I don't understand why you won't just buff her properly, instead of buffing parts of her that aren't important (5% to spider lings damage scaling.) This isn't doing her any favors late game because they won't get any action then . If you want this to be more effective bring the spider ling's Multi-target damage reduction back to 10/20/30/40% instead of a measly 25% flat.
Bondage Bunnyboy2 votesI believe the early CC buff is really good for her. I'm almost certain that her Cocoon never stunned for so long at early ranks. This means she can rank W second without losing out on CC that she really needs to stick to her enemies.
It's a fair start, and if she's still bad then they might keep going. But I think this is good enough to help her make a comeback; maybe not as a top tier champion, but as a legitimately strong niche pick.
Vistha Kai2 votesDamn.
Riot gives you an old burger, tells you it's fresh and you buy it?
Her last change to the Cocoon was basically a revert of a part of the nerf that squashed her into Urgot-tier pick- and winrate wise.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srs4cTfG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-20T22:10:04.634+0000)
Damn.
Riot gives you an old burger, tells you it's fresh and you buy it?
Her last change to the Cocoon was basically a revert of a part of the nerf that squashed her into Urgot-tier or pick- and winrate.
It's a bit more than a revert.
Her Cocoon was once 1.5 at all seconds. It's 1.6/1.7/1.8/1.9/2 now. Hitbox aside, Cocoon is better than it's ever been.
CatSith1 votesdoesn't change the fact that hes right. People aren't aware of its old 1.5 second stun.
Abyssphere1 votesdoesn't change the fact that hes right. People aren't aware of its old 1.5 second stun.
I'm afraid I don't really get the point though. I assumed his reply was to the person saying that Cocoon was buffed "and had never stunned for that long at early ranks before", but the initial post was correct - this would even have been a buff for old Elise so it is something to be excited about.
More relevant to the OP I've disagreed with you on this before but I like the spiderling change a lot more than others do, I guess. I really think we should wait and see for the patch though because between the really major bugfix she has coming and these three buffs, it is a big patch for her. We don't want Riot to load like 10 different buffs into one patch or she'll just have to get nerfed down again.
This reminds me of the Cass buffs she got in 4.21. Everyone expected she would still be a bit on the weak side but she ended up actually being very strong. If Elise is still weak after this patch I'm sure she'll get more attention soon.
CatSith1 votesA bug fix isn't a buff its a fix. Her spider lings doesn't need more damage, their problem is not amounting to anything late game. This isn't a big patch for Elise, Her heal change was suppose to help her but it made her weaker, this will help her early game but isnt helping her after lane phase.
Abyssphere1 votesA bug fix isn't a buff its a fix. Her spider lings doesn't need more damage, their problem is not amounting to anything late game. This isn't a big patch for Elise, Her heal change was suppose to help her but it made her weaker, this will help her early game but isnt helping her after lane phase.
I didn't call the bugfix a buff, though I do think it will perform in the same way a buff would (it will improve her performance). The Rappel bug happens literally every single time you use the ability right now and even if her spiderlings are unreliable anyway, it's still a giant drop in your damage potential every time you use the spell. Given the fact that the recent changes were supposed to make you use Rappel to do MORE damage, that's a hugely significant bug. It made the spell offensively unusable and it's a big deal that it's been remedied.
But she does have three buffs:
Obviously two/three of them are in the same part of her kit but that's still a very nice list. Whether they're necessarily buffs she should have got is definitely questionable but even if her spiderlings didn't need to do more damage, I'm not going to complain about them doing more. Give them a bit more tankiness and boom, they're perfect.
There's a huge difference between this patch and the last one that you are missing. The last time Elise got changes it was a bunch of pointless trade-offs - the new heal was worse than the old one in every way unless you'd used Rappel for bonus healing and as said above, using Rappel with the intention of dueling was not a good idea considering it cut off your spiderling DPS entirely. But while her changes last time were a couple of buffs and a couple of nerfs, there is nothing here that has anything close to a trade-off. Her Cocoon is flat out better and her Spiderlings are flat out better.
I know we just have inherently different beliefs here but even if none of these buffs are massively impactful and even if they address the wrong parts of her kit, the fact that she's getting all of these buffs (and such a crucial bugfix) is a big deal. It's not often a champion gets this many improvements in one patch.
CatSith1 votesLike i said already, its meaningless to increase the spider lings late game damage if they don't buff their defenses. So this patch isn't a big change for Elise, It may look nice when you are reading it but it isn't fixing the problem nor is it beneficial at all. Elise has a strong early game and was nerfed so much because of it.
You aren't seeing the big picture because you are distracted by these small insignificant changes to her spider lings. Her damage is fine its in a good place without being overpowered. Her problem is that she cant last long enough to do enough damage late game, or she is just a stun bot soaking up damage. Her Problem is her Sustain, which the heal change was suppose to help but was nerfed right before its official release.
Her spider ling AP ratio increase is a pointless change.
Her spider lings damage type is a pointless change.
I don't understand why you cant see that. These changes to her spider lings isn't a big deal. A champion gets improvements every patch and i don't see the improvements you are naming for Elise besides her stun.
Abyssphere1 votesLike i said already, its meaningless to increase the spider lings late game damage if they don't buff their defenses. So this patch isn't a big change for Elise, It may look nice when you are reading it but it isn't fixing the problem nor is it beneficial at all. Elise has a strong early game and was nerfed so much because of it.
You aren't seeing the big picture because you are distracted by these small insignificant changes to her spider lings. Her damage is fine its in a good place without being overpowered. Her problem is that she cant last long enough to do enough damage late game, or she is just a stun bot soaking up damage. Her Problem is her Sustain, which the heal change was suppose to help but was nerfed right before its official release.
Her spider ling AP ratio increase is a pointless change.
Her spider lings damage type is a pointless change.
I don't understand why you cant see that. These changes to her spider lings isn't a big deal. A champion gets improvements every patch and i don't see the improvements you are naming for Elise besides her stun.
I do see the big picture, I just think it's important to look at the smaller pictures too. While this change doesn't address her team fight struggles at all and her inability to itemise for damage while retaining the necessary survivability is a huge issue, she does have other problems on live that these changes DO actually address.
I don't have a huge amount of time to type so sorry if it's a bit skimpy on details but like I said, Elise is a horrendous team fighter right now BUT she's also a terrible duelist and these changes make her dueling pretty much infinitely better than it is on live because she can actually scale her damage while having an adequate crowd control duration to use that damage. On live the choice between leveling W and E second leaves you screwed either way because you either lack the damage or the CC to win a duel but this should no longer be the case. The fact that an Elise who comes across someone by herself can actually consider trying to kill them again is a huge deal for her. Most bad team fighters can at least claim to be good duelists and Elise's 1v1 assassinations are going to be a ton better this patch, particularly because her Spiderlings are significantly more reliable when there aren't a multitude of enemy champions around.
If you put her in a 5v5 situation then the buffs will look minuscule, absolutely. And I'm sure there are still a million other problems with her kit too, but I think it's pretty damn impactful for Riot to give her so much power in duels in the early-mid game (Cocoon buff), scaling into the late game (Spiderling buff). She can 1v1 again, that's not something to complain about. It's not what we were all asking for but it's very real progress.
CatSith1 votesShe can duel just fine. Her only big problem is sustain/tankyness that isn't hard to buff/scale.
SaltyKracka1 votesIn case you hadn't noticed, they're planning to majorly buff her stun.
Also, fuck spiderlings. Those things should be dying to a sneeze.
Vistha Kai5 votesThey already are.
CatSith2 votesThe stun is a revert mix with the new scaling, nothing major.
SaltyKracka2 votes...And? It's still a buff.
CatSith2 votesIs the thread about her stun? I'm talking about her spider ling damage scaling. I'm happy for her stun, but that isn't enough.
Erockandroll1 votesRiot is being overly cautious, with her balancing, thinking she's never far off from viability. And with good reason, She's was actually being picked up in the LCS. (however hard that might be to believe.)