@RIOT Runic Echos needs a buff, This season is too hard on AP Junglers.

CatSith·Dec 25, 2016·62 votes·2,257 views

Either add 10% cd or give it a 70 base AP.

38 Comments

MagimodellerDec 25, 201620 votes

Isn't the problem doing the clears before you get it?

MunchCrunchLunchDec 25, 20161 votes

pretty much. the item is still really weak compared to other jg items still. ap champs needs some kit changes. to work in the jungle well. outside of the tanks the squishy ap junglers can't really do much. when raptors turned into t-rexes they eat yor head off

CatSithDec 25, 20164 votes

Its one of the problems, but Runic echos doesn't scale as well as the other jungle items.

The Yetii RiderDec 26, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Its one of the problems, but Runic echos doesn't scale as well as the other jungle items.

The item that has 10% AP scaling on its passive doesn't scale as well as 60 flat AD and 10% CDR?

CatSithDec 26, 20161 votes

Standard AD items have around 60 flat AD lol. 10% ap scaling isnt much if they dont have the ap to utilize it. There has been a lot of nerfs to AP items as of late, and having a weak ap item like runic echoes taking a spot in ap junglers item slot isnt helping.

Oakleaf RangerDec 26, 20161 votes

The items still feels too assasinish. Meaning I think it feels too geared toward ap assassin jungles then Ap junglers in general

SqueyDec 27, 20161 votes

most ap junglers skip the item entirely. Its a waste of gold

ToastersaotDec 26, 20169 votes

Another idea could be lowering the base magic resist of Jungle camps at early levels, buffing all magic damage clears, and letting it slowly scale up. This way the power spike that champions like Nidalee and Elise have when getting this item doesn't affect their ganking power/damage potential against champions, but it buffs their clears so they can hit the Runic Echoes powerspike earlier.

CatSithDec 26, 20161 votes

They already did that already but after the removal of 15% ap from blue ap junglers got even worse lol.

aspects1Dec 26, 20161 votes

that would break diana because she still clears fine in new jungle

ToastersaotDec 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

that would break diana because she still clears fine in new jungle

I would agree that her Clearing is fine, but she's not a Clearing God like Nidalee who when good deletes camps, or Graves , who doesn't take damage with his knock back against monsters. However, this change would only buff Jungle Diana, as would a Runic Echoes buff, while keeping Diana Mid where she is, since I think Diana Mid is pretty strong right now, although not OP.

aspects1Dec 26, 20161 votes

the new jungle made diana jungle stronger, and a runic echos buff would make her even stronger if they were to buff runic echos, they would have to nerf someother aspect of her to makee sure her jungling doesnt become op maybe move power from her w or passive to q, so her laning would still be unaffected, but her jungle woud be nerfed

SqueyDec 27, 20161 votes

except most ap junglers skip runic entirely. You get a way bigger item spike going for a real item and its not much more gold

Lady HammerlockDec 25, 20167 votes

The only issue i can see with this is the side effect it will have on Elise and Nidalee, who can absoutely dominate the jungle even when only a little bit strong

CatSithDec 25, 20164 votes

Well considering all AP Junglers are in the bottom of the jungler food chain. I doubt this will make them too strong lol.

BoompenguinsDec 26, 20166 votes

Amumu

CatSithDec 26, 20163 votes

Lol Hes a tank and hes one of the few ap junglers that has an consistant aoe damage.

NeidoxDec 26, 20162 votes

Full ap amumu can decimate a team.

xeviDec 26, 20168 votes

in bronze maybe

AcidTheWarlockDec 26, 20162 votes

You don't play Amumu outside of bronze tho

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 26, 20161 votes

what's this bs ?

the worst jungle item is warrior (despite be decent).

5000000000000000Dec 26, 20166 votes

That's because AD junglers are already good at clearing jungle.

Masala ChaiDec 26, 20161 votes

Assuming AP Junglers can't clear? AP junglers were notorious for their ability to clear. Diana and Nidalee have one of the fastest full clears in the game, and Elise is certainly no slouch either.

5000000000000000Dec 26, 20161 votes

I guess I misinterpreted that comment. I thought it was about why Warrior enchant doesn't have any other passive effects (like Cinderhulk AoE, Runic Echoes AoE, or Bloodrazor %HP damage) to help clear the jungle.

Sun Wu RyuumokuDec 26, 20161 votes

was my point... Warrior feel lame... But when we have our first item jungle complete almost all jungler have a good clear IMO (AP inclued). But i didn't argue for a buff of warrior (i don't want another lee buff^^).

Zero Skill TankDec 26, 20161 votes

I was wondering when this is going to get noticed in the sea of assassin tears.

There are entire group of champions doing way worse than them.

SparktacularDec 27, 20161 votes

Poor AP Jungle Assassin Evelynn item 3070 , worst of both worlds :D

GrReaper96Dec 26, 20161 votes

Meh just sell it later on and get item 3285

VolkriDec 26, 20161 votes

The problem is early, not later.

MLDzXnRRRDec 26, 20161 votes

Many AD junglers skip warrior and go ghostblade. There is no point in building warrior.

Irelia BotDec 26, 20161 votes

In all honestly they could likely add an smite upgrade you can buy for free once level 3 and removing all the jungler items.

Since all of the jungle items have comparable alternatives it would not be that crazy.

TeCoolMageDec 26, 20161 votes

Honestly they should just turn jungler smite item into an Eleisa's miracle-like item where you get smite upgrade (only gives you smite on champions, lifesteal on monsters, on hit damage against monsters, and healing upon damaging monsters with an ability) and it doesn't take an item slot.

of course that would mean reworking the sightstone upgrade which gives you wards, but still.

After that buff talisman

There, slot efficiency fixed with late game by removing item upgrades completely,

fix early game clearing by reworking jungle

WhitakkerDec 26, 20161 votes

Since I only play Diana jungle (and an occasional Fiddle when I'm in an idgaf mood), she's definitely not struggling to clear camps, in my experience. Granted, Runic Echoes feels weak compared to Luden's (natch), but I think it doesn't start becoming worth its weight once you get more AP under your belt.

PraetorAmalthusDec 26, 20161 votes

Galio jgl would get a buff outta this, lul gimme dat

agbudarDec 27, 20161 votes

same for everyone that wants to build item 1416 with the exception of Shyvana and for everyone that wants to build item 1401 basically none that build this item are viable.

Denims Wrath666Dec 27, 20161 votes

it would be nice if they added like a dead mans plate passive to the jungle items. like i know, that means more jungle ganks possibly but would help speed up the clear times.

VoraciousXDec 27, 20161 votes

I think the jungle items should stay, but I also think that smite shouldn't be tied to them. Perhaps the smite upgrades themselves could just be moved over, allowing you to still build the jungle items even without smite, and if the smite actives have any worth(which they should but I don't know the gold efficiency of this stuff), move the gold over to the smite buffs specifically making the jungle items cheaper.

Only problem with this is that it'd probably create another jungle problem, or maybe not, since you'll still be paying the same price, just at different times possibly.

Either way it's weird having 16 jungle items with 12 of them doing pretty much the same thing as the original only with one difference(being smite).

As for Runic Echoes, I know for a fact it feels completely terrible on AP Shaco, and would love a item 3100 proc instead of item 3285 , but they made it ludens for a reason, or at least I think they did, the proc doesn't feel super helpful in the jungle imo though.