43 Comments
ZJD1234 votesIs this the part where ADC mains start whining and crying and whining and crying and whining and crying until their role is overpowered again for a year?
D357R0Y3R3 votesNo, it's that part where humans would use logic to try to resonate on how gamebreaking a character with 700 ad and 4k hp would be when in the same patch adcs are dealing ~~15% less damage
IcyPepper1 votesI think that information should be in your OP.
Critmaster Garen2 votesNo, it's that part where humans would use logic to try to resonate on how gamebreaking a character with 700 ad and 4k hp would be when in the same patch adcs are dealing ~~15% less damage
an adc will have less raw ad, but those ad will be amplified by critical strike and attack speed.
that darius will use thoe 600 to 700 ad to auto attack you for 600 to 700 damage with his base attack speed.
that adc will use 250 ad to auto attack you for 500 damage crits 3 times as often and convert 20% of that damage to true damage.
marksmen and fighters are different types of carries by the way. they just work with different tools. their damage should be on about equal terms. darius is as much designed to be a teamfight carry as, say twitch.
the difference is only in how they approach fights and in their win condition.
marksmen win condition is to keep kiting and dealing damage from a distance. they have an advantage in the regard that they start already in that position by default. because of this, their damage usually turns out to be very reliable through their high threat range. even if they have to keep switching target, there is rarely a situation where an adc cant auto attack someone or have some impact on a fight.
fighters, and especially juggernauts are the entire opposite in that regard. they only have any effect at all, if they can close the gap to the enemy team and stay in a favourable position to attack people. by default, they arent starting in your face, but have to think how they can get on top of their opponents. in return theyre a lot more tanky so they can buy time to get into that position, and then keep going from there.
Zalinthel4 votesDarius' AD isn't even that much higher; especially considering Atma's adds a third stacking mechanism for him to ramp up. Plus, Darius is SUPPOSED to become a murder machine if he gets ramped.
The Sterak's change is a significant dent for anyone that likes Tri-Force, which on a lot of them only becomes compensated with a stacked Rageblade in addition to new Atma's.
Fighters are supposed to be significant damage threats and are supposed to be able to take some punishment while they're at it. Not seeing a problem.
Athenes Lulu3 votesboards got what they wanted, whats wrong with that :^^^^^^))))))
D357R0Y3R2 votesyou're sure? It does seem like they're never pleased :/
Athenes Lulu2 votesof course not this is boards
wait i forgot adcs werent complete gutted and removed from the gaem so boards will never be happy :^(
Paroe3 votesI dont see a problem with this because; A) All of them are fighters of some kind B) An ADC will still kill them unless the ADC screws up and gets caught C) Melee champions SHOULD do more damage than marksmen.
Marksmen, by virtue of range, are designed and meant explicitly to siege and take objectives. It wasnt until the dark days of the great whining where everyone but marksmen were enjoying the game and both reddit and the forums cried out with few other voices against them that marksmen were weak and didnt do as much damage as mages that they even GAVE crit.
Which, if you didnt know, was so incredibly broken that it gave rise to dodge. Dodge proved to be the more toxic stat in its implementationl so crit remained as the lesser, infallible evil.
saltran4 votesA champ like that Darius screenshot that has 4k hp and more mr and armor than any adc, he should not have almost 700 ad and shoud not do more dmg than a glass canon class like adc that builds 1 or 0 defensive items.
And for ap's will be probably worse since (generally) they already struggle against tanky ppl that can survive their combo I wonder how will it be when those can now reach obscene AD numbers aswell.
D357R0Y3R4 voteshis ult dealt 1600 damage and his passive 200 damage per second
Paroe2 votesA champ like that Darius screenshot that has 4k hp and more mr and armor than any adc, he should not have almost 700 ad and shoud not do more dmg than a glass canon class like adc that builds 1 or 0 defensive items.
And for ap's will be probably worse since (generally) they already struggle against tanky ppl that can survive their combo I wonder how will it be when those can now reach obscene AD numbers aswell.
All of the champions showed were building bruiser and were fully stacked in completely optimal situations.
A marksman would still shred them in a proper situation - because, effectively, such high AD is actually a "crit".
300AD x2.5 = 700 If you have to devote your entire build to it, such high numbers are fine. Especially since ALL OF THEM require stacking to reach their full strength, and stacking requires not being CC'd.
Changes will make bruisers amazing duelists in the late game, which means their niche as splitters will be reinforced. Which is a good thing.
Automated Riven1 votesThe old crit calculation.
Aptest1 votesno.
ADCs are pvp champions designed to kill everybody, at the cost of being killable by everybody. supported, they by design defeat any and all opponents.
Critmaster Garen2 votesADCs are pvp champions
every champion in this game is a pvp champion by default. what is this even supposed to mean?
and marksmen arent the only type of champion that needs support.
juggernauts usually need to be supported by tanks, catchers and enchanters to get into melee range of their opponents and be able to carry, just as marksmen need support to stay at a distance and kite.
i think youre projecting your own idea of what you want marksmen to be (which isnt neccessary healthy or balanced) on the reality of what they are.
theyre not supposed to be the only viable carries in this game, and theyre not supposed to be without counterplay when a support is sitting next to them.
Aptest1 votesmaybe so.
however this comment is specifically a retort to the "Marksmen, by virtue of range, are designed and meant explicitly to siege and take objectives." line. Maybe I understand it wrong but my understanding of this idea is: "marksmen are supposed to kill baron, but die to Zed". This this specific point I disagree: marksmen, under specific but reasonably accessible circumstances, are should kill zed.
What is the healthy and balanced place for marksmen in the game, in your opinion ?
Critmaster Garen2 votesmaybe so.
however this comment is specifically a retort to the "Marksmen, by virtue of range, are designed and meant explicitly to siege and take objectives." line. Maybe I understand it wrong but my understanding of this idea is: "marksmen are supposed to kill baron, but die to Zed". This this specific point I disagree: marksmen, under specific but reasonably accessible circumstances, are should kill zed.
What is the healthy and balanced place for marksmen in the game, in your opinion ?
no, theyre supposed to be carries. but they are also very impactful when it comes to objective control.
its a part of them that should be considered in their power budget.
you have certain melee champions like 
who can have a large strategic impact and a lot of objective pressure/control. in return hes an average carry in teamfights at best.
marksmen all have great siege potential and impact on objectives by default. so it wouldnt be fair for an adc to be better at split pushing, teamfighting, and pressuring/sieging objectives than yorick.
sadly, currently that is the case though for champions like 
for example. who can have a massive impact on teamfights, pick potential due to his kit, and objective control just by the virtue of being ranged.
Aptest1 voteswhat do you mean exactly by no? I do not understand. What is the healthy and balanced place for marksmen in the game?
Critmaster Garen2 voteswhat do you mean exactly by no? I do not understand. What is the healthy and balanced place for marksmen in the game?
i mean simply put, as carries. but they shouldnt generally be stronger carries than fighters and skirmishers just because.
i think other types of carries should generally be able to have the same game impact as marksmen.
Aptest2 votesI agree with you there.
I am however beginning to form an opinion, that the bot lane champions should be each individually a little under-powered compared to the 2 solos and the jungler.
NemeBro2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ss4V8b5r,comment-id=0003000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-18T19:30:32.907+0000)
i mean simply put, as carries. but they shouldnt generally be stronger carries than fighters and skirmishers just because.
i think other types of carries should generally be able to have the same game impact as marksmen.
Juggernauts are almost universally not carries. Riot lied to you. They lied to all of us.
ModWulf Helhammer3 votesPersonally, I think Spear of Shojin is even worse.
Taking the most popular Vi jungle build (warrior, TF, GA, Deadman's, tabi) and replacing the Sterak's with the new SoS item, she's taking 38.5% reduced damage from the get go, not accounting for her armor. When she procs it, she's now taking 200% reduced damage, with an additional 110 bonus armor, 875 bonus HP, and then her shield passive for 10% of her max health.
This isn't accounting for anything she's getting from runes, or any base stuff.
So ult the ADC, instantly kill them and proc SoS passive, then proceed to wipe the rest of the team as the mage or assassin mid helplessly flounders against you.
EDIT: removed inaccuracies
D357R0Y3R2 votesonly thing is that shojin gives flat amount of reduction not % damage reduction
ModWulf Helhammer1 votesHm. Hadn't noticed that. Edited accordingly.
Still, 200% reduced damage is too much for a class and build that will instantly burst the only champions that could hope to actually puncture through it.
D357R0Y3R2 votesit isn't 200% reduced damage, the base flat amount of reduction is amplified by 200%
But i get what you say, and I also want to make melee carries viable in this game really but i don't want them to become tanks
Baron Barian2 votesNo love for Nasus.
Doge20201 votes[{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ss4V8b5r,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-17T21:32:18.663+0000)
No love for Nasus.
Same bro, all of the AS and crit champs are getting rito’s love rn
D357R0Y3R1 votes[deleted]
Doge20201 votesbuff nasus?
Meh kinda hard to do. With how much knowledge the low elo doesn’t have, a big buff depending on challenger/master players will most likely make nasus easily the worst Champ to play against in lower elo. From my knowledge there are a bunch of people in the low elo don’t really know how to play against him correctly. there would be a few lucky games for the enemy where I would be ahead of my laner but all of the other laners on my team fed.
Tahminatrix 1 votesThat is literally love for nasus….more AS champions more wither..
Doge20201 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ss4V8b5r,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-18T04:41:42.585+0000)
That is literally love for nasus….more AS champions more wither..
I meant love as in buffs to him or items that he normally builds. I didn’t really mean situations where he would be more useful but yeah that too.
Fear the Kayn2 votesRanged champions attack from ranged, melee champions have to actually close that gap. I have no issue with this.
IcyPepper1 votesAt least they're still melee I guess???
TempName548461 votesi dunno wtf you think is gonna happen to adc where they do less than 300~ damage per auto at full build but it aint happenin buddy
D357R0Y3R2 votesi see so aatrox having 2.3 attack speed, 500 ad and dealing 400 damage with his W passive that triggers every 2 AA with guinsoo will deal less damage than an adc with crit that got nerfed since IE now converts FIFTEEN percent of your damage into true damage
TempName548461 votesaatrox in your own example had 900 dps, you don't even need to build crit on an adc to exceed that not to mention going rageblade with the builds you have in the images is fucking retarded.
Doge20201 votesaatrox in your own example had 900 dps, you don't even need to build crit on an adc to exceed that not to mention going rageblade with the builds you have in the images is fucking retarded.
Rageblade does help with Jax and aatrox, they both have at least a little bit of AP ratios and it lowers the w of aatrox and passive of Jax’s ult to just 1 auto attack in between each proc.
D357R0Y3R1 votesi legit autoattacked twice and took fleet footwork instead of conqueror because i do not play bruisers
it's retarded? meanwhile you get a shit ton of tankiness damage, slow from frozen mallet but okay i guess
TempName548461 votes"i got 5 atmas and 6 rage stacks by autoing twice" oki fam
D357R0Y3R1 votesyea that's what i meant, i attacked twice after stacking them and took the screenshot i did not bother to see what would happen if i kept autoattack for the full ult duration
TempName548461 votesthe dps of 2 autos at full stacks is the same as 20 autos so it doesn't actually change shit tho.
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