Lee sin is destroying the Jungle!

Jar Jar binks l·Jan 28, 2017·67 votes·6,728 views

Yea we all know this champ is OP but what is the most problem is his jungle Impact! He is destroying other junglers because others are forced to pick champions who can match him in the jungle, so other junglers are left in the dust because of him.

Also he is almost in every single game, Riot stated they had a similar problem with lucian and they need to keep him weaker so he isnt picked that much, but with lee sin its ok....

Fix lee sin and u automatically fix the jungle

66 Comments

SinsertaJan 28, 201737 votes

Lee is Riots goldenboy. They won't do much. He's too flashy, and everyone loves flashy.

EskusJan 29, 20171 votes

That is Badr Hari already! [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Touch My BoxJan 28, 201724 votes

He has a solid 30%+ play rate, and has for seasons.

I agree entirely with OP.

They openly admit that they show a double-standard with lee though.

He has a high impact with comp play, so removing him from topdog position will have major consequences.. consequences they don't want to risk being bad.

SnowplosionJan 28, 20173 votes

Even when he was shit tier a couple seasons ago he still had the highest play rate.

NarasimhaJan 28, 20172 votes

He has a solid 30%+ play rate, and has for seasons.

To be fair, only part of it is his strength. Despite what people might say, it does feel genuinely good to pull off plays as Lee. Insect Kick, I think it was called? You feel good because you did something that isn't actually that easy to do without practice. So either you play Lee because you're good enough to do stuff like that, or you play him so that you can become good enough to do it.

Troll for TrumpJan 28, 201713 votes

Insect Kick

lol

NiceTryViJan 28, 20172 votes

my eye twitched a bit when I read that.

Troll for TrumpJan 29, 20171 votes

Twitch me too

warmcorntortillaJan 28, 20172 votes

Insec kick, so named after the pro player, Insec, who used it in pro play and popularized the play.

E GIRL SNIPERJan 29, 20172 votes

Insec kicks aren't hard to do at all, it takes maybe 10 games to learn how to ward hop...

Ulquiorra995Jan 28, 20174 votes

But refusing to remove him from topdog position will probably have even more consequences. Riot underestimates or simply chooses to ignore how sick the players are of him. I reckon that once 10 bans hit Lee will only be playable in blind pick. Not because he is broken or overtuned but simply because people are sick of one bastard singlehandedly destroying an entire role's variety. He will become permabanned and Rito will only have their favoritism to blame for it.

Big Black CrocJan 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

But refusing to remove him from topdog position will probably have even more consequences. Riot underestimates or simply chooses to ignore how sick the players are of him. I reckon that once 10 bans hit Lee will only be playable in blind pick. Not because he is broken or overtuned but simply because people are sick of one bastard singlehandedly destroying an entire role's variety. He will become permabanned and Rito will only have their favoritism to blame for it.

"Blind" pick, lol

xxxMadLionxxxJan 28, 201715 votes

Lee sin is destroying the Jungle!

Sounds like he should be charged with deforestation.....

Velzard of KozJan 28, 20172 votes

He's cooperating with Udyr.

VivaLaKittenJan 28, 20172 votes

Udyr would never destroy the forest, he and Ivern had tea together!

PiVoRxJan 28, 20178 votes

"But, but.. Lee got nerfed! Hes balanced now!"

Nerf my ass with such nerf, Still RQQ one shots at lvl6.

DynikusJan 28, 20176 votes

Hecarim Rengar Khazix Nocturne Shyvana Shaco Zac There are plenty of champions that are as good/better than lee sin though

DoktorKaiserJan 28, 20174 votes

Every single of those champions gets easily butfucked by Lee Sin except maybe Shyv ...

LankPantsJan 28, 20173 votes

Shyv's the weakest of them, viable for 2 patches then gutted straight into the ground. The first 4 plus Shaco are the strongest.

VivaLaKittenJan 28, 20172 votes

Shaco is weak though, all he can do is steal or outplay >.>

ModAcademy KaynJan 28, 20176 votes

If we kill Hitler, that should also solve Racism...

LankPantsJan 28, 20175 votes

Fix lee sin and u automatically fix the jungle

It wouldn't solve all of the problems, Kha'zix, Rango and Vi would still be pretty damn busted. It would certainly be good for the meta though.

Bots Whilst HighJan 28, 20171 votes

Zac bugs me more than any of these

what you deserveJan 28, 20174 votes

genuinely concerned about "he is in almost every single game" because i've barely seen one (and none have seen me ;) )

bbQsauçeJan 28, 20174 votes

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GayFluffyUnicornJan 28, 20173 votes

No it started after they made the jungle changes emphasizing on early game and GANK GANK GANK instead of farming. Who is the best jungler in the early game and lane pressure? Lee.

TheTrueQuarianJan 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=bbQ s,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EJ3hPrk6,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-01-28T15:03:23.544+0000)

47.76% winrate, so overpowered rofl. Instead of complaining about bullshit khazix, rengar and VI, you decide to complain about lee sin which is a shit champion unless you know how to play him very well. This forum is such a joke, before the W buffs nobody cared about lee sin and he was considered weak, suddenly after worlds lee became popular so everyone started complaining rofl.. CHOO CHOO! All aboard the whine train! CHOO CHOO!

Try 50% Winrate with a fucking 27% Playrate...

bbQsauçeJan 28, 20171 votes

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3TWarriorJan 29, 20171 votes

lee sin has 49% average winrate from platinum and above (as the base for op.gg's stats) and if we look at champion.gg when he uses masteries to his advantage properly, his win rate is close to 60%

bbQsauçeJan 30, 20171 votes

[deleted]

3TWarriorJan 30, 20171 votes

not quite

1 million thresh games have been played within that last month, 20% of them choose that skill order, therefor, 200,000 games have been played with that skill combination

now, if you divide that by 10 (as i'm sure most people get tired after 10 games of league a day, we could round it up to 12 as lets say a generous "estimate" of high-profile players...let's see what we get)

200,000 / 12 = 16,666 plays of thresh, and the math gets much more complicated if you figure in monthly division as somehow I doubt there are only 500( x5 for the 20% division for a total of 2500) players playing thresh each month with that level of skill

but simply put, if you divide that 200,000 by 30, you come to 6,666 ,plays per day of high skill level, if you divide that by 12 games a day for dedicated players, you get 555 players minimum a month playing with exceptional skill level and 2777 players total minimum for just playing thresh that month

if you want evidence, here is a basic chart of probability of error for participant amounts in a survey

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Soc_participants.shtml

with 2777 players minimum a month, the sample size is sufficient as to a 97.8% chance of being an accurate representation of data or if you want the actual number and not just a represenation of the chart, the chance of the data being correct is 98.102367716779921207009463303947 percent

20% pick rate is a large percentage of thresh players, one in 5 to be exact, so as I said, 1 in 20 games will have a thresh player of above average skill capable of winning 60% of his/her games with that champion...

bbQsauçeJan 30, 20171 votes

[deleted]

3TWarriorJan 30, 20171 votes

op.gg

https://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/ for games played

for statistics of thresh: https://na.op.gg/champion/thresh/statistics/support

thresh has over 934,000 games played within a month, has two skill paths with over 60% win chance

the stats themselves do not make sense because there is not a complete description, but it means that there are such figures to go on

3TWarriorJan 29, 20171 votes

but he also has a 1/4 chance of being played...that means of league's community, let's say 10% are junglers, that's 10,000,000 players if you take 25% of that, that means that there can be a sample size of 2.5 million

you can see where i'm going with this, but how likely is it that even a percentage of them are even "good" with lee?

go to op.gg and look at their champion data... the best lee sin players have close to 60% and even higher win rates

bbQsauçeJan 29, 20171 votes

[deleted]

3TWarriorJan 29, 20171 votes

yes, but if a champion has a higher win rate than the average in the hands of a capable player, it reflects their capabilities, as riot seems to emphasize by nerfing LCS champs

look at op.gg's stats, here, i'll even provide the link... http://na.op.gg/ranking/champions/name=leesin

almost every top lee sin player diamond 2 or above has a 60% win rate...

his "average" winrate is 49.xx but his experienced win rate is off the charts...

MLDzXnRRRJan 28, 20174 votes

I went like 0/5 in 4 minutes with Yi vs Lee some days ago. The classic 4 man invade to kill the jungler, while his Yasuo + Jhin botlane is too lazy to help leashing or ward. Later he was sitting all the time in our part of the jungle... But guess what, Lee lost the game, because they couldn't finish the game on time. His team was even complaining that Yi is broken/ no-skill champ. (I was like 0/8/0 at some point while trying to farm his part of the jungle - because he was sitting in ours - and pushed lanes.)

SnowplosionJan 28, 20172 votes

I hate when Lee is strong because then people in my silver games try to play him. RIP my lp.

VelvetCrotchJan 28, 20172 votes

I agree with this statement and support it. I'm scared if he ever gets a rework cause I have a feeling it will be like katas. Be a bit more complicated but much more sick in dmg and mobility.

I simply hate lee cause of the things U mentioned.

I look forward to the 10 bans cause atm he is not worth to ban him. (Thx to vayne, yahuso, rengar etc) but he definitely will be when 10 bans are out.

Hate this dude.

Mountain WardenJan 28, 20172 votes

Hecarim, zac and rengar are far scarier than lee sin. Hecarim hits way harder than lee sin even built tanky. Zac can initiate from space and cc for days. Rengar will delete you from bush before your neurons have time to single your hands to flash. Lee sin is not problem, especially late game when his damage blows.

TwinkieProJan 29, 20172 votes

Lee Sin is especially apparent this season because of how centered on the early game League has become. A champ that can snowball both himself and allies will have a strong impact on the game as a whole. Yes, Lee Sin does fall off in the late game, but there is no risk of that if late game never comes.

PapaGreg21Jan 28, 20171 votes

I haven't been able to play Rammus all season because Lee Sin will just destroy me in my own jungle. I already have to deal with the trying to slowly clear 9 chickens at 10 percent health, I don't need this guy too.

CabalistJan 28, 20171 votes

Please dont make Lee the next Azir

LauchmelderJan 29, 20171 votes

Please make no champion the next Azir. Not even Azir himself deserved the gutting. Nerfs yes, but that level of gutting? Definitely not.

DunkinNoobsJan 29, 20171 votes

Lee Sin counters Hec and and Kha'zix and they're still both top tier. Try again.

Genocide VictimJan 29, 20171 votes

Fix lee sin and u automatically fix the jungle

Lol I wish this was true.

LuggJan 30, 20171 votes

Lee Sin has been severely OP ever since release. As of right now, you could literally cut his damage 50% and he would still be viable in the game due to his utility alone. He needs a nerf that would make even mains rethink taking him since he has been so strong for so long.