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Since Sona got nerfed again, I ask Riot 1 more time, can you please at least say the reasons for it?

Beats29··57 votes·6,893 views

1st of all, I'm not a Sona main. I simply like her theme and playstyle (and I was extremely displeased about her rework but that's a different thing) and all I can see is her being nerfed from patch to patch. Last PBE patch, another nerf on her passive. Can you explain why?

No other champion is squishier than her, she doesnt have hard CC besides her ult, no instant gap closer which makes a good prey for assassins, other supports excel on what she does... just why you keep nerfing her?

You want good engage? Go Thresh or Leona. You want good disengage? Go Janna or Karma. You want tankyness? Go Alistar. You want sustain? Go Soraka.

There's always a champion who excels on something, while she doesn't. This was my fear about her rework. The rework did nothing. Playstyle was never her problem. You simply keep guting her numbers over and over. Fearless simply completly ignored us when reworking her and guess what, she's returning to her old state pre-rework. People will ignore her because other champions are simply better.

Yes I don't agree with the nerfs, but can you at least explain them to at least try to accept them? Because I simply don't see a reason. Her cons are much higher than her pros.

You simply want to enforce meta and not want to have a support dealing damage, and that will always create champion inbalance.

I lost reasons to pick Sona over other supports long time ago, and with this I will surely not going to pick her ever again. And also to mention, it also explains that the rework was a failure. But ye, it's better to decide alone (Fearless cough cough) rather than listening to the feedback.

36 Comments

Kowe The Ewok31 votes

"I thought she was Irelia." - Morello

Pika31023 votes

she's returning to her old state pre-rework.

No, she was stronger and actually balanced before the "rework." In actuality, Sona is returning to that orphan toddler that nobody wanted to adopt.

#BetterNerfSona

Demonsolder216 votes

Me: ;( Sona -cries- why Riot why

Riot: But muh LCS plays

Origami Kaiju14 votes

I'm still wondering why Sona even got a rework before champs like Taric or Poppy....

SmokingPuffin6 votes

{quoted}

I'm still wondering why Sona even got a rework before champs like Taric or Poppy....

It's a way easier rework to make.

Taric is going to lose his targeted stun for sure and his kit is a bundle of free stats. Significant challenge to a rework here.

Poppy is going to get a new passive and, most likely, 3 entirely new buttons. Only football tackle is going to stay. This is a Sion-class project.

ZeroQuest961 votes

I dislike what you are saying about Taric (albeit it will probably happen to the poor battle cleric).

Ulquiorra99513 votes

Honestly, by now, only argument I can think of that makes sense is that Riot hates her. No other explanation is logical from game balance or any other perspective.

AGangPlankMain8 votes

Riot's logic: Let's ignore them, and they'll forget soon enough!

Borbland6 votes

As a big Sona, I liked her rework (I feel like i'm the only one), her heal has become alot better even if she lost a big part of her early poke. Her E as become alot more useful early, since it was completly useless before teamfights.

After the rework, she was fine, i don't know why she's getting nerfed again, i donÄt want one of my favorite supports being nerfed to the ground :(

Gunpoint4 votes

You want an unavoidable multi target Q that half hits enemies with no AP items? Go Sona. Thats why they nerfed her. They should buff her heal though.

Emmy Cha0s16 votes

Let's see:

Hymn of Valor - Magic Damage: 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200

Really now? You start the game with less than 80 base HP? You have less than 400 HP by level 9? Sorry, but I'm having great difficult believing the horse manure coming out of your mouth. Let me put it in context for you: ** Sona has the lowest base damage amongst the entire support class at 40 base damage on her 1 singular damage spell. This is ONLY tied with Taric's 2 damage spells and Leona's Q, but Leona's W and E both do more.**

SensualMuffins1 votes

Her ults base damages. Her Q scales better than Tarics abilities do or leona's for that matter, She's ranged, it's a fire-and-forget spell, that builds a stack to a strong auto, and can do damage to two targets at the same time, while buffing her and her team's damage. It gets stronger every time she puts a point into R, and you most definitely have more than 80 base HP. 482 to be exact. Which is more than she ever had in Season 3.

It Is I Emoto5 votes

{quoted}

You want an unavoidable multi target Q that half hits enemies with no AP items? Go Sona. Thats why they nerfed her. They should buff her heal though.

it does 40 magic damage on rank one don't forget you start the game with 30 mr, and some extra mr from runes/masteries and 25 mr already reduces incoming magic damage by 20%

meaning, it does about 30 magic damage on hit, 5 auto attacks as adc with dorans blade and the hp are back lmao

SensualMuffins1 votes

It's 40 (+.5AP) + 20 (+.2AP) damage. Because why wouldn't Sona auto after? If her ADC also attacks the same target that's an additional 20 (+.2AP) damage. Assuming you have 3 AP Quints, and that's it. you get 15 AP, that's 40 (+7.5), which the game recognizes as 48, + 20 (+3) = 71 magic damage, +50 raw AD for 121 raw damage at level 1. So they're taking 57 magic damage, and probably about 42 attack damage, for 99 damage total.

It Is I Emoto1 votes

well, thats still not a problem. where it becomes a problem is, when her powerchrds come in, and with extra on hit damage become more noticeable too. in a previous post, i explained to riot jag, how benifiting lich bane sona is, mostly if she can throw every 7 seconds unavoidable magic damage.

darobk5 votes

its not the q that does that

Sammystorm4 votes

riot has stated why they nerfed her. they believe she is too strong. She has consistently has had a 10% win rate and around 53% win rate. Those numbers say two things that she is good right now and that more then just her dedicated mains are playing her. Now whether you think she is too strong is a different matter but she was most definitely strong.

Moulin Rouge10 votes

{quoted}

riot has stated why they nerfed her. they believe she is too strong. She has consistently has had a 10% win rate and around 53% win rate. Those numbers say two things that she is good right now and that more then just her dedicated mains are playing her. Now whether you think she is too strong is a different matter but she was most definitely strong.

People were picking up often because she was easy to pick up. That doesn't mean she was OP.

She's essentially the easy version of Nami. However, let it be known that Nami is twice as powerful as Sona ever was.

Hinagiku334 votes

I'm starting to get convinced that Riot is just trying to drive her popularity down so they can remove her current ult without people pitching a fit. It won't work, because this game is built around a veteran player-base and Sona is extremely popular (and we will ***** about any major changes regardless).

#LeaveSonaAlone

Too Ton2 votes

In season 3 (yes some time ago) Sona was super op. I used her a lot then. She was just TOO good in everything. Need ms on everyone? E. Need a heal that was faster than soraka? W. Need a lane bully with good teamfighting? R and Q. This was before annie, leona and thresh came into the picture though

Sammystorm1 votes

she was really good in season 2 and season 3

It Is I Emoto5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Too Ton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KdwNbBNf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-06T16:57:19.199+0000)

In season 3 (yes some time ago) Sona was super op. I used her a lot then. She was just TOO good in everything. Need ms on everyone? E. Need a heal that was faster than soraka? W. Need a lane bully with good teamfighting? R and Q. This was before annie, leona and thresh came into the picture though

I wasn't there in season three, but she was supposed to be the utility support, giving everyone a bit of everything, in exchange having no offensive spells. I liked the stance mechanic, because if you were sitting on the right aura, you would win the teamfight. Sonas playstyle before was primary passive (thats what i always thought) The powerchord were used in situations where enemies engage. But not, Sonas only playstyle is aggressive, abusing the Q on hit damage, wich isn't anymore that strong, and just run. The additional armor and magic resist gave her alot of sustain too, and she needed it extremly. Now she feels extremly weak and worthless, except if she ultimates into the enemy team.

MattAkhavan2 votes

they nerfed her because she reaps too many rewards for little to no cost.

Sachabot2 votes

They actually did post about it in the last topic like this I saw. Her data was starting to show things that would lead to her being unhealthy, so they're trying to tune it down without huge nerfs, or another rework, or whatever. It's a lesser of two evils thing, at least for now. I assume she'll start getting small buffs once the problem is sorted (if it's sortable). If her issue is too much, well, back to the drawing board.

Emmy Cha0s4 votes

Her data was starting to show things that would lead to her being unhealthy, so they're trying to tune it down without huge nerfs, or another rework, or whatever. It's a lesser of two evils thing, at least for now.

Lol, how amusing that you actually believe this pile of propagandized horse manure.

I assume she'll start getting small buffs once the problem is sorted (if it's sortable). If her issue is too much, well, back to the drawing board.

Lol, such misplaced optimism. Sona hasn't had a single buff in the entire history of her existence. Especially on July 30th, Riot proved beyond reasonable doubt that they're prejudiced against her and will never let her be playable ever again.

Sachabot1 votes

He asked for the reason as to why Sona was being nerfed. That's the reason they gave. I'll thank you not to presume my thoughts when all I'm doing is paraphrasing what was said. I said nothing regarding my beliefs, although I will at the bottom.

Sona hasn't had a single buff in the entire history of her existence.

Really? Every change since 2010, and she's never had a single number increased ever? I'll call bullshit. Has she ever been given nothing but buffs in a patch? No.

I'm also not optimistic. I simply try to cover as many potential bases as possible.

Now, I shall give my opinion so the same mistake is not made later:

Sona is stupidly tricky to balance because of her kit. Auras go far beyond numbers, which is why a lot of the aura items were trashed or turned into their neutered modern versions. Sona, as a champion who gives auras, naturally can't have high numbers, at least according to Riot. I don't think the rework was in the correct direction, but she did need one, and still does. Because auras are such a pain from a balance standpoint, it might be more effective to find a different way to express her identity (hence, going back to the drawing board).

Now, let me ask you a few questions. What possible reason does Riot have to lie about their reasoning, given that the nerf was never going to be met with positivity? Why would Riot be prejudiced against something they made and spent a lot of time and money on? What would you do to fix Sona? I don't want to just hear "fire the rework team" or whatever. I do want to know, because you're very obviously passionate about your champion, and I think feedback should be gotten from players who spend the most time on a champion.

Xonra3 votes

{quoted}

He asked for the reason as to why Sona was being nerfed. That's the reason they gave. I'll thank you not to presume my thoughts when all I'm doing is paraphrasing what was said. I said nothing regarding my beliefs, although I will at the bottom.

Really? Every change since 2010, and she's never had a single number increased ever? I'll call bullshit. Has she ever been given nothing but buffs in a patch? No.

I'm also not optimistic. I simply try to cover as many potential bases as possible.

Now, I shall give my opinion so the same mistake is not made later:

Sona is stupidly tricky to balance because of her kit. Auras go far beyond numbers, which is why a lot of the aura items were trashed or turned into their neutered modern versions. Sona, as a champion who gives auras, naturally can't have high numbers, at least according to Riot. I don't think the rework was in the correct direction, but she did need one, and still does. Because auras are such a pain from a balance standpoint, it might be more effective to find a different way to express her identity (hence, going back to the drawing board).

Now, let me ask you a few questions. What possible reason does Riot have to lie about their reasoning, given that the nerf was never going to be met with positivity? Why would Riot be prejudiced against something they made and spent a lot of time and money on? What would you do to fix Sona? I don't want to just hear "fire the rework team" or whatever. I do want to know, because you're very obviously passionate about your champion, and I think feedback should be gotten from players who spend the most time on a champion.

If they wanted to make her easier to balance they should have properly changed her kit not just...kept it the same but worse with "potentially" bigger numbers, which you won't get unless you are building selfishly and going straight ap as a support, which is most likely screwing your team out of warding.

She really isn't that tricky to balance anyways to be honest, Riot just chooses to look at her in the same light as other champions when she is obviously not the same as Janna, not the same as Soraka, etc etc etc. She was unique, then they made her feel more generic, then keep nerfing her. MAybe they should have made her Q poke unique....or...I dunno....change the damn power chord stuff in her old kit. She was good before and didn't need a rework in the first place. They just nerfed her across the board and 99 out of 100 people who actually played her before agree. Only people I EVER see saying they think this rework is better are people who usually start their responses with "Now I'm no Sona main..." or "I didn't play her much before but..." before saying they think she is better.

The long and short of it is, and I guess I should just get over it but...she WAS my main so I know better, she wasn't just changed or reworked, she was nerfed. Everything about her was made worse except a few scaling changes that only help if you aren't playing her support, and her ult didn't change. They made her a little different but in a worse way and they took a unique champion and made them lose their identity because...reasons. They sure didn't balance her because she doesn't even feel good to play anymore, and then they go and nerf her.

I mean...it isn't as if droves of people didn't tell Riot this the day they announced they were looking at her...hell most of the early comments were "why?" and "please don't touch her, please" etc etc. Only to be met by no response and then telling us what was being changed to more "please don't do that" or "that is bad" with a select few, like 3 people for the first 50 or so pages who thought it was good (it was the same few people posting a few times, everyone else was very against it). Riot ignored the feedback, I gave stats of how many games I had played over two accounts, many others with even more games, Riot doesn't care lol They have the mindset of they know best even when they don't, hence why the new lore is garbage and the new reworks outside of Sion in the past years or two have been met with negativity and annoyance.

Emmy Cha0s2 votes

Really? Every change since 2010, and she's never had a single number increased ever? I'll call bullshit. Has she ever been given nothing but buffs in a patch? No.

Yes. Not an exaggeration, check her patch history. There's the +4 global armor to ALL champions and then "bug" fixes and nerfs.

Auras go far beyond numbers,

Nothing is beyond numbers, they are the one true absolute in the universe. Everything can be represented using numbes. Auras for example are VERY easy to calculate with basic arithmetic. You have the aura X, then the user and allies in range nth. You cannot **logically **balance around optimization. As an ability that affects more than one person, you can't balance around a single player either. Thus as is the case at least via Locket, you balance around 2 players, the minimal amount whilst still being multiple.

Why would Riot be prejudiced against something they made and spent a lot of time and money on?

Prejudice is inherently a lack of logic. Riot doesn't need reason to hate Sona, hatred itself can be standalone. I'd rather not speculate as to whatever the "why" was for Fearless to nerf her, such would just bring us into a dark and pessimistic place. Only he knows the reason, all we could do are uneducated guesses.

What would you do to fix Sona?

I wouldn't have removed her auras or stance play, those were 2 very important traits to her identity. If they wanted to add the 1-off effects, they could have lowered the numbers on her auras and just added them. Reduce the blue aura by a point per rank, lower the green aura by a flat 3 and cut both their new actives in half. Leave Celerity alone, it was fine and real Sona players understood the value of maxing it 2nd while snowballing, it used to have value in its rank-ups whereas now it no longer does. The bolts were fine, the heal was fine, these didn't need changing and her CDs and mana costs didn't need increasing. Blatantly nerfing Staccato was just an inherently bad decision by all accounts. As a trade-off, they could've have had it apply some type of debuff to increase damage to her target, I've seen a few suggestions: an explosive mark, a damage increasing debuff similar to expose weakness or DFG or just a simple armor/MR shred. Lastly, there's no reason Crescendo shouldn't be 100 mana at all ranks, the fact that it still isn't to this day is inherent self-proof of Riot's prejudiced bias against Sona.

Xonra3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emmy Cha0s,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KdwNbBNf,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2015-01-10T00:23:03.541+0000)

Lol, how amusing that you actually believe this pile of propagandized horse manure.

Lol, such misplaced optimism. Sona hasn't had a single buff in the entire history of her existence. Especially on July 30th, Riot proved beyond reasonable doubt that they're prejudiced against her and will never let her be playable ever again.

The one you were replying to is obviously new here.

Just like they were gonna fix Olaf once things leveled out and he got nothing but nerfed and forgotten about after his rework.

What about Skarner who got reworked, then nerfed because he was played one effing week in the lcs and never heard from again

I am about the most opposite of optimistic myself about their reworks and their ability to make the champions actually balanced that I could be. (granted I'm a bit biased because Sona was about the only champ I played in Season 3 and Skarner was the only jungler and Olaf the only top I played in season 3 so....sucks to be me).

Riot, as you said has a prejudice whether they will admit it or not. I mean come on...of ALL the supports alone they could have nerfed...Like Morg for example, or Thresh....they nerf Sona. Their prejudices and biases are so blatant it is funny they even bother to dispute it, hell look at Lee Sin, how long is this guy gonna be...well Lee Sin with nothing but slaps on the wrist because he is flashy?

They don't like Sona so they will ensure she is unplayable because she won't be getting a second rework so, soon no one will play her and she will be in the dungeon with Taric in the category of sadly unplayed Supports while thresh continues to rule the roost and make "dem flashy plays"

HeavenlyDiscord1 votes

They are just Nerfing Sona's Power Cord damage from the Q to 40%. That Power Cord damage is insanely strong at lvl 1 with a free 800 range Q poke.

Miku Hime sama4 votes

19.5 magic damage is "insanely strong?" Not sure where that logic is coming from, but not even a bronze 5 would believe it.

As for Hymn of Valor, the range is 700. NOT 800, the guide you're reading is incorrect. The "free" part aside since it costs mana... it has the lowest base damage amongst supports at 40. Not sure that's even high enough to consider "poke."

AnOstrichWithPMS1 votes

Sona is the only champ in the game i can play with a mousepad on a laptop

DevilishMetal1 votes

Sona has the ability to buff many teammates at once but I am displeased as well with the nerfs as well.

Miku Hime sama4 votes

She had 65% more ability to buff many teammates before she was nerfed July 30. That's just counting the range nerfs. The aura removal and longer CDs multiple that number more.

SensualMuffins1 votes

Does anyone remember how gutted she got before her rework? Or am I the only one? She would literally die to every lane at early levels if they just so much as sneezed in her general direction. And she had 325 MS. Then her Rework came, and she got buffed again. Now she's getting toned down. Because her early game is too strong, and her late game is also ridiculous.

I'm not kidding, try building some damage on her. Watch what happens when you get a Sheen in lane. Watch what happens when you upgrade your sheen. Watch what happens early with just Spellthief's Edge. It's nuts.

FantasySniper1 votes

People are building her AP, and Sheen especially is driving a lot of force behind her damage output.

You can't dodge any of her stuff, which makes it even worse.

At least Zyra is more or less guaranteed to die when you get close to her, and with smart positioning you make her bullying worthless. Annie has a somewhat short range. Neither of them have sustain or speed boosts like Sona.

So now they're giving her the same treatment as all other high-damage and high-range champs by reducing her MS and chopping off what they can of her unnecessarily high power. Same thing happened to Kog'Maw.

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