Nidalee buffs are on PBE?? my 2 cents

SwiftKitten88··23 votes·8,112 views

(shame on you if u didn't see THIS coming) currently today pbe has a very small nidalee buff on pbe

Primal Surge (Human Form E) AP ratio on heal increased from 27.5% to 32.5%

now while i agree nidalee does need a small buff. however, i am really question why they choose THIS out of everything she has to "buff"

her first clear is the only time her clear is actaully difficult to do and the on AP u have at that point is from runes/ masteries which is pretty much negligible.

later on in the game nidalee's weakness is her ability to get out alive and not be 1 shot as soon as she goes in. and her burst damage pretty much being the same or less of champion that have 3x her HP and much more sustainability during the fight.

the only time nidalee uses the heal is AFTER a fight. by which she is either already alive.. or already dead. obviously this change would make some difference to her. but as a person who has mained nidalee since the day i started playing in patch 3.6 this is NOT what i would buff.

there are many things you could buff that would be much more useful

first off reducing her kitty from cooldowns from 6 second they have had in season 7 back to the 5 seconds they had in seasons 1-6 there is no need for this change even when it was done... there is certainly no need to keep it.

another simple QOL life change (not even a buff) could be to make takedown prioritize hunted targets in range unless a direct target was given takedown grants an 50 unit extended auto attack range. and for whatever reason despite the fact that if you use a empowered pounce after u land a spear on a target by doing so you need to click DIRECTLY on the champion being targeted. the game STILL does not issue an attack command afterwards as if they were targeted. this leads to rather annoying situations when you pounce in on someone in a creep wave or under a tower and takedown attacks the "closest" target in range, be it a minion or a tower, rather than the champion you JUST CLICKED ON. the vast majority if the time this is not an issue because there are no other targets i range, but since take-down is the majority of your damage as nidalee. having that miss in a fight will lose you the fight 9 times out of 10.

if you dont want to change those.. you could help her out by giving her her % hp back on her traps the "reason" for the removal of this in season 5 was "because the cap of 200 vs jungle camps made it so she could stack them under red/ bluff buff then kill it with just those. so instead of lowering the PRE-EXISTING CAP of 200 that was already there to a more manageable number like idk.. 50? you remove the % damage entirely? to this day i have not gotten a straight answer from riot as to why this was done with there was a blatantly obvious solution that is not only much better... but easier to implement as there would only be one number change... you could also give her her VISION back on trap placements.. which you nerfed from 1400 (the same vision Caitlyn traps give when placed) to 400.

the last buff (which i think might be to big too give her in her current state) would be to give her her FULL pounce reset when pouncing to a champion or when killing a unit. and only keep the "reduced reset" which u added in season 6. when pouncing to a jungle camp.

THIS change would ALLOW her to LANE again. something she has not been able to do since patch 5.4.

THESE are the changes nidalee needs.. take your pick riot... but buffing her HEAL is NOT what she needs.

42 Comments

Ravenhale27 votes

Duh, these buffs are so she can buy Ardent Censor and run Windspeakers ^_^

ModDaenrysTargaryen10 votes

SUPPORT NID

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

SUPPORT NID

support nidale hasnt been viable since 5.4 when she lost 10% hp on her traps and got it replaced with 40 damage. (which btw.. was HALF of her pre-rework damage traps which did flat damage, AND didnt her her pre-rework AOE. OR her pre-rework %armor pen/magic shred

Catastrop1 votes

{quoted}

(which btw.. was HALF of her pre-rework damage traps which did flat damage, AND didnt her her pre-rework AOE. OR her pre-rework %armor pen/magic shred

God this is triggering some PTSD flashbacks of when I first started playing the game and Nidalee Bot would actually oneshot with me a trap.

SpookyNeedle1 votes

{quoted}

Duh, these buffs are so she can buy Ardent Censor and run Windspeakers ^_^

Her heal already increases AS xd

Novalas18 votes

My understanding of the Nidalee buff is that this change is geared more towards pro play since 7.18 is the Worlds patch. Currently, it's not uncommon for Nidalee players to build Athene's Unholy Grail and/or Ardent Censer and play a supportive role from the jungle for the team. With an increased AP ratio on her E, she may see play with the aforementioned play pattern.

You shouldn't take that as this buff not having an impact on Nidalee players in solo queue, however. This buff enhances Nidalee's play pattern of weaving in and out, increasing her healing output and allowing her and her team better sustain in teamfights.

KazeNekochan3 votes

So does this mean we will see some changes that will help out lane nidalee after worlds maybe? It still feels really bad that old school nidalee players have been forced either out of position or out from playing our favorite champ if we don;t want to put ourselves and our team at a serious disadvantage. It also feels bad getting flamed for picking nidalee top/mid or build ad when it isn't "meta"

Is there any way we can get some changes for that aren't geared towards pro play? I'm also scared she could get abused at worlds and then get nerfed even further for solo q.

Galiö1 votes

After worlds the game is going to be vastky different with new fusion of runes and mastery system. Cant tweak her based off of how she is now after worlds.

AirKingNeo17 votes

Buffs to champions/lack of nerfs to champions because of pro events makes no sense. Like, who is gonna say, "OMG, SEJUANNI ISN'T AS BROKEN AS SHE WAS IN SCRIMS! THIS IS GOING TO RUIN PRO PLAY AND REMOVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE SPORT!" Why the fuck does solo queue have to suffer because of this non-existent person is claimed to exist?

KazeNekochan1 votes

{quoted}

Buffs to champions/lack of nerfs to champions because of pro events makes no sense. Like, who is gonna say, "OMG, SEJUANNI ISN'T AS BROKEN AS SHE WAS IN SCRIMS! THIS IS GOING TO RUIN PRO PLAY AND REMOVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE SPORT!" Why the fuck does solo queue have to suffer because of this non-existent person is claimed to exist?

I don't like buffs/nerfs based around pro play either unless it's something severe. They will play what ever is good regardless mean while we have players who are dedicated to maining champions and they always seem to be the ones who get thrown under the bus for players who are just going to fotm anyway :/

Shuyin17811 votes

I'm fine with them doing balancing for the Worlds patch because it's pretty much the Super Bowl of League. After that patch is when things get a bit more hectic again, especially with pre-season being 4 patches after the Worlds patch goes live.

Wee Tit1 votes

I always get a kick out of what you trash players say in the boards. You think it matters at all which champion you play in your irrelevant skill bracket? News flash, it doesn't. If the game is balanced around your level of play, the game would suck ass, because you don't understand anything about it other than what your champions do.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Glad I'm not talking about my level of play. I'm talking about Diamond+ and what the game should be fundamentally balanced on.

You know, where Sejuanni is really fucking broken.

SwiftKitten886 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sf3qKlhl,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-08-28T23:44:17.946+0000)

My understanding of the Nidalee buff is that this change is geared more towards pro play since 7.18 is the Worlds patch. Currently, it's not uncommon for Nidalee players to build Athene's Unholy Grail and/or Ardent Censer and play a supportive role from the jungle for the team. With an increased AP ratio on her E, she may see play with the aforementioned play pattern.

You shouldn't take that as this buff not having an impact on Nidalee players in solo queue, however. This buff enhances Nidalee's play pattern of weaving in and out, increasing her healing output and allowing her and her team better sustain in teamfights.

oh i see.. so its not becuase you think she actaully NEEDS it .. its because a pro want to play it...

if you want nidalee to play a supportive role.. LET HER SUPPORT!!! give her her % hp traps back

every nidalee main on the planet has been dying for love this past season. and you buff her HEAL because a "pro player" wants it?

i mean come on.. i am SICK of this.

i would rather NEVER see my main picked in pro play than it see it get 100% pick banned like last season.

if i wanted a "support jungler" i would go "Ivern that's NOT what nidalee is.

i appreciate the info, but the info provided just disgusts me.

i would rather you NERF HER out of pro play and have and have me deal with that, than have deal with the way people treat her when she is viable in pro play but still trash everywhere else.

instead of giving her what she NEEDS to be viable for the hundreds of thousands of nidalee players across the world, you give her something that practically NO ONE wants her to do which is be a shittier version of Ivern when he is banned out at worlds.

Penns3 votes

She doesnt really need buffs from what ive seen tho, especially since tank jungle items keep getting nerfed

SweedishGunner1 votes

Yeah Nidalee seems fine in the right hands.

I'd be scared of her completely invalidating every other jungler like she has in the past.

DCYOUNG8881 votes

Can you give context as to why Elise's Rappel is getting nerfed in the late game? I presume those changes are for pro play also.

Yordle Xayah1 votes

Yeah, that and the Ryze buffs don't really make much sense other than pros like em for Worlds

LightIsMyPath1 votes

Don't you think it's still unlikely that a champion with so poor first clear will get picked in competitive scenario where they value so much pressure? And why is a supposed assassin be pushed (even if only slightly) towards an enchanter playstyle? (general questions, personally I could even try this version of her and go back to happily miss spears and feed while still doing something xD)

Catastrophic1 votes

I saw the preview and thought you were being a drama queen http://imgur.com/g1KjHvb

I see your point, but then again, I don't play nidalee, so what should I know?

Spearcat1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Novalas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sf3qKlhl,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-08-28T23:44:17.946+0000)

My understanding of the Nidalee buff is that this change is geared more towards pro play since 7.18 is the Worlds patch. Currently, it's not uncommon for Nidalee players to build Athene's Unholy Grail and/or Ardent Censer and play a supportive role from the jungle for the team. With an increased AP ratio on her E, she may see play with the aforementioned play pattern.

You shouldn't take that as this buff not having an impact on Nidalee players in solo queue, however. This buff enhances Nidalee's play pattern of weaving in and out, increasing her healing output and allowing her and her team better sustain in teamfights.

I think a more appropriate buff would have been to bugfix the damn double-stack passive bug which shows the pounce extention line all the way across the map to a target you can't even pounce to. I've been complaining about it for a while now and nobody seems to notice item 3070

Also the fact her heal is so useless early is the main issue with her clear. Why not increase the base healing rather than its scaling so she doesn't have a 10% execute rate in low elo lol I understand this is a fix to help with worlds but her early heal now is barely worth using for the mana it costs. I feel like i can lifesteal more with spell vamp at level one than I get from the damn heal xD

All joking aside, the buff is decent but it's not going to make a big enough effect in my opinion. Also please can this bug get fixed it's driving me mad. I pretty much experience it every single game

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Why do u think about pro play at last minutes ?? I mean shouldn't u care about World during the whole year ???

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Oh great. It's not like nidalee is already annoying as fuck thanks to her self heal, double abilities and crazy clearspeed. Did we actually forget how nidalee pretty much dominated soloQ and proplay alike? Don't we have to suffer with ardent meta already because pro diversity is more important than nerfing this garbage item? Take a break please.

Edit: Nidalee is already a VERY good pick against tank junglers so i guess she would see play anyways.

Bladerunner77773 votes

RIOT WHY

WHY ARE YOU BUFFING HEALS/SHIELDS

SwiftKitten881 votes

also.. would it be possible to DELAY any nidalee buffs so they they WON'T go live until the patch AFTER worlds.. i REALLY don't want repeat of last year. with everyone going all mental about her.

nidalee is a champion that because of her design to have zero from of CC of any kind, and her ENTIRE kit being based around a very hard to land skillshot. naturally works INSANELY better with coordinated teams with voice chat and 2 ms ping. which can set up a guaranteed spear hit on every gank with proper team comp and properly timed cc. i don't need to see her get mindless hate because the best playesr in the world who have play each other with voice chat can do something that is NEVER going to happen in any sort of solo que game, and have people "cry havoc" about that

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

What do you think about getting an enhanced Pounce range on kill?

SwiftKitten883 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sf3qKlhl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-08-28T22:31:30.932+0000)

What do you think about getting an enhanced Pounce range on kill?

what she needs is to get her pounce BACK after a kill so she can get OUT. the increased of kitty form skills to 6 seconds from 5 and the reduction of the reset on her pounce to NOT be 70% flat at all ranks. means that if you pounce in.. at lvl 3 (which you would do for trading in a lane) your "reset" is going down from 6 seconds to "4 seconds" which is not remotely a reset is is NOT going to get out at all.. when it used to go from 5 seconds to 1.5 seconds.. which.. WAS a reset

KazeNekochan1 votes

This change really only helps AP nidalee out and its going to end up making the ardent/redemption build on her even more common. I would really love for changes that help her out in lane as well as something that helps her AD/tank builds. Reducing her cougar abilities or giving her back her auto resets would be an amazing start. her trading in lane is rather weak and her sustain really isn't that good.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

This change really only helps AP nidalee out and its going to end up making the ardent/redemption build on her even more common. I would really love for changes that help her out in lane as well as something that helps her AD/tank builds. Reducing her cougar abilities or giving her back her auto resets would be an amazing start. her trading in lane is rather weak and her sustain really isn't that good. Nidalee used to be a lane bully but now she gets beat in almost every match up AND falls off late game.

i dont feel the auto attacks resets on anything except for ulti form change is nesscary. as and i much as i want that back.. it really was too abusable in the jungle. becuase that mechanic just helped out higher elos nid and hurt those who codult pull it off properly.. which she didn't really need.

granted i loved having it... and i woudl like them back.. but i can understand why they were taken away at least. at the time it was necessary.

KazeNekochan1 votes

{quoted}

i dont feel the auto attacks resets on anything except for ulti form change is nesscary. as and i much as i want that back.. it really was too abusable in the jungle. becuase that mechanic just helped out higher elos nid and hurt those who codult pull it off properly.. which she didn't really need.

granted i loved having it... and i woudl like them back.. but i can understand why they were taken away at least. at the time it was necessary.

I don't think it was a problem for lower elo players to pull it off it's just an auto reset. If someone really can't do it all they need to do is go into a practice mode for a few mins and figure it out. I think they should have just reduced her damage to jungle monsters instead of removing the auto resets.

A Bad Nasus1 votes

I think they should have increased her base + scaling hp for starters.

I literally cringe whenever I see someone hover nid nothing personal, but she is just awful whenever she is played by someone without dedicated experience on her to an even greater extent than this guy LeeSin

KazeNekochan2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Everlasting Tilt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sf3qKlhl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-28T23:21:16.398+0000)

I think they should have increased her base + scaling hp for starters.

I literally cringe whenever I see someone hover nid nothing personal, but she is just awful whenever she is played by someone without dedicated experience on her to an even greater extent than this guy LeeSin

I think that would be a better buff than what they are doing as it would help her out in all forms of her gameplay styles. However I disagree with the idea that every champion needs to be super easy to pick up. They should have left her like this way back pre 5.2 and just let nidalee players keep playing her the way she was instead of trying to make her jungle super easy.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

She needs to be a bit better on the first clear. Reverts of the CD's of her cougar abilities should be sufficient. Season 7 jungle is a lot tougher than the S6 version and Nidalee isn't outpacing people like she was last season.

Neidox1 votes

I agree, I was looking forward to meaningful Nidalee changes. All they did was reinforce a certain playstyle.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

now while i agree nidalee does need a small buff.

She dosn't. The only thing she need is for tank to be nerfed... and tbh she's fine when tank jng are meta...

Catastrop1 votes

Her heal scales on missing health right? So it effectively increases the ratio on a relevant target to 65% as opposed to 55%, or did I get that wrong? That's still pretty underwhelming imo and can't really see it bringing lane nid back.

I think maybe the reasoning behind this buff is Riot probably thinks she's good right now and just want to draw some attention to her.

4GLTE1 votes

I dont get why they make Competitive Nidalee stronger rather than buffing SoloQ Nidalee. ... Remove Catch UP xp?`

Kloqdq1 votes

It is for sure not the buff I would do for Nid.

FakeGravity1 votes

honestly i would prefer a small rework where she is a hunter from the jungle and her spears do less damage but do increase damage against enemies reveal by her traps, kinda like caitlyn a jungler more focus on tracking the enemy jungler with traps and snipering with her Q and less on heavy outfarming then you make the traps to %damage or the do % damage if the enemy is trap or something like that, keep the heal buff and now she can be a much better supporting jungler

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

honestly i would prefer a small rework where she is a hunter from the jungle and her spears do less damage but do increase damage against enemies reveal by her traps, kinda like caitlyn a jungler more focus on tracking the enemy jungler with traps and snipering with her Q and less on heavy outfarming then you make the traps to %damage or the do % damage if the enemy is trap or something like that, keep the heal buff and now she can be a much better supporting jungler

um that would actually be horrible XD

her old traps (seaosn 1-3) did 80 + .4ap damage in an aoe at lvl 1 and had a 20% +% per lvl of traps armor and magic resist shred in an aoe and granted 1400 vision when placed. and gives true sight for 8 seconds

her reworked traps (season 4) did 20 damage + 10% max hp + 1% per 50 AP (capped at 200 vs monsters) granting 1400 vision when placed (and procs hunted) (does not give true sight) dot over 4 seconds

her gutted (current) traps do 40 damage + .2 ap. granting 400 vision when placed (and procs hunted) (was given true sight back in 7.1 for 4 seconds) (technically they removed it 7.2 when they added it to her passive but becane her traps trigger her passive its effectively the same and give it spears true sight too)

now traps is and ALWAYS has be the skill nidalee maxes LAST

now it would be rude to leave out the fact that riot DID actually make traps invisble now and targetable with TP, BUT they can also be killed now.

still i think that was a buff. the the pathetic damage remains the same.

the thing is back before her rework in 4.10...

her spears did a LOT more damage (nearly twice as much) and her traps at that time ALSO did 20% MR/ armor shred (45% at lvl 18)

so you basically want her spears to do LESS now and her her traps be the SAME as pre-rework.

her traps take 2 seconds to arm.. she with be beyond worthless if she HAD to have someone step on them. i mean that's one of the reasons the % hp was fine in first place.. tanks and bruiser have always hardcountered nidalee. but if you were able to get them to CHASE you through some traps (like 3 or 4) you could potentially turn it around.

i vividly remeber the patch where her traps where changed to 40 flat damage from 20+ 10% hp

one game i was playing support Nidalee .. and a enemy Leona walked over SIX traps i had placed... she took about 100 damage becuase of her base MR and HP regen. when the patch before for steppign on SIX TRAPS she would have lost SIXTY PERCENT of her hp.

this is the change that killed support nidalee. as she no longer had any zoning power

the same patch i was also playing Nidalee mid lane vs a TwistedFate (back then traps where visible)

and every time i placed a trap, he would go OUT OF HIS WAY to go and step on it and then dance "gangnam style". daring me to pounce in. and he was right... the traps did NOTHING. and he choose to step on them when he knew it was not remotely safe to go in.

so yeah... i have VERY vivid memories of this change

SwiftKitten881 votes

Well it looks like these have stayed on pbe this whole time so it looks like they are going to go live...[slayer-jinx-unamused] .

you know i have be saying nidalee needs buffs for nearly a year now..

and i still and at a loss despite the riot post saying why.

as to why they choose of all things not only the ONE thing she didn't need a buff to.

but buffing HEALING when that is already that stat that is out of control on pretty much every healing champsion.

like WHY??

avarisce1 votes

im a little late on the topic but please i would love an escape option for nidalee. a reset on champion takedowns would be amazing so i can get out quickly

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