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Honestly, this season's rank is probably more accurate than any previous season's rank

HateDaddy··20 votes·1,068 views

Wew lads, rage incoming. "Wow HateDaddy how could you!!! I get matched against 5 man premades every game as a solo player, we never have premades on our team!!! Dynamic queue sucks, I should be at least platinum!!! Arghhhh!!"

Relax little billy, I'm not really referencing dynamic queue here though I do think dynamic queue has very little influence on the majority of the player base barring outliers. No, the reason I think this season is more accurate is that the new champ select allows people to play in their two best roles as opposed to being potentially forced to play a role they simply aren't good at. I don't know about you, but I suck at ADC. In previous seasons, I think I've won 1-2 ADC games. That's 5 seasons of playing ranked.

One of the things many people benefited from is playing against someone in a role they aren't comfortable with. I could tell in previous seasons when I'd be against someone who has no idea what they were doing in top and I'd look them up and they'd be a bot lane or jungle main. There's significantly less of that this season, you're playing against someone who knows their shit every game whereas in the past, you'd be playing against that maybe 75% of the time. And that's probably why many people think the game is harder now, because it is: you're actually playing against people who main the same role as you.

I honestly am having a harder time in plat/diamond this season in top lane because I know I'm playing against people who know their shit, so it has made climbing a bit more difficult. And I think this is a big reason people are thinking the games are harder. And to me, for the first time ever in league, you're actually playing against people of your same role in almost 100% of the games you play, at the very least people who have some experience in the role. And to me, that's a much better indication of your skill than what we had in previous seasons.

33 Comments

100T iLL13 votes

{quoted}

new champ select

watch everyone blindly upvote you and say how dynamic queue is good when you specifically state new champ select is what made rank better.

+1

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

watch everyone blindly upvote you and say how dynamic queue is good when you specifically state new champ select is what made rank better.

+1

I don't think dynamic queue match making has much influence on people's rank, maybe aside from the very top of diamond 1/masters/challenger but even then, these players are so damn good they could fall asleep as a plat 1, fart on their keyboards and wake up diamond 1. So it hardly matters in my mind.

The new champ select, however...that's a bit of a different story. And I'm glad riot made it.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Oh yes [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

CaptnJakSparrow3 votes

If such were the case.

Trimades wouldn't have a 70% win rate in plat+

Yaskamasandwich2 votes

That's how I've been stomping as support for the past few seasons. Still win as support but no longer stomping. Now it is a fun challenge of mind games.

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

DQ is the annoying prototype of the correct pill to legitimatize ranked gameplay. You cannot have a single player ranked system in a team game unless you are going to make actual solo achievements. Those who say otherwise are delusional.

Soloqueue may have been more fun for some of you but if you think it was more fair then you are just full of it.

OH MAN NOT GOOD2 votes

[deleted]

KING ATTILA2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Y WOULD U DO DAT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srkfmBw4,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-07-08T01:27:34.697+0000)

new champion select != dynamic queue

NCS =/= Dynamic Queue.

flibitydoo2 votes

The issue I have with this, is not the dynamic queue, but the idea that player skill is more accurate when the player get's their role (reflecting how good the player is when they are playing at their best).

We could take your idea further:

what if there were no champion bans for ranked? because if your best champion get's banned, wouldn't it mean that you aren't playing your best and demonstrating your true skill?

I think that part of a players skill is adaptability. And the ability to play other roles and adapt to the decision of their teammates to also be an indicator of player skill.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

The issue I have with this, is not the dynamic queue, but the idea that player skill is more accurate when the player get's their role (reflecting how good the player is when they are playing at their best).

We could take your idea further:

what if there were no champion bans for ranked? because if your best champion get's banned, wouldn't it mean that you aren't playing your best and demonstrating your true skill?

I think that part of a players skill is adaptability. And the ability to play other roles and adapt to the decision of their teammates to also be an indicator of player skill.

I could easily take the same argument of adaptability and apply it to champion banning as to why removing champion bans isn't the right idea. Nobody is great at every single role. Faker would still get smashed by the best ADCs in the world, which is relative to his mid lane skill.

PiVoRx2 votes

What a bullshit, i play only jungle cause its all i enjoy, and i used to have support as backup role, but with new selection i have to gamble with jungle/mid cause if you pick support you can forget about other role.

Jeddite1 votes

Toasting in a HateDaddy bread.

( I am in complete agreement that the ability to pre-select desired role is a great help. I gave up ranked because I only want to Support; putting Jeddite in any other role -- particularly jungle -- is gonna result in the team having a bad time. )

Perhaps when Season 7 rolls around and Rito James™ un-fux ranked, I'll try again.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Toasting in a HateDaddy bread.

I'm just tilted I've had to lane vs pantheon and yasuo non stop

NotSpecialDude1 votes

Same. Went jax top and ended up against a yasuo. He dumpstered me at the 10 min mark and I had to spend the rest of the game split pushing to catch up.

At least I won.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

yes and no.

in previous seasons you wouldnt just play against people who are in their off role more often, but youd often be forced to take an off role yourself. i havent played support or jungle even once this season. in previous seasons i was forced to play all over every role.

playing bot lane as a support with a random at your side against a duo was just as shitty, as playing your main role against someone in an off role was easier. in the end i think it kinda evens out.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srkfmBw4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-07T23:50:47.423+0000)

yes and no.

in previous seasons you wouldnt just play against people who are in their off role more often, but youd often be forced to take an off role yourself. i havent played support or jungle even once this season. in previous seasons i was forced to play all over every role.

in the end i think it kinda evens out.

That's my point tho, everyone is in their main roles while not being forced into their bad roles, making the level of competition a bit higher and more difficult, thus a more meaningful indication of skill.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

That's my point tho, everyone is in their main roles while not being forced into their bad roles, making the level of competition a bit higher and more difficult, thus a more meaningful indication of skill.

i defnitely agree that the new champ select helped. it was also the factor that actually reduced toxicity this season imo, since it stopped people fighting over roles and tilting already in champ select.

now if wed only get that together with solo que.

Jeddite1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srkfmBw4,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-07-07T23:55:50.799+0000)

i defnitely agree that the new champ select helped. it was also the factor that actually reduced toxicity this season imo, since it stopped people fighting over roles and tilting already in champ select.

now if wed only get that together with solo que.

Total agreement there, too. Watching two nerdvirgins verbally wrist-slap each other for top, mid, or ADC just made me want to ALT+F4 and queue-up for ARAM.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Total agreement there, too. Watching two nerdvirgins verbally wrist-slap each other for top, mid, or ADC just made me want to ALT+F4 and queue-up for ARAM.

Nerdvirgins lol

"Haha dude my chewy action figure is mint condition 1969 never before opened even Jorge Lucas touched it haha ur such a loser gimme top."

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srkfmBw4,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-07-07T23:55:50.799+0000)

i defnitely agree that the new champ select helped. it was also the factor that actually reduced toxicity this season imo, since it stopped people fighting over roles and tilting already in champ select.

now if wed only get that together with solo que.

ye new champ select is gr8, wish we had this from the start

jaymc11301 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srkfmBw4,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-07-07T23:55:50.799+0000)

i defnitely agree that the new champ select helped. it was also the factor that actually reduced toxicity this season imo, since it stopped people fighting over roles and tilting already in champ select.

now if wed only get that together with solo que.

I always found that in previous seasons if any one wanted to be that toxic in lobby it wasn't worth playing with them at all (attitude obviously not team oriented and clearly a liability) and the inclusion of role selection has made it much more difficult to identify trolls in lobby and thus, far more often, I find myself playing with them in game, discovering it in game, when in the past I would have just dodged and avoided the MMR hit. The overall effect has been more damaging to my MMR management than anything else and I have to say I prefer the old system where I can just go "x thing only, plz op.gg me, you will like what you see" and having my whole team go "DAAAAYYYUUUMMMM FUCKIN LET THIS GUY DO X, FREE WINS OP!!! CARRY US SENPAI!!!", which, of course, was also a morale boost for my whole team before we even hit the Rift, the siginificance of which cannot be underestimated.

khorney1 votes

no its not. so i climbed to gold 5 from bronze 5 then afetr liek 4 losses lost out of gold which is bs btw...... but it obviosu beyond belief that peopel are boosted

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

no its not. so i climbed to gold 5 from bronze 5 then afetr liek 4 losses lost out of gold which is bs btw...... but it obviosu beyond belief that peopel are boosted

You should probably slow down when you type

khorney1 votes

well how pissed would u be if u climbed from bronze 5 to gold 5 then lose out and now silver 4

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

well how pissed would u be if u climbed from bronze 5 to gold 5 then lose out and now silver 4

honestly, I don't think you have the right to be pissed if you fell back down to silver 4 from gold 5. You were one of the luckiest people on the planet to get that far tbh.

warpenguin5551 votes

100% agree. new champ select is great for ranked

BluePolarizer1 votes

In plat 1 last season I'd be destroying diamonds who were 1st time Lee Sin being forced to jungle, but now I am being clamped at plat 2/3 because I'm not good enough to beat diamond junglers on their mains. The game has indeed gotten alot harder.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

I agree that you are correct in saying new champ select makes it more accurate but, at the same time, Dynamic Q really counteracts that. Because people are now able to que up as 3+ parties it makes differentiating between someone whose good at the game and someone whose bad at the game really hard. Someone in Plat 1 may be really good and consistent at the game while someone else may be complete garbage that just got carried by his friends.

Someone collected a lot of info from a ton of games and it appears that you get matched up against premades as a solo player far more often than Riot claims you do especially at higher elos. This makes the playing field less fair as 5 solo players are going to have a harder time beating a duo and trio q. With Dynamic Q they've really shifted the system from individual skill to team skill which means rank doesn't necessarily reflect your actual skill.

Even when you have a complete fair game with a duo and trio q vs a duo and trio q, 5 man vs 5 man, etc. a game with premades is much different from a game with 10 solo players so they are essentially being evaluated in 2 completely different ways which means that a Plat 1 solo player will have a much different skill level than a Plat 1 Dynamic Q player.

New champ select definitely makes laning phase more fair but I think Dynamic Q sorta just tosses that out the window in terms of rank.

jaymc11301 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=srkfmBw4,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2016-07-08T09:01:15.069+0000)

I agree that you are correct in saying new champ select makes it more accurate but, at the same time, Dynamic Q really counteracts that. Because people are now able to que up as 3+ parties it makes differentiating between someone whose good at the game and someone whose bad at the game really hard. Someone in Plat 1 may be really good and consistent at the game while someone else may be complete garbage that just got carried by his friends.

Someone collected a lot of info from a ton of games and it appears that you get matched up against premades as a solo player far more often than Riot claims you do especially at higher elos. This makes the playing field less fair as 5 solo players are going to have a harder time beating a duo and trio q. With Dynamic Q they've really shifted the system from individual skill to team skill which means rank doesn't necessarily reflect your actual skill.

Even when you have a complete fair game with a duo and trio q vs a duo and trio q, 5 man vs 5 man, etc. a game with premades is much different from a game with 10 solo players so they are essentially being evaluated in 2 completely different ways which means that a Plat 1 solo player will have a much different skill level than a Plat 1 Dynamic Q player.

New champ select definitely makes laning phase more fair but I think Dynamic Q sorta just tosses that out the window in terms of rank.

Pretty much my exact line of thinking as well. The two aspects can cancel each other out.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

Which is funny because when I play my own role (top) I usually get so fed that I stopped playing top cause it's boring.

I used to think I was good at mid. I was wrong...

I was already shit at everything else, that I will admit.

Malix Farwin1 votes

Sure, lets forget the fact that depending on your main role(mid top adc) you may not even get it. Lets not forget those who used to secondary support but are unable to due to secondary support = support every game. Those guys of course had to either shift to support main or learn a new secondary.

jaymc11301 votes

It really depends on how much you play with a premade and how much you play as a solo. If you play most of your games as a solo player then I might be inclined to agree with you in that you are more often matched against a lane opponent who has a comparable skill set. However, due to the massive increase in MMR range for teammates that is allowed because of DQ, playing as a premade artificially inflates and deflates your ranking a significant degree. The stuff Neacy is doing with the Delusional guy is a prime example of how this works, that player has been significantly boosted so far because he is being carried game in and game out by a far superior player, which is exactly what happens with DQ.

What does this mean? Well, since more often as a solo you are matched with solos and against solos, there is a greater indication of skill given your ranking if you play the vast majority of your games as a solo player.

If you play as part of a premade you are matched with more and against more premades, which is a far more volatile circumstance, and leads to some members of the premade being artificially boosted and some members being artificially held back.

The problem lies in premade members who achieve a ranking higher than their skill set would indicate because they are consistently carried when those same players then try to play as a solo. They will lose a significantly higher percentage of games because they are not talented enough to play in the skill range they have achieved because of Dynamic Boost.

The totality of all this means that it is possible the rankings for solo exclusive players might be more accurate this season, but the same benefit they received in terms of accuracy becomes a liability when they play against a player who plays primarily in a premade, resulting in a similar situation to what you refer to when you say you played, in previous seasons, against players quite often who were not "x" role mains. Even as a main of "x" role, if you have to play against a player who is significantly better than you because you primarily play as a premade you wind up causing the same sort of issue we had in previous seasons. So sure, solo players may have slightly more accurate rankings this season, but only to a degree because the same thing that helped alleviate some portion of the problem with the ranked system is the thing that also artificially inflates the MMR of undeserving players who play mostly as a premade and strike out horribly when they venture off alone.

If the net effect is a slight positive improvement in terms of ranking for some small percentage of solo players, but the net effect for all players is far lower quality games game in and game out across all skill ranges and significantly lower quality games for solo players because of the times they are paired against a premade then the overall net effect might be misleading because what it could mean is since the majority of players now play as premades the majority of players are now ranked ineffectively.

Since you tend to mostly play as a solo I'm not at all surprised by your reasoning or your position and find the argument you make compelling in some sense. But I feel it also paints only a portion of the whole picture and fails to investigate deeply enough into the issue to make a broad sweeping statement in regards to players on the whole and would be better said if limited specifically to solo players because the percentage of games they play with or against premades is lower than players who play mostly as a group.

All in all, another insightful and interesting post by HD that should give any one who reads it a reason to think about the state of the game and what it means to them. +1 for the effort.

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