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Why on earth does shen still have AP scalings?

Trash MammaI·Jun 3, 2019·1 votes·928 views

There is never a situation (unless you're going ap shen in normals with friends for lulz) where this guy will build AP. He will ALWAYS (unless somehow someone grants him AP) have 0 AP throughout the entire game no matter how many items he has.

His ult needs to scale off armor and MR (it's a shield so it makes sense it'd scale off his own defenses and don't give me that BS like that would be OP when things like Rammus exist or Sion with a shield that scales off HP and he can stack perma hp) his Q should scale off HP like his E as well. It's so dumb that the pointless stat is on his kit. I don't even care if you have to lower the base numbers to increase his scaling.

He is literally the ONLY tank in the game that can't use his scalings at ALL (not including his E because it's fine as is) without trolling. Even with adaptive damage he can't get any AP because it's going to register him as AD due to him NEVER building ap

8 Comments

Hayaishi2Jun 3, 20192 votes

Shitty game design. That is literally the only reason.

SuicidePlankJun 3, 20191 votes

His ult needs to scale off armor and MR (it's a shield so it makes sense it'd scale off his own defenses and don't give me that BS like that would be OP when things like Rammus exist or Sion with a shield that scales off HP and he can stack perma hp) his Q should scale off HP like his E as well.

You mean even further buffing a massive point and click shield, without him losing anything, getting insane amounts of Damage for building tanky, due to buffing his Q and also adding even more damage on his E, for just building tanky.

Do you want to work for Riot? I mean, you missed Runes Reforged, but on what champion you want to slap Damage onto next?

Trash MammaIJun 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You mean even further buffing a massive point and click shield, without him losing anything, getting insane amounts of Damage for building tanky, due to buffing his Q and also adding even more damage on his E, for just building tanky.

Do you want to work for Riot? I mean, you missed Runes Reforged, but on what champion you want to slap Damage onto next?

I did say to lower the base numbers, i'm aware it's dumb to just slap it on there with the current numbers, it's still stupid that he has AP scalings on a champion that will never have any AP (0). His scalings need to be based on something that he builds even if it's low scalings. Also his damage is only good because aftershock and grasp are good. Take those away he does 0 damage even if this change went through.

That being said my point still stands. He's the only tank in the game who can't make use of his scalings (excluding E because it's fine)

SuicidePlankJun 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sXaA5mb1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T04:27:35.729+0000)

I did say to lower the base numbers, i'm aware it's dumb to just slap it on there with the current numbers, it's still stupid that he has AP scalings on a champion that will never have any AP (0).

There are a lot of champs that have AP scalings, even with never building AP. Also, even if you lower his base numbers, unless you do it a lot, adding self %HP will almost always be a buff for a tank.

His scalings need to be based on something that he builds even if it's low scalings. Also his damage is only good because aftershock and grasp are good. Take those away he does 0 damage even if this change went through.

No, it doesn't it is perfectly fine this way and I don't want another tank that can one-twoshot me, like Shen can in early-mid. His Q still chunks in the early, even with not having Grasp.

That being said my point still stands. He's the only tank in the game who can't make use of his scalings (excluding E because it's fine)

Ornn has AD Scalings on his Q. When will he ever build AD? Ornn has AP Scalings on his R. When will he ever build AP? Please check your facts, Ornn is just one example, Shen isn't an exception.

Trash MammaIJun 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

There are a lot of champs that have AP scalings, even with never building AP. Also, even if you lower his base numbers, unless you do it a lot, adding self %HP will almost always be a buff for a tank.

No, it doesn't it is perfectly fine this way and I don't want another tank that can one-twoshot me, like Shen can in early-mid. His Q still chunks in the early, even with not having Grasp.

Ornn has AD Scalings on his Q. When will he ever build AD? Ornn has AP Scalings on his R. When will he ever build AP? Please check your facts, Ornn is just one example, Shen isn't an exception.

Ornn's will in fact build AD through item 3053 and maybe item 3748 if he feels like it, so yes he can make use of that scaling (even if it's a little which is what I was saying for shen) Ornn makes use of his E's scaling due to building armor/mr while he doesn't make use of his ap scaling he still gets a lot out of the other 3/4 abilities whereas shen only gets 1 which is his E that has a long CD and a small as fuck hitbox.

Also an easy fix is to just remove the %hp and increase the base damage and give it scalings. Tanks having %hp damage in general makes 0 sense because they aren't supposed to do damage they're supposed to absorb it. They should be a lot like supports where their damage seems rather high early on but fizzles out late game when people get items and their base damage/scalings don't rise up with their items to really do anything. This is why Leona is always treated so well. She's massively strong early game but her damage kinda washes away late game and she never gets nerfed (IIRC she got buffed recently on her E)

His damage only hurts until the first back then it's kinda gone unless you constantly allow him to hit you and don't hit back.

I'm not asking for a massive buff to shen i'm asking for his scalings to actually do something or increase the damage and take the scaling away overall cause it's actually pointless in his kit

SuicidePlankJun 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sXaA5mb1,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T04:41:17.785+0000)

Ornn's will in fact build AD through and maybe if he feels like it, so yes he can make use of that scaling (even if it's a little which is what I was saying for shen)

No, he will never build anything like that. He is no bruiser, thus not using Steraks and doesn't have problems with clearing waves, thus not needing Tiamat Items.

Ornn makes use of his E's scaling due to building armor/mr while he doesn't make use of his ap scaling he still gets a lot out of the other 3/4 abilities whereas shen only gets 1 which is his E that has a long CD and a small as fuck hitbox.

So...he get's one ability that scales with his stats as Tank..like..wait..like Shen? Also Shens E hitbox isn't small as fuck. That's Kennen/Kayle. Shens Taunt hitbox is his hitbox, lol.

Also an easy fix is to just remove the %hp and increase the base damage and give it scalings. Tanks having %hp damage in general makes 0 sense because they aren't supposed to do damage they're supposed to absorb it.

They are supposed to threaten squishy characters, so yes, they are supposed to deal damage. Not a whole bunch, but atleast some. And %HP Damage is the best way of providing this, because you don't have to build offensive.

They should be a lot like supports where their damage seems rather high early on but fizzles out late game when people get items and their base damage/scalings don't rise up with their items to really do anything.

Tanks have very, very high base damage and scalings. Just look at Malphite/Nautilus.

This is why Leona is always treated so well. She's massively strong early game but her damage kinda washes away late game and she never gets nerfed (IIRC she got buffed recently on her E)

Leona doesn't really do damage on her own, it is her passive, proced by allies.

His damage only hurts until the first back then it's kinda gone unless you constantly allow him to hit you and don't hit back.

Oh wait, because I can AA him in his W? Or because he doesn't get a shield on his Q?

I'm not asking for a massive buff to shen i'm asking for his scalings to actually do something or increase the damage and take the scaling away overall cause it's actually pointless in his kit

Increasing the damage/changing the scalings to a much more favorable. on an already hard hitting early champion, is asking for a massive buff.

Trash MammaIJun 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No, he will never build anything like that. He is no bruiser, thus not using Steraks and doesn't have problems with clearing waves, thus not needing Tiamat Items.

So...he get's one ability that scales with his stats as Tank..like..wait..like Shen? Also Shens E hitbox isn't small as fuck. That's Kennen/Kayle. Shens Taunt hitbox is his hitbox, lol.

They are supposed to threaten squishy characters, so yes, they are supposed to deal damage. Not a whole bunch, but atleast some. And %HP Damage is the best way of providing this, because you don't have to build offensive.

They should be a lot like supports where their damage seems rather high early on but fizzles out late game when people get items and their base damage/scalings don't rise up with their items to really do anything.

Tanks have very, very high base damage and scalings. Just look at Malphite/Nautilus.

Leona doesn't really do damage on her own, it is her passive, proced by allies.

Oh wait, because I can AA him in his W? Or because he doesn't get a shield on his Q?

Increasing the damage/changing the scalings to a much more favorable. on an already hard hitting early champion, is asking for a massive buff.

Bruisers aren't the only ones who build sterak's idk where you got that from.

Ornn naturally gains adaptive damage of AD so regardless of items he WILL get scaling from it.

They "SHOULD" be like a lot of supports as in they shouldn't have that much damage and scalings they should be tanky not burst which is a huge issue in the game right now

Move? Unless you somehow weren't able to dodge the taunt then you deserve to be hit. Once aftershock is blown if he takes it then his damage goes away and if he has grasp then treat it like any other grasp user.

That key word "OR" was in the sentence. This is starting to sound less like reasonable debate and more like someone who is just biased cause they get beat by shen too much

SuicidePlankJun 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sXaA5mb1,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T04:57:42.364+0000)

Bruisers aren't the only ones who build sterak's idk where you got that from.

Name me three people who build Steraks, that aren't bruisers and not trolling. No off meta shit.

Ornn naturally gains adaptive damage of AD so regardless of items he WILL get scaling from it.

So does Shen when he Q AAs people. But where is the scaling on his Ult?

They "SHOULD" be like a lot of supports as in they shouldn't have that much damage and scalings they should be tanky not burst which is a huge issue in the game right now

They are tanky and don't really burst. I don't know what you are on about, let alone Tanks being dogshit overall right now, except in Botlane. Just look at MSI, the only Tank played Toplane was Cho Gath, with one Game which he lost, due being useless.

Move? Unless you somehow weren't able to dodge the taunt then you deserve to be hit. Once aftershock is blown if he takes it then his damage goes away and if he has grasp then treat it like any other grasp user.

Ahh, I never tried moving.

That key word "OR" was in the sentence. This is starting to sound less like reasonable debate and more like someone who is just biased cause they get beat by shen too much

I never played Shen in two months, lol. Because, know what? Tanks are shit and no one wants to play them.

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