equal to 5% of the bearer's resistances.

In the end, the goal here is that, while restricting the choice of summoners supports take, we're opening up a wide variety of build options that are currently unavailable. Additionally, we have the option to add more meaningful utility to the support role that we would be unable to do in any other role. For instance, a Taric with the Damage Amp + Gladiator would be devastating against many of the "dive-the-ADC" tanks.

Some caveats to the idea:

  • These are all merely suggestions, and all of them would have to be tested and considered on every champion (even non-standard ones) before implementation, as I'm sure there are some clever people who could find some highly game breaking scenarios. Consider the core idea of variety rather than the exact examples given.
  • This could be tied to any summoner, not just Exhaust, or potentially even a new support summoner. The idea is that it has to be a summoner that is very sub-optimal for anyone but a support to take.
  • I feel that it's necessary to point out that any solo lane that buys a Sightstone early for the sake of the latter enchant would be gimping themselves so badly that they would likely forfeit the game before making the additional gold required to upgrade the item. They'd also be giving up their secondary summoner.
  • This would be an indirect nerf to Lee Sin/Nunu, but Raptor buff + Greater Stealth Totem should be enough for their needs.