Revert the Riven buffs

Jar Jar binks l·Jul 15, 2019·36 votes·12,330 views

She got huge buffs 2 Patches ago which made her toxic and unbearable in diamond +

Revert her buffs but keep the E nerf

42 Comments

wolviusJul 15, 201928 votes

The problem is that "nerf " wasnt a nerf it was them shifting power in her kit because according to riot she was perfectly 'balanced' yet frustrating and not warranting a nerf. I guess being positive winrate against your hard-counter (renekton) is balanced. Fucking ~~bethesda~~ Rito game.

Edit:Wow <1 minute downvote

Edit2: for all riven mains https://youtu.be/AzjbvLwivd8

ModWulf HelhammerJul 15, 20194 votes

You mean the buffs in 8.13, a year ago? Because that was the last time she got real buffs.

SuicidePlankJul 15, 201924 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-15T15:46:54.162+0000)

You mean the buffs in 8.13, a year ago? Because that was the last time she got real buffs.

Her """"""Nerf"""""" you know, the one with the compensation buff, increased her WR. So just maybe that was a buff? oO

ModWulf HelhammerJul 15, 20193 votes

Except it didn't.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/287799626168401921/600355994559709327/Capture.PNG

She went from a 52.2% win rate/10% pick rate to 51%/6.2% pick rate (and generally, a decrease in pick rate causes an increase in win rate). Still today she's not as high in either category as she was before the nerfs.

SuicidePlankJul 15, 201922 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:05:01.759+0000)

Except it didn't.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/287799626168401921/600355994559709327/Capture.PNG

She went from a 52.2% win rate/10% pick rate to 51%/6.2% pick rate (and generally, a decrease in pick rate causes an increase in win rate). Still today she's not as high in either category as she was before the nerfs.

Except she does have a 53% WR in D+ with a Pickrate of 11.6%. Whoopsie. ;)

ModWulf HelhammerJul 15, 20192 votes

Please list your sources, give evidence. Don't just spout statistics without any backing.

And is that now, on the current patch that is 3 ones later from the nerf, or on the same patch as the nerf?

Because that's going to be very situations.

SuicidePlankJul 15, 201913 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:11:40.147+0000)

Please list your sources, give evidence. Don't just spout statistics without any backing.

And is that now, on the current patch that is 3 ones later from the nerf, or on the same patch as the nerf?

Because that's going to be very situations.

https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build?rank=diamond_plus

u.gg lmao. Which other Website has that exact stats? op.gg? xD

ModWulf HelhammerJul 15, 20194 votes

Ah yes, we should judge a champion's balance state totally by the best players.

Also: the changes still decreased her win rate and pick rate on the patch they came out

How something develops 3 patches later is not the concern of a single nerf which did it's exact job of lowering her win rate minorly, focusing mainly on frustration.

SuicidePlankJul 15, 201915 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:20:25.476+0000)

Ah yes, we should judge a champion's balance state totally by the best players.

Also: the changes still decreased her win rate and pick rate on the patch they came out

How something develops 3 patches later is not the concern of a single nerf which did it's exact job of lowering her win rate minorly, focusing mainly on frustration.

We should judge her by the people who can fully utilize her kit yes. But even below, she still has a positive WR against her Counters.

Do you main Riven yourself, or where does your bias come from?

ModWulf HelhammerJul 15, 20194 votes

But even below, she still has a positive WR against her Counters.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/287799626168401921/600362423630823434/Capture.PNG

?????

Do you even read your own sources past the headline?

And no, I don't main Riven. And no, I don't have any kind of personal bias. My argument comes from the fact that people like OP lie about stats, misrepresent the facts, and argue for extreme nerfs for a champion that for the most part is fine where she is, and the board's user base just doesn't like her since she can beat them, so instead of changing their play, they instead argue that she should just be nerfed instead.

SuicidePlankJul 15, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:32:31.394+0000)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/287799626168401921/600362423630823434/Capture.PNG

?????

Do you even read your own sources past the headline?

And no, I don't main Riven. And no, I don't have any kind of personal bias. My argument comes from the fact that people like OP lie about stats, misrepresent the facts, and argue for extreme nerfs for a champion that for the most part is fine where she is, and the board's user base just doesn't like her since she can beat them, so instead of changing their play, they instead argue that she should just be nerfed instead.

Guess who many people would consider her biggest Counter? Exactly, Renekton (51%) and Darius 52% WR. That's what I mean.

HopeStartsWithUJul 15, 20193 votes

No single soul counts Renekton or Darius her counters. Darius back then, when he wasn't telegraphed (old Q) and when you couldn't dash out of his E, THAT Darius countered her. Now, Riven actually is a Darius counter since the rework. Even when he was completely busted, Riven would win the laning phase.

Renekton is considered a skill matchup, even by Renekton mains. Renekton is a lane bully against a lot of champs but Riven IS a skill matchup. It's harder to face a non braindead Garen than a decent Renekton, simply because_how the kits interact._

But that's not the problem here. Her damage didn't do shit. Low elo players doesn't abuse that 1 sec and high elo players already timed their Qs to reset perfectly that she can throw out another combo.

That one second was literally pseudo. Her E did hit her hard which just forced her to trade less. What Riven needs is 1)Deaths dance going through shields or the healing gutted 2)shojin removed 3)conqueror only stackable by autoattacks.

If anyone here would play her and actually remember the switch from lethality/pen to DD+Cleaver would KNOW that glass cannon Riven is pretty much trash and extremely hard to pull off. Riven mains WANT lethality "I burst your entire team if did right" Riven back.

SuicidePlankJul 15, 20192 votes

[deleted]

Troll for TrumpJul 16, 20194 votes

Riven counters Darius. Still mostly skill-based, but: bad riven > bad dar good riven > good dar good dar > bad riven

Because her laning pattern is a more extreme version of Renekton's, and the in-out playstyle is good against Dar, especially when her E outranges and has a lower CD than dar's E. She statchecks better via conqueror abuse too, as the game goes on. Dar only counters her really late in the game, like lvl14 ish? Game is usually decided by then.

AlterMordredJul 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ðownright Darius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-16T00:01:06.880+0000)

Riven counters Darius. Still mostly skill-based, but: bad riven > bad dar good riven > good dar good dar > bad riven

Because her laning pattern is a more extreme version of Renekton's, and the in-out playstyle is good against Dar, especially when her E outranges and has a lower CD than dar's E. She statchecks better via conqueror abuse too, as the game goes on. Dar only counters her really late in the game, like lvl14 ish? Game is usually decided by then.

Darius counters riven in a couple of ways, (this coming from an extreme Darius otp), A) if you take aftershock you can survive the laning phase and her ability to one shot you is negated if you land a GOOOD E (I.E AFTERSHOCK blocks some of her damage) but Riven can play around it and time her burst after it procs, B) I think around 14-16 when you have Steraks and some armor items you have a chance of beating her if you E her out of her 3rd Q, at 16 your R is dealing around 800-1k true damage depending on your build (with 5 stack passive AD active) so if you can get her down to half you can kill her effectively again, if you havent been one shot in .1 second due to aNiMAtiOn caNCeLS

HopeStartsWithUJul 16, 20192 votes

Key to beating Riven is 1) Out DPSing/bursting her 2)Cancelling/avoid her CC (knock up and stun)

Darius should win if Riven doesn't have much pen and Darius has thornmail to negate her healing.

After shock is all nice and good but you need to hit your E for that and a good Riven won't let you do that.

I would say the best rune against Riv would be phase rush. Rivens trading pattern is that she "escapes" before the enemy can do anything, waiting for CDs and then trade again until she can safely all in you.

She is strong because she has mobility, phase rush will keep up with the mobility just fine if used well. For early pressure ignite and she definitly shouldnt be able to win. Yet again, it highly depends on how aggressive the Riven is and how she uses her spells. Against Darius, a good Riven will definitly not waste a single Q to get in range and rather walk up to deal damage with Q1 and Q2 and disengage with E Q3.

But I am by no means a Darius expert. I just had Darius players make laning hell with phase rush which always forced a pretty defensive playstyle.

EDIT:Answered the wrong guy because of boards bug. Sorry about that one

Troll for TrumpJul 16, 20191 votes

I don't think Riven can actually outspeed Dar E. It's usually "whoever fks up first gets hard punished MU". Dar can't really engage at all (limited to mostly aa+w. Riven has to be careful with her short trades. The problem is RIven auto dodges post-rework Dar's Q basically everytime which screws you over. Ignite stinks too.

wolviusJul 15, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:32:31.394+0000)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/287799626168401921/600362423630823434/Capture.PNG

?????

Do you even read your own sources past the headline?

And no, I don't main Riven. And no, I don't have any kind of personal bias. My argument comes from the fact that people like OP lie about stats, misrepresent the facts, and argue for extreme nerfs for a champion that for the most part is fine where she is, and the board's user base just doesn't like her since she can beat them, so instead of changing their play, they instead argue that she should just be nerfed instead.

Her main counter is supposed to be renekton and their having to give him a whole new addition to his kit because for some reason she has the advantage now. Which also screws over other champs that he already wrecked preshield smash, because of the rito special of not dealing with the problem. How long did it take for them to change obscure where they instead just messed around with her damage and shroud CD

I Give You HIVJul 15, 20194 votes

"Instead of changing their play"? This is a skill issue? Boards user base just needs to get good right?

Oh wait. https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/?rank=master_plus

Masters+, she has 54.55% win rate, 19.3% ban rate, 10.9% pick rate.

I guess these Masters, Grandmasters, and Challenger players need to learn to deal with her as well.

wolviusJul 15, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:20:25.476+0000)

Ah yes, we should judge a champion's balance state totally by the best players.

Also: the changes still decreased her win rate and pick rate on the patch they came out

How something develops 3 patches later is not the concern of a single nerf which did it's exact job of lowering her win rate minorly, focusing mainly on frustration.

Reduced her frustration? She now only needs 20ish% CDR for her Q to be off cooldown instantly if she spaced her Q's out and it's not like she has any mana pool to worry about. That "nerf" also gives he more potential passive procs because her q is off cooldown more often (and more mobile just what we need). Her winrate dipped to 51% @ just under 10% playrate for one patch that winrate is not even as low as Asol winrate has just dipped this patch.

They seem perfectly fine dumpstering galio, nerfing support kench, nerfing/reworking ryze because of pro-play alone, ryze can have <45% winrate and get nerfed because of pro.

AlterMordredJul 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:20:25.476+0000)

Ah yes, we should judge a champion's balance state totally by the best players.

Also: the changes still decreased her win rate and pick rate on the patch they came out

How something develops 3 patches later is not the concern of a single nerf which did it's exact job of lowering her win rate minorly, focusing mainly on frustration.

Let me correct you on two things, Diamonds are far from 'best players' if you played with them youd realize how many mistakes they make, they just spam more games, second, Riven is beyond broken, her Q needs to change so that the cooldown starts on the third cast rather than the first

CevradJul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:20:25.476+0000)

Ah yes, we should judge a champion's balance state totally by the best players.

Also: the changes still decreased her win rate and pick rate on the patch they came out

How something develops 3 patches later is not the concern of a single nerf which did it's exact job of lowering her win rate minorly, focusing mainly on frustration.

Ignore the plebs. They don't understand that a champion when nerfed alot of the time will keep its winrate unless it was a total gutting of the champion. Reason being obviously that people who main the champion are still going to play said champion, but the masses of people who were bad with it and just playing the FotM stopped playing it.

FlashesJul 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wilk Rycerz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T16:20:25.476+0000)

Ah yes, we should judge a champion's balance state totally by the best players.

Also: the changes still decreased her win rate and pick rate on the patch they came out

How something develops 3 patches later is not the concern of a single nerf which did it's exact job of lowering her win rate minorly, focusing mainly on frustration.

Have you seen the Diamond 4 stats? There are about as many players in Diamond 4 as there are in the ENTIRETY of Iron.

Not to mention Riven is a champion gated by a "high skill cap" so actually, now that you mention it, Riven SHOULD be judged by only the best players.

General Esdeath Jul 15, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Her """"""Nerf"""""" you know, the one with the compensation buff, increased her WR. So just maybe that was a buff? oO

Or maybe boards just doesn't know how to deal with her? Seriously every time she's changed it's a new complaint. First it was the shield, then it was the Q, and I promise you if they revert the change people are gonna complain about the CDR, and when her cooldowns are increased people will complain about her damage.

SuicidePlankJul 15, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-15T20:49:17.359+0000)

Or maybe boards just doesn't know how to deal with her? Seriously every time she's changed it's a new complaint. First it was the shield, then it was the Q, and I promise you if they revert the change people are gonna complain about the CDR, and when her cooldowns are increased people will complain about her damage.

This isn't a boards thing, if you would look at the stats provided.

I Give You HIVJul 15, 20194 votes

Clearly these silver noobs on boards don't know how to deal with her. That's why in higher elo, people who aren't noobs actually start to beat her...

Oh wait. https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/?rank=master_plus

Masters+, she has 54.55% win rate, 19.3% ban rate, 10.9% pick rate.

jUsT lEaRn To DeAl wItH hEr is not valid.

General Esdeath Jul 15, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Give You HIV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2019-07-15T22:49:19.333+0000)

Clearly these silver noobs on boards don't know how to deal with her. That's why in higher elo, people who aren't noobs actually start to beat her...

Oh wait. https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/?rank=master_plus

Masters+, she has 54.55% win rate, 19.3% ban rate, 10.9% pick rate.

jUsT lEaRn To DeAl wItH hEr is not valid.

When did I say it was a rank issue? I said people HERE, on the BOARDS don't know how to. People in higher rank also have champs they don't know how to deal with. Welcome to League.

I Give You HIVJul 15, 20193 votes

Oh it's specifically boards that doesn't know how to deal with her. Clearly then high elo doesn't know how to either as shown by the stats. Maybe there is an indication there that it's an issue with Riven.

General Esdeath Jul 15, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Give You HIV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-15T22:59:23.447+0000)

Oh it's specifically boards that doesn't know how to deal with her. Clearly then high elo doesn't know how to either as shown by the stats. Maybe there is an indication there that it's an issue with Riven.

Possibly, but there's a difference between high elo and boards and who they complain about. Kat has been at a huge win rate in high elo for a while and only today have I finally seen a front page post talking about her.

CevradJul 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=I Give You HIV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seHZtAan,comment-id=0000000000010001,timestamp=2019-07-15T22:49:19.333+0000)

Clearly these silver noobs on boards don't know how to deal with her. That's why in higher elo, people who aren't noobs actually start to beat her...

Oh wait. https://u.gg/lol/champions/riven/build/?rank=master_plus

Masters+, she has 54.55% win rate, 19.3% ban rate, 10.9% pick rate.

jUsT lEaRn To DeAl wItH hEr is not valid.

That win rate is lower than where most of the skilled champions in the game sit if they are anywhere near good. There is so much to factor into any given champion and whether it is busted. But her playrate is pretty low if you are looking from a top lane perspective. Not that it matters anyways because she will get completely dumped on by Renekton next patch.

DuskDaUmbreonJul 16, 20192 votes

.16% winrate isn't a real increase. That's entirely covered by random fluctuations for fuck's sake. A single counter being nerfed would change winrate by more than that.

Abibyama IIJul 16, 20192 votes

It's fucking hilarious that they would go so far as to fucking complain about a champion with a dash whose winrate went up by 0.2%

Conveniently leaving out that her playrate went down

Just delete this website

DuskDaUmbreonJul 16, 20191 votes

Dash bad, immobility good

Upnoodles to the --->DOWN

Genocide VictimJul 15, 20193 votes

Why would they ever buff Riven. She must always remain unplayable trash

HopeStartsWithUJul 15, 20192 votes

The changes dropped her winrate.

Anyway, dia is a bad way to doom a champ op. People are expected to stomp with their mains, especially if they are dedicated enough to get to dia with their main. Platin+ is a bit more reliable there.

PaffWasTakenJul 15, 20194 votes

The changes dropped her winrate.

But ~~you~~ it DIDN'T https://youtu.be/Wf9FYqkyfIw?t=4

HopeStartsWithUJul 15, 20192 votes

I mean I can't drop the winrate I have almost 60% winrate every season with her (I know that you mean the video lmao).

Her winrates did drop tho. Across all elos. Significantly in low elo. Yesterday when I looked her up her winrate was below 50% until gold and got to 51% at platin. It was at something around 53% in platin pre nerfs as far as I remember.

TheBrothersGrymmJul 16, 20192 votes

Riven is so busted in all elos, manaless cheap ass build that gives her cdr, and SoS which is unhealthy for the game, she takes zero skill, what animation cancels??? oh clicking a button? jumping over a wall? read the ability it tells you how to do it. a massive shield that should scale like garbage but instead scales pretty well, i mean she can proc conq in literally 2 seconds, they nerf wukong cuz he one shots but dont nerf champs that have been issues for years???