Riot you really missed a small but golden idea for Taliyah's W

Trash MammaI·May 18, 2016·143 votes·15,732 views

You should be able to cast it on yourself as a type of wallhop mechanic. Her log-in theme and passive and recall all emphasize how much she enjoys riding on top of a rock/boulder etc. I see no reason to put it on her W allowing for a bit more mobility and putting more emphasis on how she uses the earth to move around. Similar to how Ziggs is with how much he loves blowing shit up. So much so that he can use his satchel on himself because he doesn't care as long as things go BOOM.

I tried to do this in game against bots while I was testing her out and got really sad to see she couldn't do so.

81 Comments

RiotMeddlerMay 19, 201663 votes

It's an idea that got suggested a number of times during her development that we did discuss. We didn't want to offer her the mobility that would involve though, and wanted to keep the ability distinct from Satchel Charge, so while it would be cool for the Taliyah player didn't think it was a good idea.

AkunaitsuMay 19, 20161 votes

But isn't it very similar to Vel'koz E then?

EMetaMay 19, 20161 votes

You can aim enemies to push them in a specific direction with Tal's W.

My Waifu VanillaMay 19, 20161 votes

You also aim with Vel E since it always pulls towards the center iirc.

OyddAWqJ5rMay 19, 20161 votes

No it actually pulls or pushes depending on how far you cast it. Closer = push, further = pull

DeliothMay 19, 20161 votes

It doesn't pull.

Spaceman5pffMay 19, 20161 votes

It always knocks them slightly away, or just up

Blue Moon WolfMay 19, 20167 votes

After trying her W out, I could easily see people accidentally launching themselves into the enemy when running away. Likely a good call to only have it work on enemies .__.

StrawberrycocoaMay 19, 20168 votes

Fuck, I've accidentally launched the enemy to safety instead of doom a few times, can't imagine doing that to myself.

kagepaladinMay 19, 20161 votes

could be worse ive seen them launch enemy top laner into my adc before

StrawberrycocoaMay 19, 20161 votes

So Taliyah is the new "Blitz Grabs Leona" fail, then? XD

Ashfl0wMay 19, 201630 votes

Just saying, but satchel charge now executes turrets. Pretty distinct already tbh. I would just stick to your first argument (balance), as distinctness really is not a valid argument here.

Troll for TrumpMay 19, 20168 votes

Yeah but Taliyah kinda is already similar to a revamped Ziggs. Their Ws and Es are really similar.

It's kinda like how Azir is sorta a upgraded Yorick.

LùmenMay 19, 20165 votes

Azir won't be anything if those damn pro players keep playing him. so many nerfs ><

Troll for TrumpMay 19, 20164 votes

It's kinda like Kalista

LùmenMay 28, 20161 votes

But kalista is still playable becase her high skill cap is even higher than azir's ( in my opinion ) and her passive makes for some pretty sweet plays and outplays.. it's just that azir doesn't have anything to do about his situation..

Troll for TrumpMay 29, 20161 votes

Her kit basically makes tanks pointless. Sorta like Vayne's, but more rounded out (instead of really weak early, hyperstrong lategame) and more teamfight based than dueling.

ADCs shouldn't invalidate tanks that hard.

Silver FluffenbuMay 19, 20161 votes

E activates piecemeal, but that's procced if there is a dash, same as poppy's steadfast presence. the slowing effect is more similar to Lucent Singularity, and the initial and final damage looks like a basic Lay Waste AOE.

the W looks like Satchel charge but instead of calculating movement direction from champion position relative to ability center, mouse position at second cast is plugged in to champion position.

Troll for TrumpMay 19, 20161 votes

Similar but not identical; Riot can't make it identical, as that would enrage a ton of people. The E is used for waveclear and is a "mine" type of effect. The way that the W of Taliyah is used is similar to how people use Zigg's W.

Azir's W is quite different from Yorick's ghouls, but their functions are the same.

ElikainMay 19, 201625 votes

Zigg's Satchel Charge is used to move Ziggs and his opponents in a certain direction and allowing Talyah to do the same would put her in the same boat in terms of how close to Ziggs's ability it is - with just a smaller radius. That's what Meddler is saying. In this case, distinctness is still the major point of the argument, balance being the second. Talyah already has the map mobility via her ultimate and MS buff on her Worked Ground, Rock Surfing near walls. Allowing her to have this mini mobility in lane as well (that is similar to a dash) would be too much.

It doesn't matter if Ziggs's Satchel Charge now has an extra effect that executes turrets below a certain treshhold, it's just one more extra way for him to use the ability than as a glorified mobility tool, which used to be the case since his creation.

DeliothMay 19, 20163 votes

And there's the additional innate power in that Satchel charge launches them straight away from center, but Taliyah can choose the direction.

GaleWinUnleashedMay 19, 20165 votes

There's more distinction, though. Taliyah's ability would very often involve taking the opponent along with her for a trip over the wall, while Ziggs nearly always tries to split himself and his opponent with the Satchel if he can.

It's still not enough to justify giving her what is essentially a normal mobility spell, of course, but I don't believe that Seismic Shove really overlaps with Satchel Charge that much.

ABlueQuakerMay 20, 20161 votes

If we're talking distinctiveness here, did they not see the relation between Seismic Shove and Vel'Koz's Tectonic Disruption? Both AoE, non-missile knock-backs. Even their names are ridiculously similar.

jawd55May 19, 20161 votes

I understand why you didnt allow her this, and maybe this is an idea you guys have had as well, what if she could move allies with it? It would take a lot of her power budget but would be a really cool and impactful ability. Just imagine the full team wall jumpa into baron or clutch escapes. Maybe for a different champ though

GigathorMay 19, 20161 votes

Imagine the trolls. Just... IMAGINE!

Spaceman5pffMay 19, 20161 votes

Sorta related to this, I was playing jungle last night and we were rushing baron and their support Leona warded over the baron wall as we were doing it and taliyah pushing her straight over into the pit and we killed her xD

ALthaGreatMay 19, 20162 votes

oh interesting that it was considered...thx for you response !

ZedexMay 20, 20161 votes

Ironic that Riven's Q was designed to not hop over walls ,but a bug made it possible and then you kept it for #Plays.

Please don't do the same thing, her ultimate (tali) is very strong.

WhiskerWowMay 19, 201612 votes

They purposely did that because instead of opening up new plays, people were more conservative and saved it for the escape.

AATTRROOXXMay 18, 201611 votes

No, they didn't miss this, this was intentional. Also not having damage on her ult was intentional too. Please read the Q&A before being dumb.

DrDiagaMay 18, 201665 votes

{quoted}

No, they didn't miss this, this was intentional. Also not having damage on her ult was intentional too. Please read the Q&A before being dumb.

Yeah because its so easy to read several hundred questions, most of them stupid, and very few replies in comparison.

Or you could not be a jackass.

It Hertz When IPMay 19, 201682 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/970/486/e2c.jpg

ImmortalBloodCYMay 19, 201625 votes

Hardest decision ever.

RendarkanMay 19, 201649 votes

There's a dick joke in there somewhere.

I can't seem to pull it out.

It Hertz When IPMay 19, 20166 votes

I laughed way more at that than I should have.

Pierce The VealMay 19, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LXt3o0ic,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-05-19T00:46:43.434+0000)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/970/486/e2c.jpg

Come on, we all know it's not a difficult decision. He's probably already mashed the fuck out of the left option.

Biff ManlyMay 19, 20164 votes

This man is my spirit animal.

LuminosNMay 18, 20168 votes

casting it on herself would be too strong imo since it's way more reliable than Zigg's satchel charge

alfavhunterMay 19, 20164 votes

{quoted}

casting it on herself would be too strong imo since it's way more reliable than Zigg's satchel charge

Actually it wouldn't because of she cast it on herself as a peek for a melee on her the melee would go with her, resulting in not actually escaping melee range

By making it self cast able it increases her mobility but removes one of her self peel effects from it which would be an even trade As it forces the ability to be predictions instead of reactive when she gets jumped

MazariamontiMay 19, 20167 votes

Her not being able to use the earth to leap around is really hurting my earth bender role play

Serpents EmbraceMay 18, 20163 votes

That is actually really disappointing.

Perhaps it's a conscious decision, though? Unlike Ziggs, she has a lot of mobility enhancers. Her passive, her Worked Ground and her ultimate all move her around pretty well. If she ends up being underwhelming, adding in this function might help. If she's overwhelming, though, I think it might make her too easy to be...everywhere...

Jeddy017May 18, 20162 votes

I think they want players to use it in combination with the E. If you could cast it on yourself, players would probably just save it as an escape from a gank or a gap closer rather than a part of the rotation. Similar to how the ult doesn't do damage. If it did, players would just use it to snipe of targets rather than a roaming tool or a way to wall off enemies.

Plus using it on yourself keeps you from using the WE combo & taking away her overall damage.

BisaknospMay 19, 20162 votes

w/e i think she sucks hard mana cost on e is way too high and her damage is too unreliable all in/burst/mobility counter her completely and if she doesnt land a lucky w she is fucked simple as that

CaptanKrushnKillMay 20, 20162 votes

{quoted}

w/e i think she sucks hard mana cost on e is way too high and her damage is too unreliable all in/burst/mobility counter her completely and if she doesn't land a lucky w she is fucked simple as that

Taliyah is very, very, very poorly designed. A "mage" that quite literally deals no dmg. I get it that using Q gives you a quick burst, then you get to run away, but if that was the "combo" <cough cough> they built this champ around, and ofc it is, it just goes to show you how little riot understands league of legends.

Why play this mage, that does almost NO damage when you can play a real mage or bruiser and do consistent damage, and consistant damage is better than MS on a circle, bcoz a mofo ain't gonna try to 1v1 if he could lose.

But they will 1v1 a Taliyah even with infinite Q circles up, because once they catch Taliyah, Taliyah is dead.

Whatever ganja rito has access to must be hella dope.

BisaknospMay 20, 20161 votes

she actually deals decent damage but only if she hits her full combo thats really hard to do and her skillshots are easy to dodge she also has extremely hard problems dealing with tanks (like ziggs kind of) if perfectly played she can be kind of rewarding i guess but like is aid thats very hard to do

TheDelightedMay 19, 20161 votes

She enjoys riding rock (hard) things. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

ReZisT LustMay 19, 20161 votes

But what about that moment when zed ults you and you cast w on yourself to get him off? You'd just be easier to kill if u went flying with him.

RattleKnightMay 19, 20161 votes

Well, for zigg, the bomb fling the target in the direction of where the target vs the bomb. Where as taliah can control where she want the enemy to be landed no matter where they stand on the rock. If the enemy is already on her, casting on that ground would fling only the target away from her. If she can self cast, both her target and she will be flinge to the same direction. Zigg can be fling to the opposite direction of the enemy so he's cool with that.