@Riot PETITION to allow ground base "projectiles" to bypass windwall.

CatSith··290 votes·7,861 views

{quoted}

When it comes to how things interact we believe it's best to go for a clear, consistent set of rules where possible, so that you can predict ahead of time how two abilities will behave together. In the case of Windwall, Braum E and any other missile stopping effects we might someday do, that meant we needed to develop a set of rules on what they would and wouldn't stop, with the goal of keeping those rules as clear cut as possible. What we ended up with is basically:

  • Missile blocking effects will stop all projectiles unless those projectiles go so high they vanish off the top of the screen.
  • Projectiles are defined as abilities or attacks that move between locations with a travel time
  • Units are not projectiles. For things that are around the border between a unit and a projectile (Orianna's Ball, Maokai's Saplings etc) a judgement call's needed, with whether or not the thing has some agency of its own being one of the key tests used to assess whether to treat the thing as a projectile or not.

That does mean that some things that thematically don't feel like they should be stopped by a wall of wind (Nami ult, Braum ult etc) do still get blocked. That can feel a bit weird thematically, we believe that's a worthwhile cost for the gameplay clarity it offers though. Nautilus' ult is at present an exception to the above, being unaffected by Windwall/Braum E, and that's something we'll change so that it functions like other projectiles.

Nautilus' ult is at present an exception to the above, being unaffected by Windwall/Braum E, and that's something we'll change so that it functions like other projectiles.

Meddler stated they were gonna change Naut's ult to be like other projectiles. So it won't go through windwall/braum's E shield like it does atm. THIS IS THE WRONG WAY TO GO.

Ground base skills that represent it self being generated from the ground SHOULDN'T be blocked by a Windwall and Braum's E. Why? because of clarity of game play. If this change does go through, Skills shouldn't have ground base animations anymore and should be changed.

185 Comments

IronwallJackson46 votes

That... lacks clarity. You didn't ask a yes or no question in your poll. Rather, you made a declarative statement to which both a "yes" and "no" could be interchangeable depending on what each person means.

Edit it into a yes or no question?

And also jot me down as "They're still projectiles regardless of animation, so they should be blocked by Windwall and Unbreakable." It's perfectly clear so long as you know what the game defines as a projectile. Hell, I know Poppy's ult would be stopped by Windwall/Unbreakable before I even got the chance to test it myself.

CatSith7 votes

Do you agree with the statement? Yes, if you don't No

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a3914 votes

{quoted}

Do you agree with the statement? Yes, if you don't No

That's not how polar questions work.

You should've put "Do you agree with my post?".

CatSith6 votes

People understand the statement and know how to vote. Who cares if its represented incorrectly?

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a3910 votes

{quoted}

People understand the statement and know how to vote. Who cares if its represented incorrectly?

I was confused before reading your reply, actually.

21028037DEL117 votes

The thing is, I agree with your post, but the question is worded poorly. For example, if you change the answers to "Agree" and "Disagree" because it's a declarative statement, then it's fine.

I wasn't sure which to vote at first, because I thought "No, it shouldn't block ground-based projectiles," but then realized what you meant after reading replies. Just thought that might clarify things for other people. =)

UrPalAl12 votes

No, and here's why, from our prospective, it seems to only make sense thematically. However, for developers, it creates a lot of gray areas where they have to decide in what area an ability fits, right now it's simple, if it is coded to work like a projectile, than code-wise, it is one. Also, game balance shouldn't be based thematically, Anivia shouldn't be unaffected by ground based attacks just because she's flying, and Lucian shouldn't be able to dash through walls, but that's the way it works.

It makes things simpler and more clearer, at least for people who know how to classify abilities.

Projectiles: Anything that moves that is not a unit. AOE Spell (think Malzahar): Anything that does NOT have to move to get where it is.

^These simple characteristics make coding and playing the game much simpler, sure ground based attacks being blacked by a windwall doesn't look all that great, but characteristic wise, it makes perfect sense.

CatSith10 votes

They have already made exceptions for other abilities that are considered Projectiles.

Azir's Conquering Sands and Emperor's Divide Fizz's Chum the Waters Jinx's Flame Chompers! Olaf's Undertow Orianna's Command: Attack Zed'sLiving Shadow Zilean'sTime Bomb

Are they coded to work like projectiles? Yes, but are they excluded from windwall and braum's E? Yes. Adding in more exceptions to an ability for clarity and gameplay sake isn't a big deal. People are complaining about the windwall already. Giving it an actual weakness (ground base projectiles ) is better than gutting the ability entirely.

UrPalAl13 votes

Actually none of those are coded to work like projectiles. All of them use UNITS as ranged abilities, that's completely different. Orianna's ball is unit, Azir's soldiers are all units, Fizz's shark is a unit, Olaf's Undertow is a unit that he can pick up, same thing with Zilean, Zed's shadow is a unit, and Jinx's flame chompers are units that apply CC when you walk on them (think J4 flag, or a Teemo shroom after it's been placed.)

UrPalAl8 votes

Like I said, from our perspective, it just doesn't make sense, but from a design standpoint, it makes perfect sense and allows for no gray areas. If Poppy's ult was changed, there would be a gray area, which isn't a good thing to have in a game. The only exception is Naut's ult, which is getting fixed soon I believe.

Pierce The Veal37 votes

{quoted}

Do you agree with the statement? Yes, if you don't No

Yes, they should be blocked. No, they should be blocked. Yes, they shouldn't be blocked. No, they shouldn't be blocked.

Welcome to English, enjoy your stay here.

AMYS GRAVE5 votes

2 and 4 are identical. i think you typoed...

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

2 and 4 are identical. i think you typoed...

Woops, nice catch.

GigglesO20 votes

Don't worry thresh's auto attack isn't a projectile, but poppy's ulti is. One is allowed to play thematically, but the other is not. #RiotLogic

Quort8 votes

{quoted}

Don't worry thresh's auto attack isn't a projectile, but poppy's ulti is. One is allowed to play thematically, but the other is not. #RiotLogic

But Thresh's auto Attack isn't a projectile at all... He reaches out and slaps them with his chain scythe. 0_0

Audiomancy6 votes

Despite the fact that the chain clearly goes through the wall and thus, should be considered a projectile.

Champion Skin3 votes

Okay so what does Thresh Auto attack projectile look like?

RasCaelestis1 votes

Vel'Koz's auto-attacks are also not considered projectiles too.

His W (Void Rift) and E (Techtonic Disruption), despite both being ground-based abilities, are considered projectiles though.

I fought a Yasuo a while ago that did not know about the weird AAs, while I did. He wasn't particularly good, and Vel's one of my best champions, so I was able to beat him in lane. At one point I got him very low, but just before it killed him, he was able to block my W with his Wall. I stayed where I was and just AA'd him once, killing him. He started raging HARD in chat about how "^^^^ u, u ^^^^ing hacker. only way u beat me is through hacks. makes sense now. reporting ur ^^^^^ ^^^." I explained that Vel's AA isn't a projectile, but he didn't believe me. I pointed out that if I was hacking, why wouldn't I also allow my other abilities to pass through his wall? "ur stupid idk." He did calm down a bit after that though. I will not lie here, it did feel kind of good to make a Yasuo feel frustration, the same thing his entire kit makes his opponents feel.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

I will not lie here, it did feel kind of good to make a Yasuo feel frustration, the same thing his entire kit makes his opponents feel.

Zilean I know that feeling. Wind wall yourself? I'll just bomb my own minions. Bomb already on you? Dashes won't help. Going to ult and tower dive me? My ult CD is only triple yours. Going to chase, gank, or run away? Hope you have dashes; other wise: nope. Going to push wave and roam? I push harder than you once I get tear/RoA. Oh, and about those ganks. For some strange reason I really don't understand, junglers like free level-ups. So they tend to visit often. (This happens when I play Raka bot too. Apparently junglers like health!)

NegusInParis13 votes

Next patch: "Flash is now a projectile and will be blocked by Yasuo's windwall, have fun"

Valor Bot12 votes

Follow-up patch: "You are now a projectile. Walking through Yasuo's Wind Wall will cause you to disintegrate, putting you on the respawn timer. Additionally, enemy Champions can knock you back into this wall to force you out of a fight."

NegusInParis8 votes

Follow-follow-up patch: "Yasuo is now the one and only CEO of Riot games"

RasCaelestis3 votes

Funny story... Shaco's blink (don't play Shaco, forget which ability that is) temporarily turned Shaco into something coded as a projectile. In early tests for Yasuo's Wind Wall, if Shaco were to attempt to blink through the wall, he would disappear for the rest of the game. This was fixed before release, but a Rioter talked about it in one of the Q&As for Yasuo.

J Epstein8 votes

So in other words, it doesn't matter that certain parts of the game are overwhelmingly frustrating to play against and anti-fun, as long its easy to code.

Zenthon Prime2 votes

They're just lazy or actually delusional, this isn't even about the code. I'd honestly understand if it was because I know coding and how hard it can be, but they can already make projectiles exempt from Windwall (See: Azir, Orianna, Zilean, Zed).

GigglesO5 votes

{quoted}

They're just lazy or actually delusional, this isn't even about the code. I'd honestly understand if it was because I know coding and how hard it can be, but they can already make projectiles exempt from Windwall (See: Azir, Orianna, Zilean, Zed).

You forget they also make thematic exceptions to ranged abilities, such as thresh's auto attack.

Wimbledofy6 votes

It's because thresh's auto does not come out as a projectile and it never has. His autoattack is the same thing as any melee auto attack.

Cosnirak10 votes

Almost. It's a ranged attack. But not a projectile. It's just a really long arm effectively. The fact that it's a ranged attack is why it doesn't work with item 3302 's execute.

Beldair7 votes

As a Braum main, Naut has enough to take on Yas or Braum without our shields not blocking his ult. Zyra's is more of a good example of ground based attacks not blocked by them.

CatSith5 votes

Naut's ult is in the same category as zyra's snare. Her ult isnt blocked by the shield because it isnt a projectile. My post is about allowing ground based projectiles like zyra's snare, braum's ult, naut's ult, poppy's new ult, and Etc. To be able to go through wind wall and braums E. In naut's case he should be kept as an exception.

Poske2 votes

{quoted}

Naut's ult is in the same category as zyra's snare. Her ult isnt blocked by the shield because it isnt a projectile. My post is about allowing ground based projectiles like zyra's snare, braum's ult, naut's ult, poppy's new ult, and Etc. To be able to go through wind wall and braums E. In naut's case he should be kept as an exception.

Zyra snare goes over ground where do you draw a line .. mate

Same thing is with reksai skillshot it tenicly goes over ground

CatSith3 votes

They both still come from the ground lol. They need visual indicators to show the skill shot, so hence the above ground animations.

Champion Skin1 votes

I do believe you can block the damage from Zyra ult with Yasuo windwall if placed correctly (I know it used to work with Ziggs ult at least)

Aeolian Melodies2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O2epTk6b,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-12-06T16:54:50.988+0000)

I do believe you can block the damage from Zyra ult with Yasuo windwall if placed correctly (I know it used to work with Ziggs ult at least)

Ziggs' ult is a projetile, Zyra's is not.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Ziggs ult is blockable, but Xerath ult isn't.... consistency.

GigglesO7 votes

How about better yet, braums shield blocks ground projectiles, but yasuo doesn't, make them have a distinction.

CatSith8 votes

Wouldn't mind that since his shield is healthier compared to Wind wall, because it still affects braum.

HighH16 votes

and Braum is supposed to be a tanky support who's entire theme is an unbreakable shield

BLU Medic7 votes

If it goes under the ground, then it shouldn't be stopped by something above the ground.

Mecha MaIphite17 votes

Azir YOU SHALL NOT PASS RekSai clicking noises Azir Well, fuck.

The Yetii Rider7 votes

This is a cute idea, but if Meddler is going so far as to directly NERF Nautilus's ability rather than buff Poppy's with regards to Wind Wall, I think it's a losing battle. Have an upvote and an affirmative anyway, but...

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Riot's policy has always been nerfs > buffs. ... Unless you're Lee Sin.

Actually xPeke5 votes

Change poll to "Yes, they shouldn't be blocked" and "No, they should be blocked"

lolipopevelynn5 votes

if braums ult gets blocked by windwall then that will be the single most retarded change riot has ever done in the history of this game to a point where its rage inducing. its fucking bad enough his BASIC ABILITY blocks so many ultimates in the first place.

you can bull shit about sivirs shield and braums shield, but its no wear near the level of stupidity of yasuos wall.

Random Task15 votes

Braums ult, already gets blocked by Yasuo's wall. Since Braums release.

yay nibbers2 votes

Braum's shield functions identically to Yasuo's though, the major difference being Braum's moves with him.

BoundaryBreaker3 votes

Braums has limited 'health' to it though, Yasuo's just blocks anything and everything

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Braum's also only blocks what's in front of it. Nothing from the side or behind.

The Soulforged5 votes

Considering how slow naut ult is, this is just a slap in the face to any naut who faces against a yas.

IcyPepper4 votes

Nautilus' ult is at present an exception to the above, being unaffected by Windwall/Braum E, and that's something we'll change so that it functions like other projectiles.

Because Yasuo needs more power with less counters, amiright?

Don't even hate Yasuo, but that potential Nautilus nerf makes me salty.

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